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  1. #1861
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    Default Re: 2012-2013 Indians Offseason Thread (Mark Reynolds signed, Francona hired)

    Quote Originally Posted by BMAN View Post
    Hes probably going to start off in extended spring training so the Indians can monitor his workload.
    Agreed, Lastoria reported this.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 Indians Offseason Thread (Mark Reynolds signed, Francona hired)

    Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN
    Indians among the teams that might have interest in Michael Bourn if his price tag dropped A LOT. Lots of clubs trolling for bargains now.

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    Stylin' and Profilin' Juice Is Loose's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012-2013 Indians Offseason Thread (Mark Reynolds signed, Francona hired)

    Quote Originally Posted by JMcCurry08 View Post
    Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN
    Indians among the teams that might have interest in Michael Bourn if his price tag dropped A LOT. Lots of clubs trolling for bargains now.
    WOW, that would be huge. Brantley or Stubbs, who would be odd man out? Or you could rotate at DH with all 4 OF's.
    “Take your comebacks, write them down on a sheet of paper. Roll it up tight, soak it in water, freeze it overnight, then jam it up your ass.”

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    Keeping the Faith Stark's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012-2013 Indians Offseason Thread (Mark Reynolds signed, Francona hired)

    Brantley - Bourn - Stubbs

    Swisher solves our DH problem. It's so perfect.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 Indians Offseason Thread (Mark Reynolds signed, Francona hired)

    It amazes me Bourn is still not signed

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 Indians Offseason Thread (Mark Reynolds signed, Francona hired)

    Quote Originally Posted by JMcCurry08 View Post
    It amazes me Bourn is still not signed

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    Situational Stopper Dinner Bell Mel's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012-2013 Indians Offseason Thread (Mark Reynolds signed, Francona hired)

    Stubbs is better suited as a 4th OF anyway. It wouldn't be too hard for the tribe to make that decision. This isn't happening unless the tribe finds a way to shed salary somewhere else, which I don't expect.

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    Default Re: 2012-2013 Indians Offseason Thread (Mark Reynolds signed, Francona hired)

    I... I have no idea what Mel just posted. Never made my way over to it. I bet it was something good, too. Anyway...

    Story from the New York Post about Scott Kazmir and his comeback. He sounds like the anti-Bauer:

    http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/mets/...WxcrFKHlYlsM/0

    Former Mets prospect Kazmir tries to find way back to majors

    By MARK HALE
    HOUSTON — This has not been a fall for Scott Kazmir. It has been a plummet. A life-changing plunge from Mets superphenom to Rays ace to Angels reject.

    To out of baseball.

    At age 27.

    In 2004, Kazmir was shipped away by the Mets in one of their most catastrophic deals ever. The flamethrowing lefty emerged into not just a Rays All-Star, but a pitcher who was historically good. But over the last few years, Kazmir’s fall has been inexplicable.

    On Tuesday, though, he heads to Goodyear, Ariz., on a minor league contract with the Indians, the 29-year-old Kazmir trying to fight his way back to the majors for the first time in two years.
    F. Carter Smith for the New York

    He does not believe he merely can still pitch. As he tries to re-emerge now from disaster, Kazmir is so convinced he has solved his problems that he believes greatness awaits.

    “I think I can be one of the best pitchers in the game,” Kazmir tells The Post, sitting in the bleachers at Houston Christian HS, just days away from leaving for camp. “Hands down. I definitely believe that.”

    And that’s how he’s thinking going into his first spring training with a major league team in two years.

    “I’m gonna keep tuning myself and I’m gonna be one of the best pitchers in the game,” he says. “If it doesn’t happen [in camp], if it doesn’t happen right then, then it just wasn’t in the cards right there. I don’t know when, but it’s gonna happen. It’s gonna happen.

    “Where everything’s just gonna click and I’m gonna take off.”


    Kazmir doesn’t think this minor league contract with Cleveland is his last shot. Maybe it isn’t. After all, he’s left-handed and he used to be fantastic, and he’s only 29. And it’s not like has a criminal past or was busted for performance-enhancing drugs or has Terrell Owens’ reputation as a teammate.

    Then again, in his last 55 major league starts, he has a 5.54 ERA.

    This opportunity feels like it either could be the end, or a new beginning.

    “If his velocity’s back and his confidence is back,” Kazmir’s former pitching coach with the Angels, Mike Butcher, says, “this guy still could be an impact in the major leagues.”

    * * * * *

    KAZMIR always will be connected to New York because of where his career started — and where it didn’t. He was the Mets’ first-round pick in 2002, and when he pitched for Single-A Brooklyn that summer, he threw 18 innings, gave up one earned run and struck out 34.

    At age 18, he was named Baseball America’s best left-handed pitcher in the minor leagues.

