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  1. #1141
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    Default Re: 2013 NFL Draft thread

    Quote Originally Posted by selby56 View Post
    But the odds of finding a franchise QB in the first round is probably 5x better. Look at most of the franchise QB's in the league, nearly all of them were first round picks. While I agree you shouldn't avoid drafting someone in fear of them not working out, we also shouldn't draft a 3rd round QB in a draft where we already are short a 2nd round pick and have plenty of defensive holes to fill. Not to mention we already have a QB that we invested a first rounder on and should give one more year to. We have been there and done that plenty of times with 3rd round quarterbacks. And guess what? None of them worked. I don't see why it would work this time. And aside from Russell Wilson, I can't think of a single one that turned out to be a franchise QB off the top of my head. And for all we know, Russell Wilson could flop next year too. But you know what we haven't tried in a long time? Drafting an elite QB prospect.

    Insanity is drafting a 3rd round QB every two years and expecting a different result.
    Matt Shaub, but I'm not saying we should draft a guy in the third round just to do it either. If there's someone that this administration really likes that falls to the third rounder, whether it be at QB or any other position. They should take him. At the same time if they really like someone in the first, they should take him too. They shouldn't be afraid whether or not it is the first through seventh round.

    Good QB's are taken in just about every round.
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    Default Re: 2013 NFL Draft thread

    Again, I think DQ has a much better chance of success in the 3-4 than a lot of you give him credit for. He didn't get a ton of burn in the 3-4 because he missed 2 consecutive years to injury. When he did get to play it was quite early in his career. Point is I don't think we've seen enough of him in the 3-4 to really judge him. His size might be an issue, but I still think he'll be good. I doubt he'll be as good as he was in the 4-3, but I still think he'll be a solid player at the very least.
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    Default Re: 2013 NFL Draft thread

    Considering this zone blitz scheme will leave openings in the defense, DQ might even be more active.
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    Default Re: 2013 NFL Draft thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Wulfgar1224 View Post
    Taylor- I think his natural fit is NT. But, it makes sense to keep Taylor and Rubin on the field at the same time. Rubin can't play DE in the 34. Is Taylor athetlic enough to play a 34 DE? That is a tough question to answer,
    Winn- I think he has the ability to move to a 34 DE. I'm hopeful he is athletic enough to handle it.
    Hughes- He's not a good fit in the 34. I don't like him at NT and can't see him being effective at DE.
    Rucker/Parker- Both men are awkward fits in the 43. I can't see either one of them moving to OLB.
    Sheard- This is the biggest key to the switch over. IMO, he isn't versatile enough to switch to OLB effectively. If we think back to his rookie year, he wasn't that effective at RDE in the 43. After they moved him to LDE, he played much better. I think Sheard is strictly a 43 LDE. He's going to be hurt by the switch.

    As for the linebackers here is how I see it:

    DQ- Sadly he's proven to be a better fit in the 43. He has a problem shedding blockers.
    Frankly, I don't see a good 34 ILB on our roster right now. Maybe if Gocong comes back, he might be able to handle it. But, Robertson, Fort, JMJ, aren't going to be big enough to help occupy blockers to free up DQ. I don't think Sheard makes the switch smoothly at all. That mean they'll have to draft at least one OLB and one ILB. They'll probably need to sign another for depth.
    Taylor is plenty athletic to play DE in the 34... While he is quite large at 330, his movement skills and lateral agility is that of a guy 40-50lbs lighter... He's plenty athletic to play DE and the key thing is that he's going to command double teams... But if Horton plans to run a lot of nickel 2-4-5 then Rubin and Taylor will be the 2 down lineman and there ability to eat up blockers will be key.. I mean I don't see that much difference size wise between Dockett and Taylor.. But I mean, if Ngata can play 5-tech then I don't see how Taylor can't... How is it any different than when Shaun Rogers played 5-tech a few years back?

