Page 295 of 973 FirstFirst ... 195245285293294295296297305345395795 ... LastLast
Results 4,411 to 4,425 of 14587

Thread: Dion Waiters

  1. #4411
    ~
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    20,425
    Thanks
    2,818
    Thanked 5,862 Times in 2,489 Posts

    Default Re: Welcome Dion Waiters - LHLD

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus View Post
    Clearly a 9 foot rim...maybe even 8'.
    Always gotta wonder about gym photos, but my attempt at measuring the photo (which is of course grossly inaccurate as is eyeballing it) came up with 9.5' ... so I'm going with Myth Plausible!

    In either case, thanks for sharing the info and story, Frank.

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to Jon For This Useful Post:


  3. #4412
    Birthing All-Stars Free Agency God's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Space
    Posts
    4,328
    Thanks
    8,357
    Thanked 4,564 Times in 1,553 Posts

    Default Re: Welcome Dion Waiters - LHLD

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus View Post
    Clearly a 9 foot rim...maybe even 8'.
    If that's the case, then it's also clear that he's a munchkin.

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to Free Agency God For This Useful Post:


  5. #4413
    Birthing All-Stars Free Agency God's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Space
    Posts
    4,328
    Thanks
    8,357
    Thanked 4,564 Times in 1,553 Posts

    Default Re: Welcome Dion Waiters - LHLD

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Reynolds View Post
    I'm going to agree with you here Jon. Take it from someone who has personally spent months training and researching what it takes to have huge hops. It's obvious from looking at Dion that he's built like a bull. I don't think Dion is lacking in the strength department at all. He is lacking the proper approach to the target that would allow for an excellent takeoff using a one legged jump. I don't think Dion is as explosive as Wade, whose spent a lot of time with Tim Grover honing the quickness and reaction aspect of his athleticism.

    Dion's priority should be to shed off any unnecessary weight that's holding him down, and then work on his quickness, reaction time and plyometric or reversal strength.


    Try this Jon, act like you are going to throw a baseball in from the outfield....... actually simulate the throwing motion at your computer desk.

    Now, notice what you unconsciously did, you wound the arm back and were ready to let her fly. Now, take the reversal strength aspect out of it and try to throw using only a forward throwing motion. No rearing back and charging up that arm. What you will obviously find is you are lacking some serious power if one side of the equation is weaker than the other. The equation for muscular power is strength/speed. It's why you might see some kid with beanpole legs springing around the gym with a kangaroo. Those kinds that are natural leapers almost always are best off working on their strength deficit.

    Your local meat head that is squatting 500 lbs at the gym is certainly not lacking any strength in the legs, but he's also probably not throwing down any dunks either. That's because he needs to work on his quickness, explosion, acceleration and reversal work, the opposite side of the equation.

    When you see all these people jumping on the plyometric boxes, many times they don't really know what the function of plyo strength really is. So you are intentionally jumping off these boxes and sticking the landing like a ballerina very gracefully. You are basically trying to teach your body to catch the downward momentum of the fall. Now, go back to our baseball throw example and you will understand that plyometrics are training the eccentric, rearing back motion, only this time with the legs. You are getting the legs charged up, and just like when you wound the arm back to throw the ball, you are winding the legs to throw your body into the air.

    Training with weights is really only training our forward throwing motion (or concentric motion). It's not to say it's not important, because it really is. The more strength the better, but it has to be augmented with training the opposite, eccentric, winding back motion.

    Here's two photos of me in my jumping hey day.






    The biggest breakthrough for me personally, was learning how to perfect my approach to the basket. You can make a lot of strange mistakes in your gathering steps and it will ultimately result in a sub par jump. I used to target the rim and jump to it, rather than to aim higher than the rim. I probably missed 1000 dunks before I got one to go down, but once I understood the approach to the basket, things improved for me rapidly.

    I studied tape of this guy who was a 5'11 high jump champion at Clemson. He really scientifically broke down the one legged and two legged approaches and the differences between them. The one thing that they both have in common is that every step needs to be an acceleration towards an even quicker step, ultimately resulting in your quickest step, which is known as the penultimate step or your launch step.

    It took me a couple weeks to really internalize how this should look, and diagnose what I was doing wrong in my approach. I use a two footed takeoff, so it's a little different than Dion, but I am seeing what Waiters is doing, and I know that it's a fixable issue, only it's not easy. It takes a lot of diligence and studying tapes of yourself to identify the flaws in your form.



    Notice how every step got a little quicker and he ultimately had the quickest step when he exploded up through the basket. That is how you get maximal height: every step needs to be faster than the last one.