    That year, the Mets had Kazmir, Jose Reyes and David Wright in their minor league system. But on July 30, 2004, general manager Jim Duquette shipped Kazmir to Tampa Bay as part of a package for right-handed starter Victor Zambrano.

    How dazzling did Kazmir become during the next few seasons? The next season, his first with the Rays, he joined Johan Santana and Randy Johnson as the only American League pitchers with more strikeouts than hits. Kazmir made the All-Star team in 2006, topped the league in strikeouts in 2007 and earned another All-Star nod in 2008.

    As for Zambrano? He made just three starts with the Mets in 2004, left as a free agent in 2006 and was out of baseball two years later.

    Kazmir, meanwhile, joined Pedro Martinez, CC Sabathia and Dwight Gooden as the only pitchers in 20 years to record at least 10 victories in four winning seasons before the age of 25.

    “Scott had dominating stuff,” former Angels teammate Howie Kendrick says. “It’s just a matter of whether he’s going to find it or not again.”

    * * * * *

    WHAT happened to Scott Kazmir?

    Kazmir’s big problem came about because of a small problem. He believes the issue started in spring training of 2008 when he pulled his triceps, then pulled his groin while rehabbing.

    Despite the groin injury, he wanted to pitch, so he didn’t shut himself down. He made his first start of the season on May 4.

    By pitching through the groin injury, Kazmir says he got away from using his legs and instead used only his arms. Once his groin improved and he eventually began to use his legs again.

    “It’s almost like I lost the feel for it,” he says.

    “Then you start searching for stuff,” he says. “And next thing you know, you start thinking about stuff that might be the problem that’s not the problem. And then you go from one thing to another thing and then it’s just a snowball effect. That’s what I feel like what happened.

    “And it came to the point [the last few years] where I was completely lost out there.”

    Why couldn’t he get back to what he was before the injuries?

    Despite his success, Kazmir had no idea how he had done it. He had no blueprint for his effectiveness.

    “I didn’t know how I did it. I just did it,” he says. “I didn’t know how I threw hard or anything like that. I just did it and I was successful with it.”


    He wasn’t anymore.

    In 2008, Kazmir had a 2.84 ERA through July 26. But in his final 11 starts, he posted a 4.55 ERA. In 2009, he was a mess — a 5.92 ERA before Tampa Bay shipped him to the Angels in late August.

    Kazmir was terrific after the trade — he made six starts, delivering a 1.73 ERA. He is mystified at the success.

    “Don’t know how I did it,” he says.

    In 2010, he went 9-15 with a 5.94 ERA. His former pitching coach with the Angels, Butcher believes Kazmir “had such a God-given talent that I think when he lost the feel for his pitches, he had a hard time getting it back.”

    Kazmir agrees completely.

    “I didn’t know how to fix it,” he says.


    Kazmir made one major league start the next season and allowed five runs in 12/3 innings. His average four-seam fastball that day was a middling 86.8 mph, according to Brooks Baseball. During a Triple-A rehab assignment that spring, Kazmir was demolished, going 0-5 with a 17.02 ERA and putting 48 runners on base in 15 1/3 innings. He says he was throwing 82 mph.

    On June 15, the Angels released him.

    “As soon as I got released, I knew that, OK, if I’m coming back, I’m going to make sure I’m coming back when I want to, at my pace,” Kazmir says. “I’m not just going to ‘OK, as soon as I get released, let’s sign back with some other team.’ I didn’t think it was going to get better that way.”

    * * * * *

    ATHLETES shouldn’t decline when Kazmir did. When things started to go off track in 2008, he was 24. When he was released, he was 27.

    So much for his prime — or for cashing in. Within the past 14 months, Reyes has signed for $106 million, David Wright for $138 million. Three other high school pitchers who were 2002 first-rounders with Kazmir — Zack Greinke, Cole Hamels and Matt Cain — have signed for a combined $418.5 million.

    Last July, Kazmir began pitching for the Sugar Land Skeeters in the Atlantic League.

    “I am where I am,” he says.

    Kazmir began to try to solve himself soon after being released, doing drills “from square one” to try to re-familiarize himself with what worked. By last summer, he believed he had a clue. Still, Kazmir says he passed on a Triple-A opportunity with the Cardinals, believing it wasn’t right for him yet. He wanted the security of consistent starts and feared if he struggled, the organization would tinker with him. So, he signed with Sugar Land.

    He went 3-6 with a 5.34 ERA in 14 starts — not very encouraging. But Kazmir believed he was making progress.

    “Everything was foreign to me,” he says. “I knew in my head what I needed to do. I just needed to keep doing it and doing it so it would be muscle memory instead of going through a checklist as I’m going through my delivery. Slowly but surely, it started getting better and better.”