    Winn would be perfect as a 5-tech... He's got a perfect build and his quickness is there, as evidence by him being featured at RDE more as the season progressed... I also hope people realize Boise State ran/runs a lot of 34 looks, and Winn played a lot of 5-tech while at Boise... So him playing 5-tech shouldn't be anything new and I think he's suited for it...

    You don't see Hughes being a fit? He's got the perfect, stocky build to be a 0-tech... He might need to add a little wait but he was essentially the NT when he was in last year and held his own pretty well...

    Parker is a FA and is gone, he can't play in the 34...

    I think Rucker is an okay fit as a 5-tech but you can certainly get away with him as a backup... I mean he's playing at about 280 which is about what most 5-techs are at... He's been a run-stopping lineman everywhere he's been so I don't see how that would change much or how he wouldn't be able to hand the change...

    The reason he wasn't effective switching to RDE is because he played LDE the majority of his career... Believe it or not, RDE and LDE are two very different positions and requires two different players... While it may seem as easy as just flipping them and being comfortable, it's not easily done in a snap of the fingers... But I really don't see why Sheard will be a bad fit... He'll most likely be the JACK LB which means he's going to be moving forward 90% of the time and not going to be asked to drop into coverage that much... He's at a weight where he'll be fine at OLB and we saw him stand up a lot more as the season went on and was pretty successful rushing from the two-point stance... I mean if a guy like Dwight Freeney can make the switch, I don't see how hard it can be for Sheard.. I mean, how much do you see guys like Ware, Aldon Smith, Hali, Suggs, etc., dropping into coverage? I don't see Sheard as any less immobile then those guys, so I think he should be fine..

    LBs: I agree DQ is a better fit in the 43 but he can still be a good LB in the system... I'll also be interested to see how he can play with some better talent around him... The last few times we ran the 34 with him, the talent around him was supbar..

    Aside from DQ, I see Sheard as a OLB... But I agree that the Browns more than likely need another starter at OLB and ILB... Right now, those are the only two legit starters... They could start Gocong or JMJ on the inside next to DQ, but they should find an upgrade if they want a top-notch defense...

    Guys like Robertson and Fort can still have roles in a 34 defense... There's still a need for coverage 'backers and special team guys, so they'll still have a role... Just not a large one... As for JMJ: I think he can successfully play in the 34 (he played MIKE his last two years in college after switching between inside and out) and he some skills that will translate, I just don't think he'll be high-end starter caliber... Gocong actually played pretty well inside when we ran the 34 and graded out pretty well.. He's always been good against the run, it's the other aspects he's struggled with...


    Quote Originally Posted by Coc Rhakalu View Post
    Good post. If the Browns think that Star is a stud, and he grades out higher than any of the pass rushers, then he should be the pick. I really don't want to pass on Ngata for Wimbley again. If that's the case, then it's absolutely imperative that we're major players in free agency. Even though a line of Taylor/Rubin/Star would likely be the best in football, the 3-4 Horton wants to run would be very ugly without another pass rusher and a strong free safety.

    I know it's incredibly, incredibly, unrealistic, but the best scenario is probably stealing Connor Barwin and Kerry Rhodes followed by drafting Star. This would be really fantastic and our D would be disgusting.
    They could go get a pass rusher in free agency, who knows...

    Pass rushers are also littered throughout the draft with guys like Quanterus Smith and Trevardo Williams being specialist to watch later on...

    But also remember that Horton put up those numbers with Sam Acho, O'Brien Schofield and Quentin Grove as his OLBs...

    I would agree that would be an awesome scenario... I wonder what type of market Shaun Phillips will generate...

    Quote Originally Posted by Phills14 View Post
    I assume, we are going to get someone to rush the passer with the 1st rounder. The next pick we have is in the 3rd round. Walter Football has projected Landry Jones as a 3rd rounder and have mocked him as our pick a few times. Landry has the size, arm strength, intelligence, accuracy, starting experience at a high level but he just was never able to live up to expectations at OU. Thoughts on Jones in the 3rd round? You gotta assume, they don't like Weeden so they are looking for a QB.
    I wouldn't just pick a QB in the 3rd just because, especially with not having a 2nd round pick this year...

