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  1. #241
    Banņed caf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anderson Varejao Trade Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    All I want is that Toronto pick out of Anderson. I'd be happy.
    I wouldn't be opposed. I like their protection. It basically ensures it's a lottery pick.

    If I'm CG though I am play hardball and trying to get Lamb thrown in there too. He has to be happy with the showcasing Andy has been doing lately.

  2. #242
    Practice Squad PH89's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anderson Varejao Trade Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by LNance View Post
    OKC would never do that trade!

    AV/Filler/both 13' 2nd picks or 15' Heat 1st

    for

    Perk/PJ3/Toronto Pick



    Martin is the short term fix at SG while Lamb is the long term
    This is going to be a bit long, just a heads up.

    This seems to be a more plausible scenario than the others that have been discussed (particularly those that include Lamb, who I think was the key piece, of all the other assets (Martin and TOR pick) in the OKC-Houston trade. A few things strike me as important when thinking about an CLE-OKC trade around Perkins and Varejao:

    1. OKC's Competing in the West this year.

    With the Lakers' rough start (and even anticipating them picking it up by the playoffs) and their familiarity with the Spurs, I think OKC has to be confident that even with the Harden trade, they are in a position to win the West. Kevin Martin has played very well for them in his role. He's certainly not the ball-handler/creator that Harden was/is, but the production lost between the two guards within OKC's offense has not been severe enough to relegate the Thunder out of a favored position to win the West.

    With Maynor serving as the second unit's initiator, Harden's creative abilities are, to an extent, covered. Consequently (channeling my inner AC), I think there is good reason to believe OKC would be buyers in the trade market driven by the belief that they are only missing one more piece - particularly for a hustle big who doesn't need the ball to be effective and influence the game in a positive way. Imagine the value of extra possessions AV would give OKC compared to Cleveland -- he wouldn't be giving the ball back to Irving/Waiters/Gee, but to Westbrook/Martin/Durant.

    An extra thought: perhaps with OKC anticipating Martin leaving after this year (unless he plays so well that they are willing to sign him long term), there may be a slight drop off in the competitiveness of the Thunder with Lamb taking on his role in 2013-2014. This may add to OKC's willingness to buy this year, as opposed to others.

    2. Ben's Twitter Post about CLE's reaction to OKC-HOU trade




    So, obviously the Cavs value Lamb, Martin, and that TOR pick. Moreover, they obviously had some interest in Harden (even if CLE wasn't interested in signing him to a max deal) -- so using a quasi-transposition property, I think you can gauge the Cavs' interest in the prospect of trading a player like AV for some of the assets of that OKC-HOU trade. Would Cleveland trade AV for Harden? Would Cleveland trade AV for Martin, Lamb, and the TOR pick?

    I know these are fairly gross simplifications, but they might be helpful in getting a sense of what the Cavs front office specifically values (particular assets, like that TOR pick) on the market. I don't think AV has the value of a Harden, for obvious reasons. Nevertheless, with Perry Jones already already being relegated to a filler role on this current OKC roster and Lamb pegged as the future SG, I think the idea of Perry Jones rather than Lamb as a trade piece is understandable.

    3. About Perry Jones III's fit on the current Cavs roster

    (Channeling my inner Eli) I was not on board with the prospect of drafting Perry Jones in the top 15 of the draft. I did not think, with the composition of the Cavs roster as it was a few months ago, that he would be a good fit. That said, with two initiators/attackers/creators on the Cavs in Irving and Waiters, I think Perry Jones would be a potentially great/productive fit in our current rotation.

    He would not have the scoring responsibility he would have otherwise had on a Cavs roster that did not feature Waiters and Irving. He is versatile as a SF/PF (the Cavs like players who can play multiple spots), and would fit well into the pick and pop/high post game in Byron Scott's offense. I'm not sure I see him as starting SF or PF, but in the case he were to play PF, the Cavs could move TT to the bench in a role more suitable for him and invest in young big in the draft (be it Noel, Austin, Zeller, Len) - and not worry as much about a lack of offense compared to if TT were in that lineup.

    Quick Note: you have to believe OKC, if they were really interested in Varejao, would be more willing to discuss Jones more than Lamb (considered the current adequacy of OKC's roster at SF/PF - re: Durant). So, like I said above, AV doesn't have the same value as Harden. Likewise, Jones doesn't have the value of Lamb. I see a possible compromise between CLE and OKC considering these players' values.

