2012-2013 Indians Red Hot Offseason Thread (Bourn signed post 1940)

[Amherstcavsfan]

Dice-K is actually a pretty decent bet.

Last year he was horrific, I'm pretty sure due to injury, and every year outside of last year, he was better on the road than at home. He could easily be a 4-5 starter in the rotation next year, which would be pretty solid.

Lohse...I would take him if he were willing to take a 1-2 year deal for around 10 mill a year. But someone will probably overpay him and I cant imagine this team has much more to spend.

[JiggleIt]

So which of the big signings gets hurt first? I'm predicting Bourn, in spite of previous health.

[shoes22]

I'm not a big fan of Tomlin anyways.

I really want to see how Carrasco rebounds. As of now, here is my best guess at the Opening Day rotation:

1. Masterson
2. Jimenez
3. Myers
4. McAllister
5. Carrasco

That's probably correct. If one of Dice-K or Kazmir still has gas left in the tank, he can be used as a spot starter or long relief. I think both of them are bullpen guys at this point in their careers.
When one of the guys in our rotation inevitably flames out, (probably Ubaldo, but in all honesty could be any of them) we'll have Bauer waiting in the wings to take over around May or so.

So which of the big signings gets hurt first? I'm predicting Bourn, in spite of previous health.

Does Giambi count? I don't think he even makes the team.

[Pyro]

So which of the big signings gets hurt first? I'm predicting Bourn, in spite of previous health.

I'm disappointed that this is your first post since the news. I have come to expect so much more from you, something along the lines of...

14-148.

[SRStark20]

So which of the big signings gets hurt first? I'm predicting Bourn, in spite of previous health.

Gonna say Brett Myers, because with our luck, we'll lose a guy we desperately need.

[Tecumseh]

@hoynsie: Daisuke Matsuzaka just got done throwing long toss to #ndians coach Kevin Cash in front of 23 Japanese reporters. Physical ongoing.

@Ken_Rosenthal: #Indians go from maybe one of 3 worst OF defenses to maybe one of 3 best. Stubbs, Brantley ability to play CF may create value at deadline.

[sgm405]

http://castrovince.mlblogs.com/2010/...r-to-reveal-2/

I know I said I wouldn’t be blogging for a few days, but that was before I opened*this morning’s Cleveland Plain Dealer*to find a 6-foot-7, 290-pound man sticking his size-15 foot in his mouth.This was what AL All-Star CC Sabathia had to say when asked about the disintegration of the 2007 Cleveland Indians team that fell a win shy of the World Series:“That wasn’t our fault,” Sabathia said. “They traded us. That’s on them.”Sabathia went on to say, “If [ownership] had kept everybody for at least two more years, I think we had a chance of having a really good team.”

Is Sabathia delusional? Or is he merely the latest member of the Yankees to “misremember” something?I’ll submit that neither is the case. Sabathia, you see, is taking advantage of the opportunity the July 2008 trade that sent him to Milwaukee afforded him to divorce himself from all blame or finger-pointing and to feed off the raw emotions of those who have done little to nothing to understand the Indians’ economic position in an unbalanced marketplace.Sabathia says something insipid like, “It’s on them,” because he’ll say anything to avoid looking like the bad guy.

And this isn’t the first time.Throughout the phantom contract negotiation process before the 2008 season, when it was clear the Indians were as likely to get Sabathia to commit to a long-term deal as they were to throw a dome on Progressive Field, CC would say things like, “Hopefully we can get something done.”* Because that was a lot easier and less publicly damaging than saying, “The Indians have no chance of offering me the kind of money I feel I’m worth.”In the winter before the ’08 season, when the Indians offered Sabathia around $18 million a year through 2012 — the largest offer the franchise has ever come up with for a player — he didn’t so much as sleep on it. He knew he was gone, and he broke off negotiations before they even started in Spring Training.

This is the reality. But now, two and a half years later, CC — which, in this case, stands for Clouded Context — is selling a fantasy. An alternate universe in which those heinous, loveless Indians owners cast him out of the place he loved.It’s baloney.Essentially, Sabathia got lucky. Because 50 years from now, Indians fans won’t remember him as the guy who walked away from the Tribe for the big payday elsewhere. He won’t go down with the likes of Albert Belle, Manny Ramirez and Jim Thome. Rather, he’ll be remembered as the Cy Young winner the Indians stupidly dealt in his prime.

Nevermind, of course, that the Indians were forced to deal Sabathia because he was going to walk away three months later and because he and his teammates crumbled upon the weight of expectations in 2008. Nevermind that the primary reason that ’07 team — a “good team” in its own right, having won 96 games in the regular season — didn’t ascend to the World Series like it should have was because Sabathia was outpitched in Games 1 and 5.If Sabathia were being honest with himself and honest with the fans, he would have said, “This is a business, and it’s difficult for a team in a smaller market like Cleveland to afford to keep its core intact. That’s why it’s a shame we weren’t able to take advantage of the special opportunity we had in ’07. And as the ace of that pitching staff, I take the brunt of the blame.”

