Page 281 of 864 FirstFirst ... 181231271279280281282283291331381781 ... LastLast
Results 4,201 to 4,215 of 12952

Thread: Dion Waiters

  1. #4201
    Golden Shower Member Lee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Scottsdale
    Posts
    12,578
    Thanks
    4,231
    Thanked 6,963 Times in 2,096 Posts

    Default Re: Welcome Dion Waiters - LHLD

    Quote Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack View Post
    Continuing with the above comparison, let's analyze the numbers of some of the other former and present elite shooting guards 15 games into their rookie seasons.

    Per Game Averages:

    Dion Waiters
    31.9 minutes
    15.0 points (37.2% FG, 73.2% FT, 37.2% 3PT)
    2.9 assists
    2.2 rebounds
    1.3 steals
    1.7 Turnovers
    Team Record: 3-12


    ------------------


    Dwyane Wade
    Age: 21
    34.9 minutes
    13.5 points (37.6% FG, 73.6% FT, 21.1% 3PT)
    4.4 assists
    4.3 rebounds
    1.3 steals
    3.3 Turnovers
    Team Record: 5-10


    Russell Westbrook
    (technically a 1, but whatever...)
    Age: 20
    25.5 minutes
    12.1 points (33.3% FG, 83.6% FT, 26.9% 3PT)
    3.7 assists
    3.2 rebounds
    1.6 steals
    2.5 turnovers
    Team Record: 1-14


    Ray Allen
    Age: 21
    26.8 minutes
    12.7 points (44.6% FG, 76.1% FT, 35.6% 3PT)
    1.8 assists
    3.5 rebounds
    0.8 steals
    1.6 turnovers
    Team Record: 8-7


    James Harden
    Age: 20
    19.7 minutes
    8.9 points (38.7% FG, 87.5% FT, 38.0% 3PT)
    2.8 assists
    2.7 rebounds
    1.1 steals
    1.1 turnovers
    Team Record: 8-7


    Eric Gordon
    Age: 20
    17.0 minutes
    7.2 points (41.0% FG, 84.8% FT, 41.0% 3PT)
    1.6 assists
    1.3 rebounds
    1.1 steals
    1.3 turnovers
    Team Record: 2-13


    Manu Ginobili
    Age: 25
    18.8 minutes
    6.6 points (40.0% FG, 61.1% FT, 29.0% 3PT)
    1.6 assists
    2.1 rebounds
    1.2 steals
    1.5 turnovers
    Team Record: 9-6


    Andre Iguodala
    (more of a 3, but oh well)
    Age: 20
    30.4 minutes
    7.6 points (46.3% FG, 76.3% FT, 39.1% 3PT)
    2.4 assists
    5.9 rebounds
    1.8 steals
    1.5 turnovers
    Team Record: 6-9


    Joe Johnson
    Age: 20
    27.5 minutes
    8.9 points (47.9% FG, 71.4% FT, 27.5% 3PT)
    2.4 assists
    4.3 rebounds
    0.9 steals
    0.5 turnovers
    Team Record: 9-6


    Kobe Bryant
    Age: 18
    10.2 minutes
    5.1 points (40.7% FG, 72.7% FT, 48.1% 3PT)
    0.5 assists
    1.3 rebounds
    0.1 steals
    1.4 turnovers
    Team Record: 10-5


    Rip Hamilton
    Age: 21
    21.7 minutes
    10.6 points (40.9% FG, 83.3% FT, 33.3% 3PT)
    1.0 assists
    2.9 rebounds
    0.5 steals
    1.5 turnovers
    Team Record: 5-10







    Michael Jordan*
    Age: 21
    27.4 points (49.9% FG, 85.5% FT)
    4.5 assists
    6.0 rebounds
    Team Record: 7-8


    *Yikes



    ------------------

    Anyway, just got off working the late shift and figured I would throw this together just as a primer for many who don't really have much to compare such a young SG's numbers to (I was one prior to doing it). When looking at these names and statistics, I think Dion matches up pretty well.