    Truth be told, I only ever dunked maybe 3-4 times in my day. I'm 5'11 but the first time that I finally dunked, it wasn't no just barely sneak the ball over the rim rudimentary white guy dunk. No no, once I got the run-up down pat, I caught this alley oop bounce from my friend and threw the fuck down. It was a true slam dunk, and there was no doubt in my mind that I finally did it.

    I see a shitload of athletic potential in Dion that he's not hitting consistently. He'll wow you every once and a while, but it seems more like a fluke than anything. I believe if Dion really started working on his quickness, plyometric strength and his technique leading into his jumps we'd all be witnessing that Dwyane Wade athleticism that he has inside somewhere.
    That was the best post I've ever read from you. You nailed the physics of the vertical. It's all about power and gaining power from the eccentric although weightlifting does train the eccentric because you have to fight against the weight going down, which is an eccentric movement. I'm a very strong dude, but my power is pitifully low because I can't gather my strength fast enough to have high power. I'm on that other end of the spectrum that you talk about. I have a buddy who is the same way or even worse, and he even looks like he should be fast, but he's terribly slow.

    To elaborate upon what you said, the eccentric portion of the "gathering" of the jump loads the muscles with tension so as to create a spring-like effect. A lot of guys who try to get their dumbbell bench up actually have dumbbell holders from which they can unrack the dumbbells so that they can use the eccentric portion of the movement to gain more strength because the muscles are already loaded by the time they start doing the concentric portion of the movement whereas, if they start from the bottom of the movement because they had to put the dumbbells on their knees, swing'em back onto their chest, and start at the bottom of the movement, they're a lot weaker.

    As for Dion, he still isn't super lean, but decently lean. I think he could lose a tad bit more fat, but I actually wouldn't mind seeing him put a little bit more muscle on a la Wade/Maggette/LeBron/Iguodala/Fisher.

    Concerning his vertical, we've all seen how the NBA has turned great athletes into utterly ridiculous athletes even after putting on weight. Some guys just take it to the next level. For example, Wade came into the league with a 36" vertical. He was never tested and his results listed publicly afterward, but I think it's safe to say that, even after putting on weight, he definitely increased his vertical. Dwight Howard's physical transformation was even more impressive. he put on 45 POUNDS, going from 240 to 285, and his vertical went from 35 inches to 40. Players can definitely increase their athletic potential at the NBA level, and I think that Dion could take advantage of that. I think he has the athleticism to be an in-traffic dunker a la Wade. He just needs to get more comfortable and keep on working on getting stronger and faster.

    I know for a fact that it's complete bull-shit that you can't teach a higher vertical. With the right training, anyone can improve their vertical (sometimes dramatically). Dion is likely closer to his max vertical, but I wouldn't put it past him to add 5 more inches like a lot of guys have in the league. If Howard can add 5 inches to his vertical while adding 45 lbs, I think Dion can do it while adding 10 lbs or staying the same weight.

  6. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Free Agency God For This Useful Post:


  7. #4414
    Co-Owner Paddy's Pub Frank Reynolds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Somewhere in Philly
    Posts
    2,496
    Thanks
    4,572
    Thanked 2,784 Times in 946 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus View Post
    Clearly a 9 foot rim...maybe even 8'.
    I don't know why an institutional gym would bother to mount 9 ft hoops in their facility bolted through the ceiling. Ill upload some footage I have, with some other big jumps that are not from the basketball courts and you'll understand,
    and you can judge for yourself. Also have some awesome shooting footage from the gun range....I know you support those kinds of things Maximus.





    here you go Maximus

    still don't believe me?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yf9aqG7Vl_A
    Last edited by Frank Reynolds; 12-18-2012 at 06:39 PM. Reason: Max called me out, I rebuttal him

  8. #4415
    Team Player red.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    1,343
    Thanks
    3,947
    Thanked 409 Times in 171 Posts

    Default Re: Welcome Dion Waiters - LHLD

    I'm glad Dion's back tonight.

  9. #4416
    Co-Owner Paddy's Pub Frank Reynolds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Somewhere in Philly
    Posts
    2,496
    Thanks
    4,572
    Thanked 2,784 Times in 946 Posts

    Default Re: Welcome Dion Waiters - LHLD

    I just think it's interesting that the fans of Cleveland noticed something fishy on Dion's takeoff to the hoop. Once he improves his approach to the basket, and stops jumping from that far out he'll be fine. You have to have some serious upper body strength to hang in the air and finish, I think he's still outgrowing all that baby fat and acclimating to the new style of play, and new body he's grown into.

    I think when all is said and done, Dion will be a very effective slasher and finisher around the basket. Plus he can always go unconscious from deep and hang 30-40pts on you, on those nights where everything goes right for him. (Clippers game) His slashing will also got him to the free throw line, once he learns how to draw the calls from the referees.