    4. Reggie Jackson and Eric Maynor

    This is a bit of a pipe dream, but if AV keeps on playing at the level he is, it may not end up being one. The Thunder need to decide whether or not they are going to re-up Eric Maynor. My guess is that they will want to, especially considering his more important role that Harden is gone, Martin isn't the ball-handler Harden is, and neither is Lamb. If they do re-sign him (and there will be a competitive market for him, I imagine), that leaves Reggie Jackson, their 1st round pick out of BC a few years ago, 3rd on the depth chart.

    I do not need to go into detail about the casserole of nonsense that is the Cavs bench - we all know this. Jackson would be a welcome addition to the roster and rotation (with respect to both his youth and positional value) - and, if OKC decides to commit to Maynor by midseason, may be a viable trade candidate.

    ________________________________

    All this said, a potential trade I could imagine happening between the Cavs and Thunder is something like this:

    Varejao
    Gibson
    SAC 1st (Windhorst mentioned in the RCF podcast that he imagined Cleveland would look to trade this pick)
    MIA 1st or ORL 2nd?

    for

    TOR 1st
    Perry Jones III
    Kendrick Perkins
    Reggie Jackson


  3. #243
    So we come to it at last Chris's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anderson Varejao Trade Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by cafemerald View Post
    I wouldn't be opposed. I like their protection. It basically ensures it's a lottery pick.

    If I'm CG though I am play hardball and trying to get Lamb thrown in there too. He has to be happy with the showcasing Andy has been doing lately.
    Totally agree on that point.

    The Cavs will need to start building a bench at some point. Guys like Jones/Lamb could be the sixth and seventh men we're looking for (or more...who knows?).

    But the Toronto pick would be the prize, IMO.

  4. #244
    Vatreni Smooth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anderson Varejao Trade Ideas

    Something I was toying around with...

    Basis of the idea for this trade: Utah will ultimately have to decide between Millsap and Jefferson; Cleveland needs to add a big man to their core and Varejao is likely on the block; OKC needs an upgrade upfront...

    Picks can be added to make this more even, but this is along the lines of what I was thinking:

    CAVALIERS
    CLE out: Anderson Varejao, Omri Casspi, Samardo Samuels, ORL '13 2nd round pick
    CLE in: Paul Millsap, Kendrick Perkins

    THUNDER
    OKC out: Kendrick Perkins, Perry Jones III/Jeremy Lamb, Reggie Jackson
    OKC in: Anderson Varejao, Raja Bell, Jamaal Tinsley, Samardo Samuels

    JAZZ
    UTAH out: Paul Millsap, Raja Bell, Jamaal Tinsley
    UTAH in: Perry Jones III/Jeremy Lamb, Reggie Jackson, Omri Casspi, ORL '13 2nd round pick

    Like I said, this could be switched around some but the main part of my idea was Varejao going to OKC, Perkins and Millsap going to CLE and PJ3/Lamb, Jackson and other pieces going to Utah....

    This is unless Utah would be interested in some type of Varejao for Millsap type deal...
    Last edited by Smooth; 11-15-2012 at 02:57 AM.

  5. #245
    ****face Damage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anderson Varejao Trade Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyrie To The View Post
    Yeah I wasn't gonna say anything...but DeAndre Jordan is one of the worst ideas I've seen yet lol.
    Don't be an idiot. Do some research. Jordan has been one of the most improved players in the NBA this season. His minutes have decreased and his production has increased. PER 36 of 15/12 & 2.5 blocks. He's only 24 and he's as awesome of a locker room guy as Andy is.

    Someone bitched about the contract, that he isn't "worth" $10 mill/year. 12/8, fantastic leadership, 1st team all NBA type defense, tremendous growth as a player, only 24...and he isn't worth $10 million? C'mon...

    No mention of Eric Bledsoe either, another guy who has improved dramatically? Or how about the Clippers 1st rounder? Yea, shitty trade idea. Hold out for a lotto pick as you said. Cause that would be better than 3 players.