    Obviously there were many different circumstances for a lot of these guys. For instance, Kobe at 18 and on a pretty good Lakers team isn't really a fair comparison. But, I'm just throwing the numbers out there.... Make of them what you will (which might be nothing at all).
    Thanks for proving he is not the next coming of Michael Jordan. Now I went from impressed with waiters to disappointed.

  2. #4202
    Redeux FiveThous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Raleigh NC
    Posts
    2,142
    Thanks
    2,203
    Thanked 1,213 Times in 569 Posts

    Default Re: Welcome Dion Waiters - LHLD

    What about paul pierce?
    "I'd rather fight somebody else on the other team than one of my teammates," Waiters said after practice. "That's the way it is. That's the way I was brought up. I feel as though we say we're family, then we're a family and I'm going to look out for you to the best of my abilities. All the other stuff is foolishness." - Dion Waiters

  3. #4203
    Logjammin' narbar32's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Cleveland
    Posts
    1,098
    Thanks
    2,269
    Thanked 2,587 Times in 573 Posts

    Default Re: Welcome Dion Waiters - LHLD

    Quote Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack View Post
    Obviously there were many different circumstances for a lot of these guys. For instance, Kobe at 18 and on a pretty good Lakers team isn't really a fair comparison. But, I'm just throwing the numbers out there.... Make of them what you will (which might be nothing at all).
    I appreciate your efforts in gathering these comparisons, but ultimately I don't know if you can make much of them, as you said. Minutes played, role, team composition, particularity of opponents, etc... just make it so difficult to draw any real conclusions from these types of stat comparisons.

    I just looked up a few less successful examples/comparisons, as a reference, just to satiate my own curiosity (and I didn't do it as well as you, admittedly):

    Randy Foye's first month in the NBA
    14 games
    14.6 mins/gm
    6.4 pts/gm
    1.6 rebs
    1.3 ast
    .418 FG%

    Extrapolated to Dion's 31.9 mins/gm (which is entirely unfair, but also kind of my point), Randy's at 13.98 pts/gm with better rebounding and assist numbers.

    Larry Hughes' first month
    13 games
    18.2 mins/gm
    9.5 pts/gm
    3.3 rebs
    1.2 asts
    .456 FG%

    At Dion's 31.9 mins/gm, Larry would be at 16.65 pts/gm

    Quentin Richardson's first month
    14 games
    16 mins/gm
    7.8 pts/gm
    3.3 rebs
    0.4 asts
    .424 FG%

    At Dion's minutes, Q would be at 15.55 pts/gm

    Obviously, just as you weren't saying Dion is going to be better or as good as all the elite players you listed, I'm not saying Dion is going to have a worse career than the players I listed.

    I think my only conclusion is the very obvious one (and readily cited around here) that it's hard to draw any firm conclusions from this small sample size, especially just looking at stats. Some players who have achieved some of the highest levels of success in the NBA have started off slow and some players have looked like they could play but just never developed enough to get to those same levels of success. One thing I will say from looking up a lot of these guys' numbers, in conjunction with what I've seen on the court: it appears that Dion belongs in the NBA. Guys like Foye, Hughes, and Q have all had up and down careers, but relatively long ones. It may not seem like much, but it's nice to feel confident that our #4 selection is a guy who can at least play in the NBA enough to be an asset, while still being able to realistically hope for success far beyond just that. There have been top 5 picks who never even got that far.

  4. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to narbar32 For This Useful Post:


  5. #4204
    Redeux FiveThous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Raleigh NC
    Posts
    2,142
    Thanks
    2,203
    Thanked 1,213 Times in 569 Posts

    Default Re: Welcome Dion Waiters - LHLD

    If we have a better shooting and stronger version of Larry Hughes are we really going to be upset about that?

    Ill take 18/5/5 from my starting 2 all day.
    "I'd rather fight somebody else on the other team than one of my teammates," Waiters said after practice. "That's the way it is. That's the way I was brought up. I feel as though we say we're family, then we're a family and I'm going to look out for you to the best of my abilities. All the other stuff is foolishness." - Dion Waiters

  6. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to FiveThous For This Useful Post:


  7. #4205
    Logjammin' narbar32's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Cleveland
    Posts
    1,098
    Thanks
    2,269
    Thanked 2,587 Times in 573 Posts

    Default Re: Welcome Dion Waiters - LHLD

    Quote Originally Posted by FiveThous View Post
    If we have a better shooting and stronger version of Larry Hughes are we really going to be upset about that?

