Dion Waiters (All-Rookie First Team)

[Silky Smooth]

Jason Lloyd seems to think Dion wasn't too happy.

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Jason Lloyd
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Waiters not happy with new role, but won't complain about it either

Four times in less than 3 minutes, Waiters in some form referenced "just playing hard" and "doing whatever my team needs me to do."

But his body language said he isn't happy with his new role as a reserve, something Byron Scott flatly confessed before the game.

"I’m not going to sit here and talk about it," Waiters said of the benching. "I just tried to go out there and help my team as much as I can."

Waiters had 20 points on 8 of 19 shooting, but made a strong recovery after starting the night 2 of 8.

[Goldin Brown]

Sixth man is clearly the best role for Dion, its been obvious for a while. Hope he learns to be embrace it.

[Prophet Named X]

Yup, draft a 6th man with the 4th pick in the draft. Brilliant!

[PosterTime]

Yup, draft a 6th man with the 4th pick in the draft. Brilliant!

I know what you're saying though.

[Gimme Some Mo]

Dion just shouldn't be allowed to shoot a 3 or deep 2 unless he is wide open or it is a spot up shot. If he would just stop taking those idiotic shots, I would be MUCH happier with him.

I just can't stand the early shot clock/out of rhythm fade away long jumpers with a guy all over him. It has to stop.

People compare him to Wade.... Well he needs to start having the shot selection of Wade, because at this point, he is a terrible outside shooter. I would imagine Dion would be closer to 40-42% (still bad, but acceptable at this point), if he would quit taking those shots.

[chrisrich91]

Yup, draft a 6th man with the 4th pick in the draft. Brilliant!

Dion has shown the most flashes out of any of the wing guys thus far. I'd rather have his talent at 6th man than someone like Harrison Barnes starting. The Drummond argument has been beaten to death so don't bring it up...we missed on Drummond just like a bunch of other teams, get over it. Happens every year.

This sentiment is EXACTLY why I didn't want Byron ever relegating Dion to the 6th man role. People obsess about it and use it as an excuse to bitch.

And I am not a fan of this 6th man thing. If Byron was a good coach he would be dedicated to teaching Kyrie and Dion to play with each other to maximize each other's talents.

'Dion can handle the ball as well? Well throw him on the bench, that's Kyrie's job.' Stupid attitude that will lead us to the same problems as we had in the LeBron era. I want multiple shot creators in my backcourt. If there are growing pains while figuring it out in a REBUILDING SEASON, big whoop.

But what do I know? Scott seems to know what he's doing, so I'll trust him.

[Prophet Named X]

Dion has shown the most flashes out of any of the wing guys thus far. I'd rather have his talent at 6th man than someone like Harrison Barnes starting. The Drummond argument has been beaten to death so don't bring it up...we missed on Drummond just like a bunch of other teams, get over it. Happens every year.

This sentiment is EXACTLY why I didn't want Byron ever relegating Dion to the 6th man role. People obsess about it and use it as an excuse to bitch.

And I am not a fan of this 6th man thing. If Byron was a good coach he would be dedicated to teaching Kyrie and Dion to play with each other to maximize each other's talents.

'Dion can handle the ball as well? Well throw him on the bench, that's Kyrie's job.' Stupid attitude that will lead us to the same problems as we had in the LeBron era. I want multiple shot creators in my backcourt. If there are growing pains while figuring it out in a REBUILDING SEASON, big whoop.

But what do I know? Scott seems to know what he's doing, so I'll trust him.

Honestly, Dion isn't getting it done as a starter. He's shooting awful percentages from everywhere on the court. Maybe Dion can get it going against lesser competition on other teams' benches. I don't know. We've invested the pick, gotta try to make it work I guess.

[Gimme Some Mo]

Dion has shown the most flashes out of any of the wing guys thus far. I'd rather have his talent at 6th man than someone like Harrison Barnes starting. The Drummond argument has been beaten to death so don't bring it up...we missed on Drummond just like a bunch of other teams, get over it. Happens every year.

This sentiment is EXACTLY why I didn't want Byron ever relegating Dion to the 6th man role. People obsess about it and use it as an excuse to bitch.

And I am not a fan of this 6th man thing. If Byron was a good coach he would be dedicated to teaching Kyrie and Dion to play with each other to maximize each other's talents.

'Dion can handle the ball as well? Well throw him on the bench, that's Kyrie's job.' Stupid attitude that will lead us to the same problems as we had in the LeBron era. I want multiple shot creators in my backcourt. If there are growing pains while figuring it out in a REBUILDING SEASON, big whoop.

But what do I know? Scott seems to know what he's doing, so I'll trust him.

