Tyler Zeller: CHOCOLATE SNOW !!!

[mAo_mAo]

Perfect example tonight of how he is nothing more than an end of the bench guy. Got abused in every facet of the game. The Cavs FO made a big mistake on this one. Drafting a guy (they didn't interview or work out to my knowledge) with average athleticism, below-average strength, IQ, wingspan, hustle, and slightly above average hands, shooting touch.
I don't understand why everyone is freaking out about Dion when we clearly have something with him, and we whiffed with Zeller.

And it's not a Ryan Hollins type situation where you know he has no future on the team. If the Cavs are sold on Zeller for the next 4 years, they'll miss a lot of opportunities.

His problem is his strength and his understanding of defensive coverage. Can be fixed, imo.

[howler1313]

He's not just physically weak, he looks incredibly soft to me. I think he could still be a big off the bench, but he should be nowhere near the Cavs plans as the starting C.

[Numbers Guy]

Pump fakes WAY too much. Every open look he pump fakes, defender closes out and either a.) turns the ball over or b.) gets the shot swatted. Just take the open set shot.. it's better than any other shot our "offense" will come up with.

[Douglar]

He's not just physically weak, he looks incredibly soft to me. I think he could still be a big off the bench, but he should be nowhere near the Cavs plans as the starting C.

Zeller is a skilled, mobile 7 footer with a high center of gravity who lacks the natural physicality to jump right into the NBA and push bodies arround. It shows in his body language. I don't know if he's just too polite or if he's got FINESSE tattooed on his butt, but he's not a natural at pushing people while he gets moved arround in the paint like an air hockey puck.

It isn't a lack of effort or desire. I see him down there hustling and struggling. He just doesn't have the right combination of strength and technique yet to make things work and he's getting schooled for it.

I think a lot of this will change. I don't think he's hit his ceiling yet. He's going to get stronger over the next few years. He's a smart dude who studies film and hits the practice floor. He's going to learn new techniques that help him compensate for lack of lower body strength and his high center of gravity, even if they don't come naturally to him today. He'll get there. He'll probably never become great or a starting low post C on a good team, but he should at least become competent backup some day.

Now if Zeller ever wants to become a decent starter, he's going to have to get that jumper to fall and use his mobility to work on his perimeter & transition game. He's got a foot speed advantage on a lot of front court players. He's got decent shooting touch. He's got a couple tools that a lot of C's don't have.

[Jon]

It'll be interesting to see what our strength & conditioning program can do with Tyler. From what I understand he was even more of a stick figure in his early days at NC, so, hopefully he can continue to get stronger. I was hoping we'd see more athleticism, motor, and ability to run the court from Tyler. He's ok in that category, but I'm not seeing anything game-changing.

[RchfldCavRaised]

Tyler only put up the numbers he did at UNC because Roy force fed him. It hurt us because he could be counted on to shrink away from intimidating big guys (the kind of guys on every roster in the NBA). He was supposed to be the high energy hustle guy off the bench all along. The Wear twins transferred and Ed Davis left way too early, and that put Zeller in a position to be a focal point. It also helped him that Henson never developed anything on offense.

He's a rotational system guy who will be a pro for a long time. His ability to face up alone will keep him in the league.

He is not a starter/building block kind of player and should not be considered when drafting next. As should not anyone on the roster not named Kyrie.

[Triumph36]

Perfect example tonight of how he is nothing more than an end of the bench guy. Got abused in every facet of the game. The Cavs FO made a big mistake on this one. Drafting a guy (they didn't interview or work out to my knowledge) with average athleticism, below-average strength, IQ, wingspan, hustle, and slightly above average hands, shooting touch.
I don't understand why everyone is freaking out about Dion when we clearly have something with him, and we whiffed with Zeller.

And it's not a Ryan Hollins type situation where you know he has no future on the team. If the Cavs are sold on Zeller for the next 4 years, they'll miss a lot of opportunities.

who were the alternatives? it's not like guys drafted after him are absolutely crushing or anything.

he was, i think, drafted just as a future backup big that plays maybe 10-20mpg. not a long-term starter at center, not a player who impacts future draft selections, and really.....just not that important a player at all. an average role player, basically. which is okay for the 17th selection.

edit: speaking of dion, i think he was a bigger mistake than zeller. cavs missed out on a potential franchise big by choosing dion. cavs missed out on....other, average role players at best by choosing zeller. was it the perfect choice? maybe, maybe not. but is it really a big deal in the big picture? no.