    In November, Kazmir went to Puerto Rico to log additional innings and posted a 4.37 ERA. However, he struck out 27 in just 22 2/3 innings, said his velocity was at 94-95 mph and believed he was prepared to join a major league team.

    Besides the Indians, Kazmir says, the Dodgers, Giants, Blue Jays and Pirates were all interested.

    “This winter, we saw an uptick in his stuff, both his fastball velocity and the sharpness of his secondary stuff.,” Cleveland GM Chris Antonetti says, adding Kazmir is in the back-end-of-the-rotation derby.

    Kazmir says he does not believe he is going to spring training to get a rotation spot, saying, “I’m not thinking of it like that.”

    Nevertheless, Kazmir said he believes he will be great again. He says he used to be just a fastball-slider pitcher and now has other pitches, and he believes his velocity is going to be there.

    “I knew that if I kept working hard, I know I’d be able to get back to where I was, even better than where I was, because with all the struggles that I had, I had to learn how to pitch with 60-percent stuff. That’s hard to do,” Kazmir says. “I learned a changeup. I started learning a curveball and stuff like that.

    “Now I come back to where it feels like I’ve got so many tools in the tool box now, I feel good. I feel good about it now.”

    mark.hale@nypost.com

    Kazmir Timeline

    2002 — Drafted by the Mets with the 15th overall pick in the first round. Later that year, Kazmir pitches for the Brooklyn Cyclones and allows just one run in 18 innings (while striking out 34) and is named Baseball America’s top minor league lefty.

    July 30, 2004 — Dealt, with Jose Diaz, to Tampa Bay for Victor Zambrano and Bartolome Fortunato.

    Aug. 23, 2004 — Fires five scoreless innings in his major league debut in Seattle, the youngest pitcher in the majors (20 years, 7 months).

    2005 — Joins Johan Santana and Randy Johnson as the only AL pitchers to record more strikeouts than hits.

    2006 — Is baseball’s youngest Opening Day starter (22 years, 69 days) since Dwight Gooden in 1986. Earns an All-Star bid.

    2007 — Paces AL in strikeouts, the youngest to lead the AL since 1975.

    2008 — Is winning pitcher in the All-Star Game at Yankee Stadium. Joins Gooden, Pedro Martinez and CC Sabathia as only pitchers in 20 years to have four winning seasons with at least double-figure wins before turning 25. Leads Rays to World Series, but in final 11 starts of regular season, posts a 4.55 ERA after posting a 2.84 ERA beforehand.

    Aug. 28, 2009 — Dealt to Angels for minor leaguers after posting a 5.92 ERA in 20 starts for the Rays. Goes 2-2 with a 1.73 ERA in six starts for the Angels.

    2010 — Ranks second in baseball with 15 losses and has an ERA of 5.94. On July 10 in Oakland, surrenders 13 runs in five innings.

    April 3, 2011 — Lasts just 1 ²/3 innings and allows five runs in only major league start of the year. Has not been in majors since.

    June 15, 2011 — Is released by Angels.

    2012 — Goes 3-6 with a 5.34 ERA in 14 starts for the Sugar Land Skeeters in the independent Atlantic League.

    Jan. 8, 2013 — Signs a minor league contract with the Indians.
    Over/under on fans reading this and then instantly having absurd expectations of Kazmir?
    Last edited by macbdog; 02-05-2013 at 03:43 PM.

  9. #1869
    Hall of Famer AZ_'s Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012-2013 Indians Offseason Thread (Mark Reynolds signed, Francona hired)

    Quote Originally Posted by JMcCurry08 View Post
    It amazes me Bourn is still not signed
    Nobody wants to give up a first round pick for a guy who has never had an OPS over .739 and is a speed guy on the wrong side of 30.

    We've seen how those types of players age, and it isn't good.

    The Indians could have interest on a 2-3 year deal, but it's going to cost them more draft pick money and their third round pick.

    Also, now you have to tell the guy you just bent over backwards to sign that he can't play the field anymore (something he really likes to do).

    I really don't see this ending up as a fit and he'll get priced out to the Mets if they can swing a deal to keep their first round pick (I think they're still waiting word on that whole saga).
    Manziel's reps also insist it's a hoax -- and he's never made a penis video on "It's a Small World" or any other Disney ride.
    Quote Originally Posted by CavsFanLA View Post
    a skill that probably fits well in the world of PR where you want to listen tothe opinion of someone who thinks they know more than you

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    I just got a semi macbdog's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012-2013 Indians Offseason Thread (Mark Reynolds signed, Francona hired)

    Quote Originally Posted by b00bie View Post
    Nobody wants to give up a first round pick for a guy who has never had an OPS over .739 and is a speed guy on the wrong side of 30.

    We've seen how those types of players age, and it isn't good.