Completely agree with this. While moving Dion to bench is probably better for winning games now, it is not better for the future of this team. And even though I believe Dion's ultimate role on a great team is a 6th man, that doesn't matter at this point either.

They absolutely HAVE to try to get Kyrie and Dion to function together on the court. Unfortunately, I am questioning if that will ever work. Many people questioned it as soon as we drafted him and apparently Byron is questioning it now as well. Until Dion becomes a reliable shooter, I don't see the fit with Kyrie. But the point remains.... they have to TRY to make it work. I don't want to be going into next season not knowing if they can or cannot be on the court together for long stretches of time.

[jwalker1399]

Yup, draft a 6th man with the 4th pick in the draft. Brilliant!

Yup, 33 games into his NBA career and we've got him all figured out......

It takes time people!

[Pioneer10]

When you have guys like Ginobili and Harden coming off the bench and finishing games you're able to win titles/get to the Finals starting some mediocre but good roleplayers such as Shefolasha, Brent Barry, Michael Finley as starters. If you look at the numbers on a per minute basis a guy like Ginobili is right next to Allen behind Kobe and Wade as the best SG's of the past decade (hell the dude has a playoff PER of 20 which is very good). If you end up with a Harden or Ginobili who happen to be just "sixth men" then that is worth the 4th pick easy. Hell with how good I think Irving is going to be (similar to how good Westbrook and Parker are) it maybe better for your team to not waste your PG's scoring ability trying to get multiple perimeter players going at the same time. Better to have your 6th man come off the bench, i.e. Waiters, shoulder the burden of carrying your team when you rest your scoring PG and then have both in to help finish off games after both have had chances to warm up so to speak

This doesn't mean that Waiters will get to that high level but I think he's got a chance as he's shown the flashes. He's having trouble right now moving from having an exceptional quarter or half to finishing off an entire game (shot selection and finishing issues really hurt him here). If coming off the bench helps him transition, fine by me.

[chrisrich91]

Honestly, Dion isn't getting it done as a starter. He's shooting awful percentages from everywhere on the court. Maybe Dion can get it going against lesser competition on other teams' benches. I don't know. We've invested the pick, gotta try to make it work I guess.

I understand, but it's so early in his career. I'm of the belief that he's going to have to suffer through his growing pains and hopefully improve over the rest of the season and have a huge offseason of growth. You can't write Beal or Rivers or Terrence Ross off yet either. For the non-Kyrie perimeter players of the world it takes time to get efficiency and consistency.

Dion will not continue to play at this level of efficiency for his career...as of now I'm less worried about his shots going in and more worried about his ability to create those looks for himself as well as playing defense, setting his teammates up, and taking pressure off of Kyrie. He's doing a good job with a lot of that right now. The fact that he's been inconsistent with his shooting is blinding fans from seeing how complete his game has been...and the good news is that the Cavs are already working out kinks in his form that are making him an inconsistent shooter. I'm sure he will become much better as his form is refined with practice and the game continues to slow down for him.

[Tecumseh]

Kyrie and Dion really don't seem comfortable playing with each other so far. Obviously you want Kyrie to take charge but Kyrie's ability to shoot make Dion a more attractive candidate to distribute. I wonder if Scott determined that the best way to develop Dion was to play him less with Kyrie. Both players are score first players. I can't think of many high caliber teams that have clear score first guards at both starting spots.

[Pioneer10]

Completely agree with this. While moving Dion to bench is probably better for winning games now, it is not better for the future of this team. And even though I believe Dion's ultimate role on a great team is a 6th man, that doesn't matter at this point either.

They absolutely HAVE to try to get Kyrie and Dion to function together on the court. Unfortunately, I am questioning if that will ever work. Many people questioned it as soon as we drafted him and apparently Byron is questioning it now as well. Until Dion becomes a reliable shooter, I don't see the fit with Kyrie. But the point remains.... they have to TRY to make it work. I don't want to be going into next season not knowing if they can or cannot be on the court together for long stretches of time.

As I've stated in my previous post I'm not sure I agree with this. Great combo guards like Ginobili and Harden seem to really help their teams off the bench when you have a great scoring PG.
Irving right now is very similar to Westbrook and Parker in what makes him elite is his scoring ability and not his point guard play. I haven't thought about this previously but it maybe advantageous for a team when you have a great scoring PG to let that PG not have to be concerned about getting other perimeter player going and concentrate on what he does best. Finishing games is a bit different then starting game because if both the PG and 6th man have gotten time to get their looks and to develop a good feel for attacking the opponent's defense it will be easier for them to mesh at the end of games as both of them are warmed up (i.e. can't think of many games when Parker/Ginobili and Westbrook/Harden didn't finish the games together)

[RchfldCavRaised]

And I am not a fan of this 6th man thing. If Byron was a good coach he would be dedicated to teaching Kyrie and Dion to play with each other to maximize each other's talents.