Fat chance of the big man uttering those words.Sabathia was treated very well here. The Indians drafted him, gave him a Major League opportunity on a playoff team when he was just 20 years old, helped mold him into a man off the field, taught him to control his emotions on it and groomed him into a Cy Young winner. Lord knows they fed him well.That’s what makes CC’s comments above so disappointing. They reek of him being*another pampered athlete*with no grasp of reality or understanding of accountability.In my view, the player-fan relationship is pretty simple. You earn our appreciation by giving your best effort on the field. Off the field, by all means, seek out your worth, find a place that you find rewarding on a personal, professional and competitive level. Chase every last dollar for you and your kids and your kids’ kids and your kids’ kids’ kids. It’s your right as a talented athlete in a lucrative game.

But please, whatever you do and wherever you go, don’t insult our intelligence along the way.

[SRStark20]

2012 Opening Day Starting Lineup

CF - Brantley
SS - Cabrera
RF - Choo
C - Santana
DH - Hafner
LF - Duncan
1B - Kotchman
2B - Kipnis
3B - Hannahan

2013 Opening Day Projected Lineup

CF - Bourn
2B - Kipnis
SS - Cabrera
1B - Swisher
C - Santana
DH - Reynolds
LF - Brantley
RF - Stubbs
3B - Chisenhall

[Gunther]

http://castrovince.mlblogs.com/2010/...r-to-reveal-2/

I know I said I wouldn’t be blogging for a few days, but that was before I opened*this morning’s Cleveland Plain Dealer*to find a 6-foot-7, 290-pound man sticking his size-15 foot in his mouth.This was what AL All-Star CC Sabathia had to say when asked about the disintegration of the 2007 Cleveland Indians team that fell a win shy of the World Series:“That wasn’t our fault,” Sabathia said. “They traded us. That’s on them.”Sabathia went on to say, “If [ownership] had kept everybody for at least two more years, I think we had a chance of having a really good team.”

Is Sabathia delusional? Or is he merely the latest member of the Yankees to “misremember” something?I’ll submit that neither is the case. Sabathia, you see, is taking advantage of the opportunity the July 2008 trade that sent him to Milwaukee afforded him to divorce himself from all blame or finger-pointing and to feed off the raw emotions of those who have done little to nothing to understand the Indians’ economic position in an unbalanced marketplace.Sabathia says something insipid like, “It’s on them,” because he’ll say anything to avoid looking like the bad guy.

And this isn’t the first time.Throughout the phantom contract negotiation process before the 2008 season, when it was clear the Indians were as likely to get Sabathia to commit to a long-term deal as they were to throw a dome on Progressive Field, CC would say things like, “Hopefully we can get something done.”* Because that was a lot easier and less publicly damaging than saying, “The Indians have no chance of offering me the kind of money I feel I’m worth.”In the winter before the ’08 season, when the Indians offered Sabathia around $18 million a year through 2012 — the largest offer the franchise has ever come up with for a player — he didn’t so much as sleep on it. He knew he was gone, and he broke off negotiations before they even started in Spring Training.

This is the reality. But now, two and a half years later, CC — which, in this case, stands for Clouded Context — is selling a fantasy. An alternate universe in which those heinous, loveless Indians owners cast him out of the place he loved.It’s baloney.Essentially, Sabathia got lucky. Because 50 years from now, Indians fans won’t remember him as the guy who walked away from the Tribe for the big payday elsewhere. He won’t go down with the likes of Albert Belle, Manny Ramirez and Jim Thome. Rather, he’ll be remembered as the Cy Young winner the Indians stupidly dealt in his prime.

Nevermind, of course, that the Indians were forced to deal Sabathia because he was going to walk away three months later and because he and his teammates crumbled upon the weight of expectations in 2008. Nevermind that the primary reason that ’07 team — a “good team” in its own right, having won 96 games in the regular season — didn’t ascend to the World Series like it should have was because Sabathia was outpitched in Games 1 and 5.If Sabathia were being honest with himself and honest with the fans, he would have said, “This is a business, and it’s difficult for a team in a smaller market like Cleveland to afford to keep its core intact. That’s why it’s a shame we weren’t able to take advantage of the special opportunity we had in ’07. And as the ace of that pitching staff, I take the brunt of the blame.”

Fat chance of the big man uttering those words.Sabathia was treated very well here. The Indians drafted him, gave him a Major League opportunity on a playoff team when he was just 20 years old, helped mold him into a man off the field, taught him to control his emotions on it and groomed him into a Cy Young winner. Lord knows they fed him well.That’s what makes CC’s comments above so disappointing. They reek of him being*another pampered athlete*with no grasp of reality or understanding of accountability.In my view, the player-fan relationship is pretty simple. You earn our appreciation by giving your best effort on the field. Off the field, by all means, seek out your worth, find a place that you find rewarding on a personal, professional and competitive level. Chase every last dollar for you and your kids and your kids’ kids and your kids’ kids’ kids. It’s your right as a talented athlete in a lucrative game.