    Ill take 18/5/5 from my starting 2 all day.
    No I wouldn't be upset about that, especially if Dion doesn't have the constant injury interruptions that Larry had.

    One concern, though, is that Dion isn't currently shooting any better than a young Larry Hughes -- you know, that guy who eventually caused fans to create a web page dedicated solely to telling him to stop shooting?

    Sample size, sample size, though.

  8. #4206
    Veteran Czvosec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Athens, OH/KC, MO
    Posts
    5,760
    Thanks
    2,371
    Thanked 5,310 Times in 1,884 Posts

    Default Re: Welcome Dion Waiters - LHLD

    David Thorpe's rookie rankings came out today. Has Dion 12th or 13th (can't remember exactly). Here's what he said:

    "Waiters still looks like a more dribble-happy version of Marcus Thornton with a bigger upside. His raw numbers looked good against the Magic — he scored 25 points and dished out 5 assists with no turnovers. But I counted him shooting 3-for-10 on bad shots, meaning he missed seven times when he had far better options than what he chose: step-back 3s with time on the clock, a one-on-three transition drive and “hope” shot, and forced long jumpers.

    During Cleveland’s recent five-game stretch, he made five shots per game and missed 12 per game, which is tough to swallow when Cleveland lost four of those games by close margins. If Waiters learns the value of good shot selection, he’ll see his shooting percentages go up while his team wins more games.”
    Boy its great to trash results without context, isn't it? Now, I realize that Thorpe's results should be taken with a grain of salt considering he's on the payroll of some of these players (remember when he said Tristan would be the 2nd rookie taken in a re-draft? Even the most homerific of Cavs fans would scoff at that), but... well, I lost my train of thought. So I'll just copy and paste what I wrote over at Cavs: The Blog.

    "In regards to the “more dribble-happy Marcus Thornton” comment, frankly, I find that absurd considering I’ve never seen a player who appears to love dribbling more than Thornton does. And while Dion may sometimes take some ill-advised shots (for which I can’t really blame him given that, with Irving out, he’s really the only player that can effectively create for himself), he’s a better facilitator than Thornton ever has been.

    Also, these rankings are dumb, and pointless, and dumb. We’re a month into the season."

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to Czvosec For This Useful Post:


  10. #4207
    Logjammin' narbar32's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Cleveland
    Posts
    1,098
    Thanks
    2,269
    Thanked 2,587 Times in 573 Posts

    Default Re: Welcome Dion Waiters - LHLD

    Quote Originally Posted by Czvosec View Post
    David Thorpe's rookie rankings came out today. Has Dion 12th or 13th (can't remember exactly). Here's what he said:



    Boy its great to trash results without context, isn't it? Now, I realize that Thorpe's results should be taken with a grain of salt considering he's on the payroll of some of these players (remember when he said Tristan would be the 2nd rookie taken in a re-draft? Even the most homerific of Cavs fans would scoff at that), but... well, I lost my train of thought. So I'll just copy and paste what I wrote over at Cavs: The Blog.

    "In regards to the “more dribble-happy Marcus Thornton” comment, frankly, I find that absurd considering I’ve never seen a player who appears to love dribbling more than Thornton does. And while Dion may sometimes take some ill-advised shots (for which I can’t really blame him given that, with Irving out, he’s really the only player that can effectively create for himself), he’s a better facilitator than Thornton ever has been.

    Also, these rankings are dumb, and pointless, and dumb. We’re a month into the season."
    I can understand taking shots at Thorpe because of how off the wall he may occasionally get and I can also even understand taking issue with where he's ranked Dion amongst rookies, but this is the second time now I can remember thinking he really didn't seem too far off in terms of what he actually has to say about Dion so far.