He's not just physically weak, he looks incredibly soft to me. I think he could still be a big off the bench, but he should be nowhere near the Cavs plans as the starting C.

has this ever actually been the case?

i know they were high on him - like he was 11th or something on their big board - but i'd hope their expectations were never that high.

[Jon]

i know they were high on him - like he was 11th or something on their big board - but i'd hope their expectations were never that high.

You may end up with a backup, but that's not what you're shooting for when you rank someone as the 11th best player in a draft.

The thing is, if not for the Tyler trade, we could have gone all scattergun on the draft and you'd think out of our 3 picks, odds are we would have found at least one bona-fide starter and/or perhaps a solid bench guy as well.

How ironic if the best rookie we could have signed this past off-season, turns out to be the guy we could have had without using a pick (Alexy Shved) - but he's 24 with Euroleague experience. It's going to take time for things to play out.

[Triumph36]

You may end up with a backup, but that's not what you're shooting for when you rank someone as the 11th best player in a draft.

The thing is, if not for the Tyler trade, we could have gone all scattergun on the draft and you'd think out of our 3 picks, odds are we would have found at least one bona-fide starter and/or perhaps a solid bench guy as well.

How ironic if the best rookie we could have signed this past off-season, turns out to be the guy we could have had without using a pick (Alexy Shved) - but he's 24 with Euroleague experience. It's going to take time for things to play out.

i don't think ranking someone 11th precludes the team from also believing they are a future bench player. assuming they plan on actually winning, of course. finding players that are capable of starting on serious title contenders is fucking hard. even if the cavs were 100% correct and he was the 11th best player in the draft, how many guys of that ranking really can start on a contender? i'm too lazy to look at previous drafts, but i'd bet it's rare that the 11th best player in a given year develops into a player that can start on a contender.

also, no way were the odds in the cavs favor that they would've found one bonafide starter and/or a solid bench guy (which zeller can still be the latter, btw). they had 24, 33, and 34. that's not that good. sometimes players drafted in that range do turn into starters or even very good rotational bench guys,of course, but it's not exactly common.

[Jon]

finding players that are capable of starting on serious title contenders is fucking hard. even if the cavs were 100% correct and he was the 11th best player in the draft, how many guys of that ranking really can start on a contender?

Maybe you want to re-phrase this, because it sounds like you're confusing starting quality player with Super-star/All-star caliber player. There are legit starters to be found throughout any draft - even outside the draft. They tend to fritter away once you get a bit in to the second round or even earlier if it's not a very deep draft.

Taking the 2006 draft for example (a pretty weak one), there were legit starters taken 13, 21, 24, and 47; but so far only one All Star.

[Triumph36]

Maybe you want to re-phrase this, because it sounds like you're confusing starting quality player with Super-star/All-star caliber player. There are legit starters to be found throughout any draft - even outside the draft. They tend to fritter away once you get a bit in to the second round or even earlier if it's not a very deep draft.

Taking the 2006 draft for example (a pretty weak one), there were legit starters taken 13, 21, 24, and 47; but so far only one All Star.

no, i don't want to rephrase that. i never said you can't find starting caliber players later in the draft. i said that:

a) ranking him 11th doesn't necessarily mean they think he'll be a long-term starter, as the 11th best player in a given draft usually isn't good enough to start on a contender (emphasis on the contender part, starting on a playoff or bad team is obv meaningless)

and

b) even if the cavs had kept 24, 33, and 34 odds are those players wouldn't have developed into starters or even good bench players. it's not that it's impossible, just that it doesn't happen often.

[D-Wreck]

I realize that some of his problems will be solved with some added strength, but the guy looks absolutely lost on the defensive end, he's getting killed every night. Not a problem I thought we'd have with a guy who spent 4 years in college.

[Rich]

I realize that some of his problems will be solved with some added strength, but the guy looks absolutely lost on the defensive end, he's getting killed every night. Not a problem i thought we'd have with a guy who spent 4 years in college.

Well, you know, Carolina has been mediocre to poor on defense over the last few seasons. Finding out why.

[Silky Smooth]

I realize that some of his problems will be solved with some added strength, but the guy looks absolutely lost on the defensive end, he's getting killed every night. Not a problem i thought we'd have with a guy who spent 4 years in college.

Yeah I was surprised Byron Scott kept him in the game today. Kufous was liking like an all star.

[chrisrich91]

Zeller had some nice blocks in the first half which was surprising. After that, however, he looked like total shit. He should be designated this year's tank driver...he gift wrapped Kosta Koufos a career night.

Thank God this draft is loaded with bigs...gotta find the right one.