But please, whatever you do and wherever you go, don’t insult our intelligence along the way.

I was wondering if anyone would rip CC a new one for that comment. Glad to see Castrovince has some balls.

[SRStark20]

Familiar Faces in New Places (Hafner, Choo, Donald, Hannahan, Sipp)

[SRStark20]

R - Matt Albers (age 30) - 3-1, 2.39 ERA, 44 K, 60.1 IP in 63 appearances with Boston and Arizona

Got him in the Choo deal if I'm correct. Nobody's really talking about him. I'd love to put this guy in that bullpen too. Between Albers, Pestano, Perez, Smith, Shaw, and another fill in guy or two, we could have a very good bullpen.

[Stephen]

R - Matt Albers (age 30) - 3-1, 2.39 ERA, 44 K, 60.1 IP in 63 appearances with Boston and Arizona

Got him in the Choo deal if I'm correct. Nobody's really talking about him. I'd love to put this guy in that bullpen too. Between Albers, Pestano, Perez, Smith, Shaw, and another fill in guy or two, we could have a very good bullpen.

This bullpen figures to be excellent. And I said this when they acquired Aviles and Stubbs, I'm curious as to whether they will use their extra roster spot (thanks to the multi-functionality of MA and DS) to put an extra arm in the bullpen especially given the uncertainty of the starting staff.

Roster spot locked up:
Chris Perez
Vinnie Pestano
Joe Smith
Matt Albers (no options)

On the bubble:
Cody Allen
Scott Barnes (L)
Nick Hagadone (L)
Frank Herrmann
David Huff (L) (no options)
Bryan Shaw
Blake Wood (injured)

NRI on the bubble:
Matt Capps
Rich Hill (L)


Taking three or four names from that list (minus Wood, who heads to extended) is going to be a heck of a battle. Two of them are probably going to be lefties, so the battle between the four lefties is going to be interesting.

Shaw is absolute death to righties, and can really be an asset but still has options left. Matt Capps could take David Huff's spot on the 40-man with a good spring and has closer experience pitching in what would probably be a 6th-7th inning role.

Needless to say, the bullpen figures to be strong, and deep.

[SRStark20]

Here is my best attempt at trying to guess what the 25 man opening day roster is going to be.

OF - Michael Brantley
OF - Michael Bourn
OF - Drew Stubbs
OF/1B - Nick Swisher

C/1B - Carlos Santana
C - Lou Marson

1B/DH - Mark Reynolds
2B - Jason Kipnis
SS - Asdrubal Cabrera
3B - Lonnie Chisenhall
IF - Mike Aviles
IF - Yan Gomes

SP - Justin Masterson
SP - Ubaldo Jiminez
SP - Brett Myers
SP - Zach McAllister
SP - Carlos Carrasco

SP/RP - Daisuke Matsuzaka
RP - Joe Smith
RP - Vinnie Pestano
RP - Matt Albers
RP - Rich Hill
RP - Bryan Shaw
RP - Scott Barnes
CP - Chris Perez

[Stephen]

Here is my best attempt at trying to guess what the 25 man opening day roster is going to be.

OF - Michael Brantley
OF - Michael Bourn
OF - Drew Stubbs
OF/1B - Nick Swisher

C/1B - Carlos Santana
C - Lou Marson

1B/DH - Mark Reynolds
2B - Jason Kipnis
SS - Asdrubal Cabrera
3B - Lonnie Chisenhall
IF - Mike Aviles
IF - Yan Gomes

SP - Justin Masterson
SP - Ubaldo Jiminez
SP - Brett Myers
SP - Zach McAllister
SP - Carlos Carrasco

SP/RP - Daisuke Matsuzaka
RP - Joe Smith
RP - Vinnie Pestano
RP - Matt Albers
RP - Rich Hill
RP - Bryan Shaw
RP - Scott Barnes
CP - Chris Perez

So, which two are you cutting to get Rich Hill and Dice-K on the roster. Rich Hill definitely faces an uphill battle IMO.

[macbdog]

Dice-K is actually a pretty decent bet.

Last year he was horrific, I'm pretty sure due to injury, and every year outside of last year, he was better on the road than at home. He could easily be a 4-5 starter in the rotation next year, which would be pretty solid.

Lohse...I would take him if he were willing to take a 1-2 year deal for around 10 mill a year. But someone will probably overpay him and I cant imagine this team has much more to spend.

I'll have to disagree on Daisuke. He had poor control well before the Tommy John and was a nibbler from the day he got to the bigs. He put in alot of 6 inning games because he didn't trust his stuff. To stick, even if his stuff is back, he has to overcome those old tendencies. That kind of lack of command and trust in his stuff- again, it predated his injuries- is a big hurdle to overcome. Well worth the risk on a minor league contract, but a big reason why I can't say he is a 'good' bet per se. I get where you are coming from though.

And I agree on Lohse, some team will have a starter go down and some team will get stupid. He will find his money, he just has to be willing to wait it out.