    I don't think "Marcus Thornton with higher upside" is either all that damning nor is it even close to the most absurd comparisons I've heard for Dion. And lack of surrounding talent can only go so far in excusing poor shot selection. Sure, he's bearing a lot of the scoring load, with and especially without Kyrie, but he still takes far more of those shots Thorpe has described than I'm comfortable with. I think too many of his shots are at the expense of better shots. An early shot clock, pull up, contested 3 is typically not a good shot, regardless of supporting cast, and he's taking them. He can get where he wants on the court pretty well, but too frequently settles rather than looking for a better opportunity. Those are problems that are neither unique for young scoring guards nor are they ALWAYS at the expense of the things he's doing well, but they're areas in need of improvement nonetheless.

    And I agree wholeheartedly with Thorpe in that if Dion learns to better differentiate a good shot from a bad shot, and takes them accordingly, his numbers and this team's overall success rate will improve.

  11. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to narbar32 For This Useful Post:


  12. #4208
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    8,626
    Thanks
    4,586
    Thanked 8,634 Times in 3,213 Posts

    Default Re: Welcome Dion Waiters - LHLD

    Quote Originally Posted by FiveThous View Post
    If we have a better shooting and stronger version of Larry Hughes are we really going to be upset about that?

    Ill take 18/5/5 from my starting 2 all day.
    Larry Hughes was never a terrible player. He was horribly miscast here as a point guard, though, and that was obviously a Mike Brown/Danny Ferry decision. He also had a damning tendency to dribble in two steps and jack up a mid-ranger from just outside the free throw line with 18 seconds left on the shot clock that he somehow managed to miss every single time. Actually, that mid-ranger was probably about 90% of the reason I hated him.

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to Jack Brickman For This Useful Post:


  14. #4209
    Situational Stopper B3team's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    282
    Thanks
    1,688
    Thanked 259 Times in 99 Posts

    Default Re: Welcome Dion Waiters - LHLD

    Quote Originally Posted by narbar32 View Post
    I can understand taking shots at Thorpe because of how off the wall he may occasionally get and I can also even understand taking issue with where he's ranked Dion amongst rookies, but this is the second time now I can remember thinking he really didn't seem too far off in terms of what he actually has to say about Dion so far.

    I don't think "Marcus Thornton with higher upside" is either all that damning nor is it even close to the most absurd comparisons I've heard for Dion. And lack of surrounding talent can only go so far in excusing poor shot selection. Sure, he's bearing a lot of the scoring load, with and especially without Kyrie, but he still takes far more of those shots Thorpe has described than I'm comfortable with. I think too many of his shots are at the expense of better shots. An early shot clock, pull up, contested 3 is typically not a good shot, regardless of supporting cast, and he's taking them. He can get where he wants on the court pretty well, but too frequently settles rather than looking for a better opportunity. Those are problems that are neither unique for young scoring guards nor are they ALWAYS at the expense of the things he's doing well, but they're areas in need of improvement nonetheless.

    And I agree wholeheartedly with Thorpe in that if Dion learns to better differentiate a good shot from a bad shot, and takes them accordingly, his numbers and this team's overall success rate will improve.
    agreed. I still don't understand how anyone in the NBA is allowed by their coach to take a contested 3 pt shot early in the shot clock. There is no excuse for it. It doesn't make sense because that shot will still be there at the end of the shot clock, why not try to move the ball around first and if all else fails then launch the low percentage 3 ball? Byron Scott should immediately pull Waiters out every time he shoots a contested 3 early in the clock.

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to B3team For This Useful Post:


  16. #4210
    Private eyes, Watchin You Tornicade IED's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Columbus, oh
    Posts
    7,585
    Thanks
    2,013
    Thanked 4,713 Times in 2,074 Posts

    Default Re: Welcome Dion Waiters - LHLD

    allI know is I wanted an eric gordon type player for this team and we now have one.

  17. #4211
    Savior of Humanity InBoobieWeTrust's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    14,499
    Thanks
    5,915
    Thanked 5,130 Times in 1,403 Posts

    Default Re: Welcome Dion Waiters - LHLD

    Dion's much stronger, much more physical, and a much better defender than Thorton. He's got a better NBA frame as well. That's why I have confidence in him becoming a good player rather than just another gunner from the bench.