'Dion can handle the ball as well? Well throw him on the bench, that's Kyrie's job.' Stupid attitude that will lead us to the same problems as we had in the LeBron era. I want multiple shot creators in my backcourt. If there are growing pains while figuring it out in a REBUILDING SEASON, big whoop.

But what do I know? Scott seems to know what he's doing, so I'll trust him.

Both Kyrie and Dion are ball dominant guards. If this were Kyrie's 4th or 5th season and he had already developed a stronger understanding of the game and his responsibilites as a point guard and best perimeter player in this offense, then I would be all for sticking through this and letting Kyrie adjust his game to help compliment Dion through his growing/learning phase.

But they are both still pups. Without the right veteran to mentor EACH individually into their roles, its dangerous to just throw them out there and ask them to competitively feel their ways into each role.

One has to learn to establish himself as the point guard and the other has to learn to establish himself with stronger play off the ball (cut, move do something off the ball). Dion could be more effective in the starting lineup if he played as hard off the ball as he does when he has the ball in his hands. He doesnt do that right now. Kyrie has to learn to create more (yes, even for the teammates he has) as opposed to reverting to a one on one ISO dribbling player. When Byron Scott tries to preach to Kyrie that he needs to make his move by his guy and move the ball according to what the help defense does, he cant plead his case to Kyrie if in the video Dion is standing on the opposite court watching and waiting for his turn to initiate in order to be active on offense. Alonzo Gee is not a good ball handler but he is an excellent off the ball cutter/slasher and CJ Miles has been trained to do this over the course of his career in Utah, while he is also more adept at breaking down his man in support of Kyrie (though not at a Kyrie or Dion level).

As it is, they cant learn to break these bad habits that each of them have while learning to play at this level, in the same backcourt. Not at the same time. The pressure to produce and play together will cause them to revert to what they know and their bad habits feed into each other. Dion stands and watches...Kyrie dribbles and dribbles. And anyone with objectivity can see that Kyrie is better as the initiator/lead guard than not only Dion but already about 75% of the other PGs in the league, so it would be square peg in round hole to ask him to play off ball simply because he does that better than Dion as well.

Then you have this to factor in, as it relates to their personalites...

In the ESPN Mag article, Dredrick mentioned a characteristic about Kyrie that I've noticed early in this season playing alongside Waiters, that does not happen when Waiters was not out there. He alluded to Kyrie being the type of personality to defer to a more aggressive wing player a little too much trying to keep teammates happy. He did it when he transferred to St Patricks with Dexter Strickland and they got their asses kicked when it came down to money time against St Anthonys that year (in the movie "Street Stops Here" on Netflix). I saw it in both the Michigan State games and the loss against Arizona, when Kyrie was just hanging back and playing off the ball until they were losing and then he moved Nolan Smith out of the way and tried to take over both games.

You want him to continue building on and perfecting what he started last season. Sessions did some heavy lifting as the lead guard, sure, but Sessions limitations are already established and he knew that when he was off the ball the ball he needed to cut and move to keep the defense honest. As much as it pains me to say, Anthony Parker also made things much easier for Kyrie last year by being such a veteran off the ball and having such a high IQ on offense. Kyrie is starting to feel himself and his capabilites after last season and the summer, you dont want to kill that momentum. He is learning to be a floor leader and not just a scoring leader.

It comes down to... you have two very young players who both are ball dominant "score-first" guards but neither are true point guards or big athletic guards who know how to play best off the ball.

You stagger their time together, by playing veteran off the ball wings like CJ and Gee with both and stagger them so that when Dion comes in, Kyrie is already rolling as point guard and can switch off ball without needing the ball to feel his way into a game. Dion can come in and play to his strength right away and impose himself on a tired defender or a backup and feel his way into the game with the ball in his hands and then play from there.

Some guys simply have the type of game where their strengths are to play without conscience and have a green light from the time they take off their warmups, and that in turn feeds other facets of their games. Jason Terry, JR Smtih, Vinny Johnson, Ricky Pierce... Dion Waiters.

Coach Scott is doing the right thing, the real challenge will be convincing Dion that this should be his role as a pro and to embrace it. Because in quite a few other cities I think Dion could be the starting PG RIGHT NOW and Im sure he thinks that as well.

Going to be a new plot line to watch.

[RchfldCavRaised]

PHEW!!!

Didnt realize I typed that much. Im pretty passionate about backcourt play and how a strong unit (starters and reserves) can really make or break a team. And since ours is still in its infancy, I think its important that roles are defined better by Coach Scott and this fixes alot of what I had problems with through every game that these two started together.

CJ Miles needs to continue playing like he has.