    I'm excited..... I have come a long way from draft night, where I wanted to puke when his fatass got onstage and put on a Cleveland hat for the first time. Dion's gonna be alright....
    Last edited by Frank Reynolds; 12-18-2012 at 06:28 PM. Reason: 5th grade teacher would be appalled by my shit grammar

  10. #4417
    BANNED Maximus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Mentor
    Posts
    17,136
    Thanks
    5,538
    Thanked 26,560 Times in 4,017 Posts

    Default Re: Welcome Dion Waiters - LHLD

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Reynolds View Post
    still don't believe me?
    Never doubted you in the first place...twas a joke. That said, damn, you are a worse finisher around the hoop than than Dion.

  11. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Maximus For This Useful Post:


  12. #4418
    Rising Back Up chrisrich91's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    7,134
    Thanks
    8,427
    Thanked 10,837 Times in 2,745 Posts

    Default Re: Welcome Dion Waiters - LHLD

    Dion's return from 8 games off?

    This is going to be a catastrophe. He won't trust his ankle, he'll be out of game shape, he'll throw Kyrie off his game, and his return will cause CJ to fall back into a slump.

    Tonight is gonna get ugly.

  13. #4419
    Birthing All-Stars Free Agency God's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Space
    Posts
    4,328
    Thanks
    8,357
    Thanked 4,564 Times in 1,553 Posts

    Default Re: Welcome Dion Waiters - LHLD

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrich91 View Post
    Dion's return from 8 games off?

    This is going to be a catastrophe. He won't trust his ankle, he'll be out of game shape, he'll throw Kyrie off his game, and his return will cause CJ to fall back into a slump.

    Tonight is gonna get ugly.
    Wishful tanking.

  14. #4420
    So we come to it at last Chris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    22,982
    Thanks
    6,682
    Thanked 8,049 Times in 3,424 Posts

    Default Re: Welcome Dion Waiters - LHLD

    How's he looking tonight? Just now turned it on.
    The artist formerly known as cmstophe

  15. #4421
    Veteran shoes22's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    7,418
    Thanks
    4,396
    Thanked 4,414 Times in 1,760 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    How's he looking tonight? Just now turned it on.
    Still taking a lot of questionable shots.

  16. #4422
    Cincinatti Bengals fan Kizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    2,048
    Thanks
    19
    Thanked 581 Times in 310 Posts

    Default Re: Welcome Dion Waiters - LHLD

    Dion has a problem that I have. Simply jumps too far out. We get so enamered in the fact that we can MAKE that jump and get to the rim, but dont want to admit that by the time were close enough to the rim weve lost power in the jump and ANY contact at all will likely cost a miss. Its very fixable....all it is really is taking an extra dribble or taking a longer step. If he started his jumps ONE step closer I guaruntee that would lead to more of his paint shots going in because we can all see he has pretty decent touch around the basket. Iv had times where I start my jump too far out and when someone meets me at the rim I get totally destroyed or affected too much....but when iv purposely taken like one or two extra steps and started my layup closer you start to see that you will like kinda bounce off guys when they go for the block. Bad thing for me on the note is Dion is 6 4 and im 5 6. So even when I do get a strong jump off and move somebody out the paint I still have to worry about long arms coming and blocking me.

    I got raped once though.lol I tried jumping from like a step after the FT line on a layup once cause I thought I was sweet cause I scored on this dude in the paint once before and I jumped and he met me at the rim and demolished me. I couldnt even cry foul because it was such a stupid try.lol

  17. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Kizzle For This Useful Post:


  18. #4423
    you wot m8? PosterTime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Cleveland OHIO
    Posts
    1,274
    Thanks
    1,272
    Thanked 773 Times in 304 Posts

    Default Re: Welcome Dion Waiters - LHLD

    I actually thought he had much more focus on attacking the basket tonight. He didn't finish well and didn't make free throws at a great clip, but he did not settle for 3-after-3 early on. The only way he's going to learn how to finish is by attacking!

  19. The Following User Says Thank You to PosterTime For This Useful Post:


  20. #4424
    Veteran Real Deal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    The 216
    Posts
    6,371
    Thanks
    1,026
    Thanked 1,706 Times in 793 Posts

    Default Re: Welcome Dion Waiters - LHLD

    So uhhh, how does it make you feel that DW is shooting under 35% from the field? Very concerning. This is worst than the guy I hate most named Larry Hughes.


    It's basketball time at the Q! -Bring back Joe Tait

  21. #4425
    So we come to it at last Chris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    22,982
    Thanks
    6,682
    Thanked 8,049 Times in 3,424 Posts

    Default Re: Welcome Dion Waiters - LHLD

    Yeah, he's pretty dreadful it seems ..
    The artist formerly known as cmstophe

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •