Dion Waiters (All-Rookie First Team)

[Gimme Some Mo]

Larry Hughes never even cracked the 25% barrier from 3 his first 4 seasons in the NBA. He averaged 1.5 assists his first 2 years in the NBA. He averaged 9.5 ppg his first 2 seasons. I also think Dion is a superior defender to a young Hughes.

Again, I am talking about Larry Hughes in Cleveland. Obviously, Dion is far ahead of rookie Larry Hughes.

I don't think it's a terrible comparison, but it's very simplified. I think he's a better shooter than Hughes - it's just that he (Dion) takes bad shots. It also seems to me that Dion is far better at getting in the lane and distributing the ball than Hughes.

A of right now, Dion is not a better shooter than Hughes was in Cleveland. Dion's shooting %'s are terrible. Will they improve with better shot selection? Of course..... but so would have Hughes'.

[Numbers Guy]

Larry Hughes was a slasher, though.. Dion's really not.

They're both bricking contested shots, defending, passing at a decent clip .. that makes them the same player?

[MDLT]

Again, I am talking about Larry Hughes in Cleveland. Obviously, Dion is far ahead of rookie Larry Hughes.



A of right now, Dion is not a better shooter than Hughes was in Cleveland. Dion's shooting %'s are terrible. Will they improve with better shot selection? Of course..... but so would have Hughes'.

I just think Hughes had a low percentage primarily b/c he was a bad shooter, whereas it seems Dion is a low-percentage shooter primarily b/c he takes bad shots. Obviously, Dion is not a great shooter but I think he's better than Larry.

More than anything though, Dion must avoid Hughes' uncanny ability to get injured.

[Randolphkeys]

I don't know if it was posted, but a nice video just went up on NBA.com two days ago:

http://www.nba.com/video/channels/nb...ks-waiters.nba

[Manoovi]

Larry Hughes was a slasher, though.. Dion's really not.

Just hearing those words makes me cringe even to this day...

[Tornicade]

Seeing Dion's play without Kyrie compared to his time with him I am beginning to think they are not terribly compatible.

Dion has been far more engaged in the game (even with his poor shooting) without Kyrie on the floor with him than he really ever was with him.

Now that he is more of a primary ball handler there is less standing around on the 3 pt line watching Kyrie just waiting for a pass to fire something up.

He works harder now to get into the lane, and it has brought his passing out.

I am not saying that can't ever learn to play together, but the team's ball movement and overall movement on that side of the ball have been light years ahead of where they were before the injury.

I would prefer to see Dion continue what he has been doing and Kyrie adapt when he gets back than going back to the way things were pre-injury.

We didn't realize it at the time because we thought it as just that his teammates sucked, but Kyrie had become somewhat of a ball-stopper on offense.

Now that we know they are capable of at least being decent/competitive, it is important Scott demand more accountability from Kyrie as far as keeping the offense moving the way Dion/Pargo have in his absence.

how about we let Irving and Waiters share a backcourt for more than 10 games before we decide if their compatible or not.

Right now you have two guys in the back court who can draw double teams.

In a small Sample Irving is already getting more assisted shots this year indicating that he is working on moving without the ball. There hasnt been any indication that Irving and Dion isnt compatible together. if anything it was galaringly obvious last year Dion is exactly the type of backcourt mate Irving needs.

Also the offense is not better. the team is improving which they would do with or without Irving.If anything irvings absence just demonstrates that this is a team and not a one man show

et (Per 100 Poss)
Rk	Lineup	Tm	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	eFG%	FTA	FT%	PTS	TRB%	AST	STL
1	A. Gee | K. Irving | T. Thompson | A. Varejao | D. Waiters	CLE	178:59	+4.2	+11.3	-.011	+1.4	-5.0	+.150	-.008	+7.4	-.032	+14.7	+14.7	-5.3	+3.2
2	A. Gee | J. Pargo | T. Thompson | A. Varejao | D. Waiters	CLE	98:49	-1.6	+5.1	-.042	+1.0	+4.7	-.061	-.040	+0.3	+.221	+2.7	+7.8	-1.4	+0.6

[Birdy89]

how about we let Irving and Waiters share a backcourt for more than 10 games before we decide if their compatible or not.