  18. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to InBoobieWeTrust For This Useful Post:


  19. #4212
    T-Squared Fan Club ImWithDan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    1,207
    Thanks
    394
    Thanked 1,592 Times in 497 Posts

    Default Re: Welcome Dion Waiters - LHLD

    People need to understand that Dion's shot selection has been adversely affected by Kyrie's injury.

    Someone has to fill the scoring void and it's pretty clear (to me) that Dion is just trying to do a little too much on the offensive end.

    While some might argue Scott should pull him aside, it's largely a function of:

    A.) having the ball in his hands more than normal.
    B.) no one else on the roster being able to score.

    When Kyrie facilitates more of the offense, Dion gets put in better positons.....both in catch and shoot situations and catch and slash. I think Byron understands that.

    There will come a time when Dion will have to be a little more judicious with his shot attempts....but on a 3-12 team? With the best player injured? I'm just not that concerned.

    Let him take his lumps and adjust accordingly. It is part of learning how to play in the NBA. I have faith that Scott and co. are using film from this stretch to encourage Dion to be a little more selective.
    Last edited by ImWithDan; 11-29-2012 at 06:37 PM.

  20. #4213
    Columbus Goat 3 Da Hard Way's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    5,556
    Thanks
    1,239
    Thanked 4,308 Times in 939 Posts

    Default Re: Welcome Dion Waiters - LHLD



  21. #4214
    Team Player cavsfanclanman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Akron, OH
    Posts
    914
    Thanks
    1,000
    Thanked 710 Times in 217 Posts

    Default Re: Welcome Dion Waiters - LHLD

    I think Dion's really matured in the last 6 months, seeing him in interviews and just the way he presents self makes me think he has the right attitude. The shooting percentage is a bummer, but since he's the perceived as the best wing on the court (with kyrie out) he's been getting double teamed most of the times he touches the ball now. I think not having another threat on the floor is really making it difficult for him. However, I think he'll figure it out. He's not playing the "the shot just didn't fall my way" card, he's saying "I need to do better". That's a heathy attitude for him. Still, the rest of his game has really been good for rookie I think. His passing, and play making has potential to be great, and he has good instincts on defense.

    Overall I'm very happy with this guy. The situation he's in is a weird one, but I think it will be beneficial in the end. Rookies have ups and downs. Oddly enough, he'll probably have a game here soon where he makes more than 50% and scores over 25, and people will say he's playing better, but the shots just might be dropping that night. I really do think he'll get used to the speed of the game, the ability of the defenders and where his shots are...he's a gamer.

  22. The Following User Says Thank You to cavsfanclanman For This Useful Post:


  23. #4215
    Private eyes, Watchin You Tornicade IED's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Columbus, oh
    Posts
    7,585
    Thanks
    2,013
    Thanked 4,713 Times in 2,074 Posts

    Default Re: Welcome Dion Waiters - LHLD

    Waiters is typically very smooth and fast bringin the ball up the court. except the last two games. ultimate result the cavs scored 30 less points.

    Waiters can really make the offense go

    and this isnt about pg/sg in the Cavs offense both guards are responsible to bring the ball up the court. so im not suggesting he should run the offense but that he is very good at bringing up the ball at a fast pace.

    the guy just has a good stride.

    What we saw in memphis was Tony allen playing a full court press to slow him down. then in phoenix he just seemed to not have that gear.

    Teams are now zeroing in on Waiters. they are taking away his spot 3's everyone is complainng about because he is damn good at them.

    although pargo has done a decent job he really doesnt set up the offense to allow Dion to do much off the ball even if he wanted to. AV taking point at the top of the key while effeective just isnt something that can be done every time down the court.

    A problem with the half court offense is that guys are going in meeting a wall then kicking it out to the line. Without Irving in there. Waiters should be getting fed on the opposite high post. Ive seent hem try it a couple times but the timing is really off mostly because the kick out is a bail out play and another is because the 2nd man getting the ball toward the weak side outer area holds the ball and forces dion to come to that side of the court.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •