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  1. #136
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    Default Re: The Jonas V thread

    His last four games
    11 pts 11rb 3ast 3blk 3-6fg 25min
    16 pts 10rb 2ast 1blk 8-11fg 35min
    9 pts 6rb 1ast 2blk 3-6fg 31min
    22pts 7rb 3ast 3blk 9-13fg 39min

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  3. #137
    Send Sideshow to ASG Pioneer10's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Jonas V thread

    Quote Originally Posted by "Boobie" Gibson View Post
    Now that he's starting to scratch the surface of his potential by having one single good game, we'll forever be reminded of CG's incompetence.
    He's had a run of 4 good games in a row.

    Not claiming the sample size is near enough to make a determination either way in terms of Tristan or JV, but he's not playing like a bust which a lot of Tristan fans were saying he would be
    There is a tension, peculiar to basketball, between the interests of the team and the interests of the individual. The game continually tempts the people who play it to do things that are not in the interest of the group.
    Michael Lewis


  4. #138
    With the Left hand! TyGuy's Avatar
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    He is latvian not lithuanian, so I'm not sure how much z would have helped. Really it doesnt matter, he had no say in the matter. If we would have picked jonas he would have played for us. I think that is something we all tell ourselves for not picking the superior talent.

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  6. #139
    Hall of Famer Mdog1's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Jonas V thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Pioneer10 View Post
    He's had a run of 4 good games in a row.

    Not claiming the sample size is near enough to make a determination either way in terms of Tristan or JV, but he's not playing like a bust which a lot of Tristan fans were saying he would be
    I would have taken Jonas over Tristan.

    With that said i'm not willing to write Tristan off until at least year 4. The kid was a known project going into the draft, and he's had less than a full NBA season's worth of games under his belt, and only one training camp. Not every rookie big man is good right off the bat, in fact i'd say it's the opposite. The ones that are great players right off the bat are some of the greatest talents in NBA history, which I don't think anyone though Tristan, or Jonas would be. Tristan has a huge ceiling as a defensive big man, and his offense is just so raw that at this point we have no idea if he will be able to hit a 15 foot jumper consistantly, or if he'll brick them cosistantly.

    Let the kids play before we pass judgement. I wouldn't be surprised if Jonas is better than Tristan this year, and next year, and then Tristan makes a big jump in his fourth year. Jonas has far less room to improve than Tristan does, and if both hit their peaks Tristan will blow Jonas out of the water.

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  8. #140
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    Default Re: The Jonas V thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TyGuy View Post
    He is latvian not lithuanian, so I'm not sure how much z would have helped. Really it doesnt matter, he had no say in the matter. If we would have picked jonas he would have played for us. I think that is something we all tell ourselves for not picking the superior talent.

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    Not sure where you're getting that he's Latvian, but everything I've ever read says he's Lithuanian--including his play with the Lithuanian national team for the last few years.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonas_V...4%8Di%C5%ABnas

    http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jonas_valanciunas/

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utena

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  10. #141
    With the Left hand! TyGuy's Avatar
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    My mistake, I always thought he was latvian. Like you said, that would only make things stringer for us. Had we drafted him he would have played.

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  11. #142
    Boss of all Bosses Goldin Brown's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Jonas V thread

    Yeah probably. If not we could have just sent Big Z on his ass to get him into town. Oh well...

  12. #143
    Veteran Cavatt's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Jonas V thread

    We know the scouts the Cavs employ are big on European guys. They had thoroughly scouted Jonas, and didn't think he was the best.

    Personally, I think they took a swing on Tristan, that can't be completely judged yet. Thinking he is always going to get blocked 4 times a game could be shortsighted. He starts looking like a monster if he can convert those.

    Jonas looks to be good though, and I agree that a Center who is a beast is better than a PF with the same skills. As of now if I could choose, I would take Jonas.

    I still think Tristan could be very good. He is not a liability and he barely knows how to play. He has gotten into that scoring rhythm before too where he can't miss. He is definitely awkward, but he can use either hand. I dunno he looks like a 10 year old to me, and I think he is still working on losing his adolescent clumsiness.

  13. #144
    Hall of Famer Mdog1's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Jonas V thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Birdy89 View Post
    This is a joke, right?
    Not in the slightest. Jonas has been a professional player for years playing against players that were much better than anyone Tristan played against other than his last two years. Jonas is as close to a finished rookie as you will see in terms of potential, where as Tristan is pretty close to the rawest player you will see. Athletecism in the NBA means potential, and Jonas is far from an elite athlete, where as Tristan is a very good one.

    Let me put it this way. If Tristan gets a 15 footer, and can reach his defensive ceiling he will be the second best player from the 2011 draft. In order for Jonas to be better than Tristan he would have to improve his defense a ton. As for now i'd say Jonas is likely going to be better, but i'm talking about their ceilings, of which Tristan's is higher.

    Jonas has a higher floor though, and in a weak draft, sometimes that's more important. I mean if we were trying to make a homerun swing on potential, I would have prefered swinging at Biyombo. Oh well.

  14. #145
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    Default Re: The Jonas V thread

    The one decision that Chris Grant has made that I strongly disagreed with was taking Thompson over Valanciunas. So far I have not seen anything to make me feel differently.

    Jonas is almost a full year younger that Thompson and this is also his first exposure to American and NBA style basketball while Thompson has had far more exposure in comparison.
    The potential and ceiling if fully developed is as high or higher with Jonas than with Thompson. When I saw Tristan at Texas I wasn't overly impressed then and so far he continues to look like the level of PF the Cavs could have taken at a later spot in another draft. I just have not seen this supposed potentially great or elite level defense and rebounding that's claimed he possesses.
    One of the biggest things for me from the start has been that C is a more important and difficult position to fill than PF and that PF's are the easiest players to find. It wouldn't at all be far fetched to say Jonas could easily be at least a top 10 C in the NBA by the time he's 25 and he could be more than that.

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  16. #146
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    Default Re: The Jonas V thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RchfldCavRaised View Post


    Ive been watching all of Torontos games, and the guy is going to be good. He has a great feel for the game and plays like a traditional center with great size.

    One of my worries with him coming over, was that he would rely too heavily on jumping and not be able to do the fundamental things bigs do on boards and defensively (like the undersized pf we drafted instead of him)

    Instead, he plays great positional defense and boxes his man out more than chasing rebounds, allowing for other Toronto players to crash better. He has a great fundamental understanding of the game. Looks like Hibbert after Hibbert already had a couple years in the league and 4 years in college. Already more valuable than a Javele McGee or a DeAndre Jordan in his ability to play below the rim as a big man.
    Strongly disagree about his defensive positioning. He seems to have no clue about the rhythm of NBA basketball on the defensive end. Sure his motor is great, but it takes more than running around like a chicken with your head cut off to compete when it matters. I've seen nothing that suggests Jonas has a mental edge on the competition other than his effort.

    Like Z in Cleveland, I think Jonas can turn into a good regular season player. As for NBA playoff basketball, when the tough get going, give me a guy who can hold his ground on defense and play with the big boys. Jonas is a graceful center with skills and good determination. But that frame has a high center of gravity and will be easy to manipulate without a strong base. He can make up for a lot of that with is length but it will always be a struggle for him imo.

  17. #147
    With the Left hand! TyGuy's Avatar
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    The thing that is worrisome about chris grant is he falls in love with players and then gets tunnel vision on draft night. He did it with both tristan and waiters. I like that we take advanced metrics heavily into consideration but when we are drafting as high as we are we can't have chris focusing so heavily on one player for our draft slot.

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    Default Re: The Jonas V thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TyGuy View Post
    The thing that is worrisome about chris grant is he falls in love with players and then gets tunnel vision on draft night. He did it with both tristan and waiters. I like that we take advanced metrics heavily into consideration but when we are drafting as high as we are we can't have chris focusing so heavily on one player for our draft slot.

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    Are you indeed talking out of your ass TyGuy?

    Just curious. Is this notion you're posting about based on reports that Grant wanted these guys all along? Was there no back and forth for him/them on draft night? I'd love to know more.

    And if that's the case, is decisiveness something to be feared from a GM? "Tunnel vision" and decisiveness may not be the same thing. If he picked without hesitation, the reasons are important. If you think it's "tunnel vision" maybe you can explain why you think that?

  19. #149
    With the Left hand! TyGuy's Avatar
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    There were reports that chris grant fell in love with tristan after working him out. Next thing you know, that is the guy being picked. Coming into this draft you had our coach saying we were taking a wing after hearing rumors of dion waiters.

    There are ways of disagreeing without being an asshole.

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    Last edited by TyGuy; 11-26-2012 at 12:34 AM.

  20. #150
    Orange and Blue Doctor K's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Jonas V thread

    Advanced METRICS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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