  6. #246
    ****face Damage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anderson Varejao Trade Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by RikSmits View Post
    There is an article at Cavs: the blog addressing some of the myths or truths surrounding Andy and the reasons for trading him or not. There are some interesting bits in there, especially regarding age vs. mileage:


    HERE is the link to the article.

    Good article. But for fucks sake, I wish people would stop using,"The Curious Case of _____________" as a title.

  7. #247
    ****face Damage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anderson Varejao Trade Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Smooth View Post
    Something I was toying around with...

    Basis of the idea for this trade: Utah will ultimately have to decide between Millsap and Jefferson; Cleveland needs to add a big man to their core and Varejao is likely on the block; OKC needs an upgrade upfront...

    Picks can be added to make this more even, but this is along the lines of what I was thinking:

    CAVALIERS
    CLE out: Anderson Varejao, Omri Casspi, Samardo Samuels, ORL '13 2nd round pick
    CLE in: Paul Millsap, Kendrick Perkins

    THUNDER
    OKC out: Kendrick Perkins, Perry Jones III/Jeremy Lamb, Reggie Jackson
    OKC in: Anderson Varejao, Raja Bell, Jamaal Tinsley, Samardo Samuels

    JAZZ
    UTAH out: Paul Millsap, Raja Bell, Jamaal Tinsley
    UTAH in: Perry Jones III/Jeremy Lamb, Reggie Jackson, Omri Casspi, ORL '13 2nd round pick

    Like I said, this could be switched around some but the main part of my idea was Varejao going to OKC, Perkins and Millsap going to CLE and PJ3/Lamb, Jackson and other pieces going to Utah....

    This is unless Utah would be interested in some type of Varejao for Millsap type deal...
    So no picks? Cause that would be about as pointless of a trade for the Cavs as there could possibly be.

    Don't get me wrong - I like Millsap a lot and have championed for the Cavs to get him. But in the off-season and not via a trade, where he has 0 years left. I get why the Thunder do this move. Same with the Jazz. But why would we take on salary, get older, and still miss the playoffs & not have Andy next year (the best player in this deal, btw)?

    This makes the team worse for the short term and the long term. The only pieces I'm interested from Utah (via trade, mind you) would be Enes Kanter & Favors (both untouchable, imo). Wanna Sign Millsap in the off-season? Awesome, me too.

  8. #248
    Veteran Triumph36's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anderson Varejao Trade Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Damage View Post
    Don't be an idiot. Do some research. Jordan has been one of the most improved players in the NBA this season. His minutes have decreased and his production has increased. PER 36 of 15/12 & 2.5 blocks. He's only 24 and he's as awesome of a locker room guy as Andy is.

    Someone bitched about the contract, that he isn't "worth" $10 mill/year. 12/8, fantastic leadership, 1st team all NBA type defense, tremendous growth as a player, only 24...and he isn't worth $10 million? C'mon...

    No mention of Eric Bledsoe either, another guy who has improved dramatically? Or how about the Clippers 1st rounder? Yea, shitty trade idea. Hold out for a lotto pick as you said. Cause that would be better than 3 players.
    Lol, quality > quantity. Omg 3 players!!!! That isn't relevant at all.

    LAC has no reason to do this. They become far older and not a whole lot better. Not exactly what a young team needs to do.

    Bledsoe isnt that appealing. He's a very good defender yes but not really a PG and obv would be restricted mins playing behind the cavs franchise player.

    I like Jordan but that adds another offensively limited young big when the cavs need the opposite.

    Their pick doesn't add a ton of incentive to the deal

  9. #249
    ****face Damage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anderson Varejao Trade Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Triumph36 View Post
    Lol, quality > quantity. Omg 3 players!!!! That isn't relevant at all.

    LAC has no reason to do this. They become far older and not a whole lot better. Not exactly what a young team needs to do.

    Bledsoe isnt that appealing. He's a very good defender yes but not really a PG and obv would be restricted mins playing behind the cavs franchise player.

    I like Jordan but that adds another offensively limited young big when the cavs need the opposite.

    Their pick doesn't add a ton of incentive to the deal
    I don't disagree with your stance on the Clippers side or Jordan, but...

    Tell me how Bledsoe isn't appealing? He's a combo guard and a back up guard, something we desperately need. Plus he's actually efficient on the offensive side and, as you said, is an extremely good defender. Again, what's not appealing?

    As for Jordan, not sure if you saw my original post but this would demand the Cavs to go after a scoring PF in Free Agency or the draft.

    The pick is just another asset. Of course quality>quantity, but the quality we'd receive isn't chump change. Bledsoe & Jordan would be 2 excellent, young pieces.

    And nobody is going to give up a lotto pick for Anderson cause the teams interested in Anderson won't be in the lottery.

  10. #250
    Rising Star "Boobie" Gibson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anderson Varejao Trade Ideas

    Running out the door, don't have time to check.

    What are the parameters of Rudy Gay's contract? I know it wouldn't be possible, especially this year, but maybe in the future/when his contract is up? Which would be in...?

    I really like the idea of Irving, Waiters, Gay

  11. #251
    ****face Damage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anderson Varejao Trade Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by "Boobie" Gibson View Post
    Running out the door, don't have time to check.

    What are the parameters of Rudy Gay's contract? I know it wouldn't be possible, especially this year, but maybe in the future/when his contract is up? Which would be in...?

    I really like the idea of Irving, Waiters, Gay
    The way is rolling, there is no way Rudy Gay is getting traded. That team is incredible

  12. #252
    Miracle of Richfield daytripper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anderson Varejao Trade Ideas

    I keep seeing people include the Miami pick(LA swap pick) and the Orlando 2nd rounder as trade filler in possible trades. Actually I would be really surprised if Grant deals either one of those picks as they don't have much value other than filler at this point. The real value of those picks is combining them on draft day to move up the way they did for Zeller.

    Now I could see them dealing the protected Sacramento pick.

  13. #253
    Miracle of Richfield daytripper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anderson Varejao Trade Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Smooth View Post
    Something I was toying around with...

    Basis of the idea for this trade: Utah will ultimately have to decide between Millsap and Jefferson; Cleveland needs to add a big man to their core and Varejao is likely on the block; OKC needs an upgrade upfront...

    Picks can be added to make this more even, but this is along the lines of what I was thinking:

    CAVALIERS
    CLE out: Anderson Varejao, Omri Casspi, Samardo Samuels, ORL '13 2nd round pick
    CLE in: Paul Millsap, Kendrick Perkins

    THUNDER
    OKC out: Kendrick Perkins, Perry Jones III/Jeremy Lamb, Reggie Jackson
    OKC in: Anderson Varejao, Raja Bell, Jamaal Tinsley, Samardo Samuels

    JAZZ
    UTAH out: Paul Millsap, Raja Bell, Jamaal Tinsley
    UTAH in: Perry Jones III/Jeremy Lamb, Reggie Jackson, Omri Casspi, ORL '13 2nd round pick

    Like I said, this could be switched around some but the main part of my idea was Varejao going to OKC, Perkins and Millsap going to CLE and PJ3/Lamb, Jackson and other pieces going to Utah....

    This is unless Utah would be interested in some type of Varejao for Millsap type deal...
    Even if Millsap wasn't going to be a free agent next summer I would be extremely pissed if the Cavs traded Andy for Millsap. Andy is better than Millsap and then the Cavs would be expected to take on Perkins contract too? No way..just no. Take Utah out of the deal.

  14. #254
    Time For A Title Rob's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anderson Varejao Trade Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Damage View Post
    Don't be an idiot. Do some research. Jordan has been one of the most improved players in the NBA this season. His minutes have decreased and his production has increased. PER 36 of 15/12 & 2.5 blocks. He's only 24 and he's as awesome of a locker room guy as Andy is.

    Someone bitched about the contract, that he isn't "worth" $10 mill/year. 12/8, fantastic leadership, 1st team all NBA type defense, tremendous growth as a player, only 24...and he isn't worth $10 million? C'mon...

    No mention of Eric Bledsoe either, another guy who has improved dramatically? Or how about the Clippers 1st rounder? Yea, shitty trade idea. Hold out for a lotto pick as you said. Cause that would be better than 3 players.
    Raptors pick and Lamb/PJ3/Jackson > Jordan, Bledsoe, Clippers pick

  15. #255
    ****face Damage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anderson Varejao Trade Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyrie To The View Post
    Raptors pick and Lamb/PJ3/Jackson > Jordan, Bledsoe, Clippers pick
    Even though I disagree, at least that's a completely fair debate. Honestly, I like both of them.

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