Right now you have two guys in the back court who can draw double teams.

In a small Sample Irving is already getting more assisted shots this year indicating that he is working on moving without the ball. There hasnt been any indication that Irving and Dion isnt compatible together. if anything it was galaringly obvious last year Dion is exactly the type of backcourt mate Irving needs.

Also the offense is not better. the team is improving which they would do with or without Irving.If anything irvings absence just demonstrates that this is a team and not a one man show

et (Per 100 Poss)
Rk	Lineup	Tm	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	eFG%	FTA	FT%	PTS	TRB%	AST	STL
1	A. Gee | K. Irving | T. Thompson | A. Varejao | D. Waiters	CLE	178:59	+4.2	+11.3	-.011	+1.4	-5.0	+.150	-.008	+7.4	-.032	+14.7	+14.7	-5.3	+3.2
2	A. Gee | J. Pargo | T. Thompson | A. Varejao | D. Waiters	CLE	98:49	-1.6	+5.1	-.042	+1.0	+4.7	-.061	-.040	+0.3	+.221	+2.7	+7.8	-1.4	+0.6

Watch the games a little instead of playing with computer statistics.

To anyone who has watched the games (and not box scores) since Kyrie has been hurt, the ball movement with this team is night and day. That doesn't show up in your computer simulations, but it does when you watch the games.

It is not coincidence the bench started to shows signs of life only when Kyrie got hurt.

Everyone is involved out there and the ball is moving. That gets those guys in the flow of the game, and it is why they haven't looked so inept.

There are alot of intangible things that have been happening out there your spread sheet isn't going to see.

[Baseline Runner]

Hate to express the concern but of the back court duo, maybe Kyrie is the guy we should be more worried about at this point, not Dion. Always injured, no defense, role players playing better without him on the court. I just hope he is not a fool's gold type of player, someone who puts up great numbers but doesn't really improve the team.

[Tornicade]

Watch the games a little instead of playing with computer statistics.

To anyone who has watched the games (and not box scores) since Kyrie has been hurt, the ball movement with this team is night and day. That doesn't show up in your computer simulations, but it does when you watch the games.

It is not coincidence the bench started to shows signs of life only when Kyrie got hurt.

Everyone is involved out there and the ball is moving. That gets those guys in the flow of the game, and it is why they haven't looked so inept.

There are alot of intangible things that have been happening out there your spread sheet isn't going to see.

I have watched every game. Dions ability to bring up the ball was being displayed from his first game on. yes the team did sometime tend to watch irving but that was a the team as a whole. Andy is doing the same things he was before Irving got hurt. facillitating from the high post.

the teama s a whole is improving they were improving with Irving on the court. This isnt a bunch of veterans or even a situation like the knicks when carmelo got hurt and the team played beetter. this is a young team growing and one that will be better when irving returns to the court.


it isnt dion vs kyrie like your making it out to see its dion and kyrie vs the NBa and teams were already getting scared when the lineup was spanking brand new and considerbly much rawer.


I dont base my conclusions on stats. I support my conclusions with stats. theres a key difference.

are irving and Waiters going to have some growing pains? absolutely.

I just bought a house.. its rather financially favorable.so maybe i can start posting with actual video. Cavs and their fans have better things to do than chasing phantoms. theres enough real things they need to work on than to manufacture them.

The team playing well without Irving is a good thing. no need to try and twist it into a bad thing.

[Frank Reynolds]

Hate to express the concern but of the back court duo, maybe Kyrie is the guy we should be more worried about at this point, not Dion. Always injured, no defense, role players playing better without him on the court. I just hope he is not a fool's gold type of player, someone who puts up great numbers but doesn't really improve the team.

One of his biggest knocks coming out was that he sometimes got too caught up in his ability to dribble the basketball. I think he's such a natural scorer too and it's easy to fall in love with your ability to humiliate the opponent, which he's admittedly enjoys doing. The Rookie Sophmore game was really incredible, and I think that's a side of him that nobody could have seen coming (the Larry Bird like jumpshot that was going in before he even elevated and took the shot). His confidence is impressive to say the least, he's athletic enough, but what separates him from the rest is his calm and confidence. He can make it happen.