    The Indians could have interest on a 2-3 year deal, but it's going to cost them more draft pick money and their third round pick.

    Also, now you have to tell the guy you just bent over backwards to sign that he can't play the field anymore (something he really likes to do).

    I really don't see this ending up as a fit and he'll get priced out to the Mets if they can swing a deal to keep their first round pick (I think they're still waiting word on that whole saga).
    Um.... Swisher doesn't get bumped from the OF if you sign Bourn- Brantley and Stubbs go into a platoon. Swisher is a more than capable defender in RF. If they want, late in games they can rotate Swisher to 1B and bring in whoever didn't start that day. But Brantley has a rag arm, and you don't bump Swisher for him when you can instead improve the LF defense by moving Stubbs over.

    And Bourn is a big long shot, but I don't see the Tribe having a problem surrendering the 100k or so in bonus money that goes with the 3rd rounder. The Swisher signing was a wash- they lost their 2nd rounder, but already had gained a supplemental 2nd rounder earlier. It would be their first actual loss of draft pick pool money. If the Bourn contract is favorable (Im thinking more like a one year deal with a team option) I could see the Tribe biting on that.

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    Hall of Famer AZ_'s Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012-2013 Indians Offseason Thread (Mark Reynolds signed, Francona hired)

    Quote Originally Posted by macbdog View Post
    Um.... Swisher doesn't get bumped from the OF if you sign Bourn- Brantley and Stubbs go into a platoon. Swisher is a more than capable defender in RF. If they want, late in games they can rotate Swisher to 1B and bring in whoever didn't start that day. But Brantley has a rag arm, and you don't bump Swisher for him when you can instead improve the LF defense by moving Stubbs over.

    And Bourn is a big long shot, but I don't see the Tribe having a problem surrendering the 100k or so in bonus money that goes with the 3rd rounder. The Swisher signing was a wash- they lost their 2nd rounder, but already had gained a supplemental 2nd rounder earlier. It would be their first actual loss of draft pick pool money. If the Bourn contract is favorable (Im thinking more like a one year deal with a team option) I could see the Tribe biting on that.
    I think if they were to sign Bourn, you're going to be starting Brantley, Swisher, Bourn and Stubbs. Any of those guys would be given the opportunity to start over Aviles on a daily basis, and based on the defensive prowess of the four mentioned, Swisher is going to be last on that list IMO.

    You also have to wonder what is the value of 1-year of Michael Bourn to this franchise. While I'm all for the idea that this team surprises and makes a run, giving up pool money and a draft pick money who may or may not be here in 2014 just doesn't seem all that prudent.
    Manziel's reps also insist it's a hoax -- and he's never made a penis video on "It's a Small World" or any other Disney ride.
    Quote Originally Posted by CavsFanLA View Post
    a skill that probably fits well in the world of PR where you want to listen tothe opinion of someone who thinks they know more than you

  12. #1872
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    Default Re: 2012-2013 Indians Offseason Thread (Mark Reynolds signed, Francona hired)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dinner Bell Mel View Post
    Stubbs is better suited as a 4th OF anyway. It wouldn't be too hard for the tribe to make that decision. This isn't happening unless the tribe finds a way to shed salary somewhere else, which I don't expect.
    Good God man, you need to post more, if only to see your avatar. And maybe think about a complementary sig.
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    ...back on the weed... Gunther's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012-2013 Indians Offseason Thread (Mark Reynolds signed, Francona hired)

    Quote Originally Posted by macbdog View Post
    I... I have no idea what Mel just posted. Never made my way over to it. I bet it was something good, too. Anyway...

    Story from the New York Post about Scott Kazmir and his comeback. He sounds like the anti-Bauer:

    http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/mets/...WxcrFKHlYlsM/0



    Over/under on fans reading this and then instantly having absurd expectations of Kazmir?

    Over-confidence is a good thing . . . isn't it??

    “I’m gonna keep tuning myself and I’m gonna be one of the best pitchers in the game,” he says. “If it doesn’t happen [in camp], if it doesn’t happen right then, then it just wasn’t in the cards right there. I don’t know when, but it’s gonna happen. It’s gonna happen.

    “Where everything’s just gonna click and I’m gonna take off.”
    . . . yup, a good thing.
    "If you will suck my soul, I will lick your funky emotions."
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    Default Re: 2012-2013 Indians Offseason Thread (Mark Reynolds signed, Francona hired)

    Indians come to terms with Aviles, the last of the arbitration-eligibles this year. Two year deal with club option for a third.


    "If you will suck my soul, I will lick your funky emotions."
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    Default Re: 2012-2013 Indians Offseason Thread (Mark Reynolds signed, Francona hired)

    @hoynsie
    Indians invite rich hill to spring training

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