    The problem with Jones is not the arm talent or when he has a clean pocket, it's all the other stuff: accuracy, decision making, vs. pressure...

    He should have came out when his stock was the highest because he's gradually dropped and scouts have seen little improvement in his game...

    I wouldn't be real mad at it, but I don't see the high upside there to warrant it..

    Quote Originally Posted by DCunleaded View Post
    Smooth, you don't like JMJ at the Buck (ILB) position in the 3-4? I mentioned in the Horton thread that a starting CB might be had in FA, but we'd still have to draft a corner by rd4 for the nickel spot (because Skrine is a liability at best). I also mentioned the need for a FS a la Mundy via FA, and perhaps a prospect in the late rounds.

    I think Fauria (TE) would be good in the later rounds, but I think his bloodline will get him drafted at least one round before he should....
    I do think JMJ can play the BUCK but if the Browns can upgrade the spot, they should try to... I view JMJ as a backup option should it not work out... I just think the LBs are such a key part of the 34 that you really need 4 very good LBs to pull it off...

    Yeah, the Browns are going to have to address one of their two major needs (OLB & CB) in FA because they're not going to be able to address both of them with not having a 2nd round pick... With the way the draft is shaping up, they'd be best to address the CB in FA and get the OLB in the draft...

    The TE is actually a pretty good class and there is some good depth throughout... I'd say the FS class isn't too top heavy but has a lot of interesting names in the mid-late rounds that could surprise... The Browns would be best served to pick up a FS in free agency but Gipson did play well for a rookie last year and there could be some interesting options in the draft...


    Quote Originally Posted by RealKingofCleve View Post
    Can anyone give any feedback on Ezekiel Ansah as I don't know too much about him? Is he a serious contender at number 6 or would he be more likely in a trade down scenario?
    Ansah is a kid who's a late bloomer in the sense he only started playing football a few years ago, with this season being his first year of legit playing time...

    He's very raw technique wise and as far as pure football skills go but physique wise, wow... Very good build, good fluidity, good strength and he has a high motor to go along with that... The thing that makes all that even more intriguing is that he had 35 tackles, 13 TFL, 4.5 sacks in 13 games (9 starts) this season..

    With Ansah, it's really a lot about projecting him because there is very little tape on him... But the tape that there is, it's gotten him buzz in the late 1st round range..

    Depending on how he tests and interviews, he very well could see his name called in the top-15...

    Quote Originally Posted by jlegg21 View Post
    Is Werner really a 3-4 OLB? I dont see it.
    No, not all... Purely a 43 end... Most likely a LDE so even if the Browns stayed in a 43, there would still be questions if he could fit it at RDE here...

    Quote Originally Posted by Coc Rhakalu View Post
    So who do you guys think is the top pass rusher this class? I don't think there's a Von Miller this year, but still think the Browns desperately need to go after a rush OLB (assuming 3-4).

    Mingo
    Montgomery
    Jarvis (Would be my favorite if not for the SS).
    Werner
    Moore (I think my favorite).
    Dion Jordan.
    I'm not a huge Mingo fan, but I don't think Montgomery deserves to be in the discussion to be at the top level of pass rushers... For Mingo, he at least has the physical traits you look for despite the lack of stats... Montgomery has decent stats and decent physical traits... He'll be a solid pass rusher because he's got very good hands, good technique and will get after it but he doesn't his physical traits and production don't stand out...

    I'm real curious where Brandon Jenkins and Tank Carradine would be if they were full healthy...

    For me if we're just talking about the pass rushing aspect, I'd rank them like this: 1. Werner 2. Jones 3. Moore 4. Mingo 5. Jordan.... To me, Werner is the best best pure pass rusher in this draft when talking about a combo of his very good burst, his hands, his ability to bend and some power as well... After than, Jones follows pretty closely in those categories and I don't think there's a huge difference between Werner and Jones... The reason I have Moore 3rd is because I don't see the good get off that Werner and Jones possess... While the get-off isn't everything, it is important... But at the same time, Moore's motor is better than those two and a big reason why he has as many sacks, TFLs and tackles as he does... I rank Mingo at #4 purely based off of his potential and his physical abilities, nothing more... I see Jordan as a good but not great pass rusher... I will say his ability to bend and run the corner for a guy his size is pretty amazing... His sack #s are great but it's also because he was used in a different role than a lot of the other guys...

    Now if we're talking about complete players and 34 OLBs, then the rankings are different...

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  6. #1145
    member 32 bob2the2nd's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2013 NFL Draft thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Phills14 View Post
    I assume, we are going to get someone to rush the passer with the 1st rounder. The next pick we have is in the 3rd round. Walter Football has projected Landry Jones as a 3rd rounder and have mocked him as our pick a few times. Landry has the size, arm strength, intelligence, accuracy, starting experience at a high level but he just was never able to live up to expectations at OU. Thoughts on Jones in the 3rd round? You gotta assume, they don't like Weeden so they are looking for a QB.
    as an OU fan the browns shouldnt even sniff laundry. I understand why NFL teams will take a waiver on him, but he wont be in the league in 5 years. He just simply cannot handle pressure. If he has a clean pocket he is going to make the perfect throw 9 out of 10 times, however if there is a guy within 3 yards of him all bets are off it doesnt matter what uniform you have on there is a decent chance laundry is going to throw the ball to you regardless if you have anyone else around you... or several people around you

    flat out there is a reason OU fans wanted to see him leave after his junior year, he just simply stopped developing after his freshman year, he still forces the ball, throws across his body, makes stupid mistakes. If the light every goes on and he realizes that sometimes its okay to throw the ball away/take a hit/etc he could be a pretty decent QB but he has now has 4 years at OU to show any progress and he simply hasnt.

    let me put it this way i dont remember an OU game in the last 2 years where an announcer didnt say "there is a freshman mistake by laundry"
    Last edited by bob2the2nd; 01-22-2013 at 12:38 AM.

  7. #1146
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    Default Re: 2013 NFL Draft thread

    Regarding the FS position, I still think we'd be wise to grab one from FA and one from the draft (day two or day three). I forgot about Gipson, and how he started to bloom in the second half of the season. One guy I really think Horton will want to take a look at, is Bademosi at the FS position. Legit speed, but I'm not sure how his range is playing that CF position.

    If you guys get to watch the Senior Bowl practices on NFL Network this week, try to remember Cyprien S from FIU (or FAU? I get those two confused all the time). He could be a fast riser, which sucks because I was hoping we could snatch him late in the draft.

    This would be a home run for me, free-agency wise; also it would set the table for what I figure the Browns will do in the draft (pass rusher at #6, BPA afterwards):
    -FS: Ryan Mundy (draft one late)
    -CB: starting quality CB via FA (draft one rd 3 or 4)
    -LB: Anthony Spencer (DAL), draft ILB rd 4/5
    -G: LeVitre would be by #1, but I'd be fine with Geoffrey Schwartz too; late round pick
    -TE: Pitta might be nice, although I'd really like Delanie Walker if he didn't have stone hands. I'll defer to Chud on this position.
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    Default Re: 2013 NFL Draft thread

    It's not even a done deal we're moving to the 3-4 people. Horton said so himself, he's going to adapt to what he has on the roster.

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  10. #1148
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    Default Re: 2013 NFL Draft thread

    Some very good points Smooth. I don't have time to respond to all of the ones I wanted to since I have to leave for work, but the one that stuck out the most was using Shaun Rogers as an example. I was stoked when we signed Rogers. I remember a certain play when he played for Detroit breaking through the line, getting in the QB's face, getting his hands up to bat the ball right as the QB released it and knocking it up in the air, then catching it and running it in for a TD. He was a big time playmaker. He also weighed 330+ and could 360 dunk a basketball. Crazy athletic ability for a guy his size. Was beyond thrilled.

    Then he played for us in the 3-4. He was terrible. He played NT, and he penetrated every chance he got. The NT's job is to eat centers and guards to keep them off the ILB's. The other team would destroy us up the middle because he was bad at his job and our ILB's were being forced to shed blocks every play. DQ sucks at this, he's an open space player. Teams saw this happening and were letting Rogers penetrate and running right by him and gouging us up the middle all day long while DQ was getting manhandled by those centers and guards that Rogers wasn't tying up. This didn't improve until Rogers got hurt and Rubin came in at NT. Rubin locked down the NT spot after that. Unfortunately DQ got hurt and we didn't get to see much of him with Rubin at NT to know if he would have played better.

    Now, that was in the New England 3-4, if we run the more aggressive version a guy like Rogers may be less of a liability. But I see our lineman outside of Rubin as being more like Rogers (style, not talent level) which would be a problem since we are no longer (I assume) running a 4-3. Winn will probably be fine, though I don't know if he has the talent for us to be "set" with him starting long term. He had a good rookie season, we'll see if he keeps it up. We already know Rubin will be good because we have seen it already, the other guys are the ones I'm really worried about. Hopefully Taylor can play DE in this scheme, Hughes can back up Rubin, and we'll find some DE depth and we'll be OK. We're not there yet though.
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  12. #1149
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    Default Re: 2013 NFL Draft thread

    If we're looking at QBs in the draft, I like Seth Doege from Texas Tech. Watching the East West Shrine game, he has a pretty good arm. He's making good throws and gets away from the pass rush and can make some plays with his feet

  13. #1150
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    Default Re: 2013 NFL Draft thread

    Why are we so quick to switch the defense? If it isn't broke, do not fix it.
    OU... OH YEAH!!!!

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  14. #1151
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    Default Re: 2013 NFL Draft thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The Voice View Post
    Why are we so quick to switch the defense? If it isn't broke, do not fix it.
    Ranked 23rd in total defense. I suppose it warrants a looking into.

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    Default Re: 2013 NFL Draft thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RappSoda View Post
    Ranked 23rd in total defense. I suppose it warrants a looking into.
    To be fair, they were a top 10 defense in 2011. Sadly, Haden's suspensions and Taylor's injury really hurt the D.

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    Default Re: 2013 NFL Draft thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The Voice View Post
    Why are we so quick to switch the defense? If it isn't broke, do not fix it.
    The Browns were broken. We brought in a new staff to try and fix it, turns out that staff prefers the 3-4. I'd gladly switch the defensive scheme to bring in the best coaching staff possible.
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    Default Re: 2013 NFL Draft thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Coc Rhakalu View Post
    The Browns were broken. We brought in a new staff to try and fix it, turns out that staff prefers the 3-4. I'd gladly switch the defensive scheme to bring in the best coaching staff possible.
    I don't know if none of you really pay attention to my posts, but it seems like it.

    If you'd kindly jump over to the Ray Horton thread and read the article I posted. This isn't necessarily the case, and we may not be switching from the 4-3 to the 3-4. Horton said it himself he doesn't prefer one over the other and that he would adapt his defense to the kind of players that they have to run it.

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    Default Re: 2013 NFL Draft thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Triplethreat View Post
    I don't know if none of you really pay attention to my posts, but it seems like it.

    If you'd kindly jump over to the Ray Horton thread and read the article I posted. This isn't necessarily the case, and we may not be switching from the 4-3 to the 3-4. Horton said it himself he doesn't prefer one over the other and that he would adapt his defense to the kind of players that they have to run it.
    I know what he said, I still think we're going to the 3-4 though. If you remember Chud's presser that's where this 3-4 talk all started. Now look at all the guys rumored for the job, with the exception of maybe Tucker, all of them are known for the 3-4 and Tucker has experience with both.
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