He seems like the type that will try to outscore you, rather than stop you, because that's in his benefit. But he's killing our defense so badly than it's diminishing his effect on the court. If he can bulk up, take some calcium supplements, lift weights, improve his bone density, etc his presence would be magnified so much more on the court. He's killed people on the court his whole life becaue of talent and skill with a solid athletic base. If he were to build his body like MJ he could be incredible in the future. The ability to take the pounding in the post, on his acrobatic dives to the hoop he'd be so much less susceptible to injuries. (does that even make sense)

I guess what im sayin is, he's athletic enough. If he put on some quality mass, he could become a serviceable defender. Despite him being around 6-3 6-4, he doesn't seem to have that Gary Payton style nasty streak to harass people on defense. Kyries too talented, he doesn't want to get his hands dirty. If he accepts the challenge, who knows, in the future it's not out of the realm to think that he has the ability to become the very best PG in the league, it's within the realm of possibility. Does he want it? or is he blessed with enough talent already and he'll coast on it. Shall be interesting to see. Kyrie and Dion can learn a thing from one another. Dion teach Kyrie how to stick to your man like a fly trap, and Kyrie teaches Dion how to put some special sauce on his finishes around the rim.

[Baseline Runner]

One of his biggest knocks coming out was that he sometimes got too caught up in his ability to dribble the basketball. I think he's such a natural scorer too and it's easy to fall in love with your ability to humiliate the opponent, which he's admittedly enjoys doing. The Rookie Sophmore game was really incredible, and I think that's a side of him that nobody could have seen coming (the Larry Bird like jumpshot that was going in before he even elevated and took the shot). His confidence is impressive to say the least, he's athletic enough, but what separates him from the rest is his calm and confidence. He can make it happen.

He seems like the type that will try to outscore you, rather than stop you, because that's in his benefit. But he's killing our defense so badly than it's diminishing his effect on the court. If he can bulk up, take some calcium supplements, lift weights, improve his bone density, etc his presence would be magnified so much more on the court. He's killed people on the court his whole life becaue of talent and skill with a solid athletic base. If he were to build his body like MJ he could be incredible in the future. The ability to take the pounding in the post, on his acrobatic dives to the hoop he'd be so much less susceptible to injuries. (does that even make sense)

I guess what im sayin is, he's athletic enough. If he put on some quality mass, he could become a serviceable defender. Despite him being around 6-3 6-4, he doesn't seem to have that Gary Payton style nasty streak to harass people on defense. Kyries too talented, he doesn't want to get his hands dirty. If he accepts the challenge, who knows, in the future it's not out of the realm to think that he has the ability to become the very best PG in the league, it's within the realm of possibility. Does he want it? or is he blessed with enough talent already and he'll coast on it. Shall be interesting to see. Kyrie and Dion can learn a thing from one another. Dion teach Kyrie how to stick to your man like a fly trap, and Kyrie teaches Dion how to put some special sauce on his finishes around the rim.

Yeah Kyrie doesn't need to be a great defender just an average one.

[Chris]

Good news: guy can score and defend.

Bad news: it takes him a million shots to score.

[Pioneer10]

[Lottery God]

That's an elite first step right there. He went from a slow jog speed around the perimeter to a fast pace while turning at a 90-degree angle in one step. The two defenders he spit had no time to react.

[MYoung23]

Watch the games a little instead of playing with computer statistics.

To anyone who has watched the games (and not box scores) since Kyrie has been hurt, the ball movement with this team is night and day. That doesn't show up in your computer simulations, but it does when you watch the games.

It is not coincidence the bench started to shows signs of life only when Kyrie got hurt.

Everyone is involved out there and the ball is moving. That gets those guys in the flow of the game, and it is why they haven't looked so inept.

There are alot of intangible things that have been happening out there your spread sheet isn't going to see.

It really hasnt.

There are some guys starting to make shots that didnt when Irving was playing. That's about it.