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  1. #391
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    Default Re: Anderson Varejao Trade Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by nime View Post
    AV and Gibson for Avery Bradley, JJ Sully, Brandon Bass, Bos 2013 1st rounder and 2015 1st rounder.

    Realistic offer. Boston needs AV.
    no why take on bass contract... trading av should give us a return of a big man (not bradley being the best player) or a top 10 pick

  2. #392
    Rising Star KB's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anderson Varejao Trade Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by nime View Post
    AV and Gibson for Avery Bradley, JJ Sully, Brandon Bass, Bos 2013 1st rounder and 2015 1st rounder.

    Realistic offer. Boston needs AV.
    I don't think Boston gives up all their youth to get AV

    If it was a Boston trade getting Sully back with those 2 picks and Jeff Green makes way more sense from Boston's side.

    I don't think there is any way Boston gives up Bradley, Sully, Bass and 2 firsts for AV

  3. #393
    Birthing All-Stars Free Agency God's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anderson Varejao Trade Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Homestar View Post
    Wow, that's amazing. That's exactly what I was going to post. The difference is, I was going to say that I don't like to roll the dice there.

    I understand why OKC might not want to make this trade, but I also understand why we don't. The highest it can be this year is #4 because I believe it's top 3 protected. Let's look at the last five #4 picks:

    2012 - Dion Waiters
    2011 - Tristan Thompson
    2010 - Wesley Johnson
    2009 - Tyreke Evans
    2008 - Russell Westbrook

    So taking the #4 and #5 picks of the last five years, you have:

    Absolutely not worth Varejao: Robinson, Thompson, Johnson

    Talented, but not as valuable as Varejao: Jonas, Rubio, Waiters, Evans

    More valuable than Varejao: Cousins, Love, Westbrook

    That's a 30% chance we end up with someone better than AV. I don't like those odds.

    Varejao = core, in my opinion. Only one notch below Kyrie in terms of untrade-ability.

    If OKC wants him, they will have to also throw us Lamb or another future pick. We hold all the leverage - they are the ones who want to win now. We can hold AV and trade him later, or re-sign him.
    Ah, but if you consider how good Varejao will be relative to all these players five years from now (which is really a fairer way of doing things since Varejao's production now isn't contributing on a contending team) and add in the 2nd tier you listed: Jonas, Rubio, Waiters, and Evans in as being worth it to trade for because of that, then you're up to 70%. It's just really not fair to only look at players now instead of later down the road.

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  5. #394
    Best in the World The Voice's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anderson Varejao Trade Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Homestar
    Talented, but not as valuable as Varejao: Jonas, Rubio, Waiters, Evans
    These guys haven't even reached their prime. How do we know they won't be?
    OU... OH YEAH!!!!

    9/13
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    Sanchize and the boys start their reign of dominance tonight...
    Someone has a CHIP on his shoulder (you know who you are)

  6. #395
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    Default Re: Anderson Varejao Trade Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by jlegg21 View Post
    Great, so say miracles happen and we do we sneak into the playoffs next year with your roster. Unless your "guy or two" in FA or trade happen to be bona fide studs like Rudy Gay and Josh Smith, that team definitely gets curb-stomped by Miami, Boston, Chicago, or New York in the first round. So what have we really accomplished exactly?

    Nevermind that you're relying on two methods of building a franchise (Free Agency and blockbuster trades) that have never, EVER panned out for a small market team like the Cavs. You're building a flawed team that can only get so far, and just to get there, you're assuming a TON of improvement from a group of rookies that anyone would admit have a long way to go in terms of being ready to compete in the playoffs.

    I hate that I've become the pessimist on this board, but some of you act like some miraculous turnaround is going to happen overnight, when the reality is this is gonna be a long, drawn out rebuild, especially with Thompson looking like the 2nd coming of JJ Hickson out there. By comparison, Carlos Boozer was rounding into a very good PF and at least had a feel for how to play in this league by the end of his rookie year.

    If anything, I feel bad for Andy, and I think he deserves to spend the rest of his prime playing for a chance to win a ring. That aint gonna be here, folks. If you believe otherwise, more power to ya.
    You do realize that it's a process, right? No one expects this team to magically become a contending team due to the results of one off-season. The thing is, players get better. It's ignorant to assume that all the guys we have now will continue to play at the level they're playing at right now for the rest of their careers. Most of our guys are young and inconsistent. They will gain consistency and skill with age.

    Every team that rebuilds like we have has to go through this. Even Oklahoma City, which basically accomplished the perfect rebuild, didn't magically go from the lottery to the Finals in one season. They took their licks in the playoffs, regrouped, and got better the following year like basically every rebuilding team ever.

    Also, I don't think Homestar's point was that we'll make major acquisitions in free agency or the draft. His point is that we're not as far off as a lot of people think. Our starting line-up, even without Kyrie, routinely holds their own against some of the best teams in the NBA. In fact, our main problem is that, like most young teams, we haven't figured out how to win games yet. That's something that comes with time and experience, and also with better conditioning. Our other big problem is that, by and large, our bench isn't good.

    The former problem, as I mentioned, will be remedied with time. The latter problem is remedied a hell of a lot easier than you think. Let's say we get one draft pick in the top five this year (very likely) and a second around the 20-24 range (also very likely given the Lakers' struggles). That top five pick will likely result in a starter at either the three, the four, or the five, which moves Gee (a solid role player) or Thompson (likewise) to the bench. That quickly makes the bench quite a bit better. That pick in the 20-24 range (which we could potentially use in a trade for a higher pick like last year) will likely result in a guy to strengthen our bench. Assuming we hit on that second first-rounder, our bench has suddenly gotten quite a bit better.

    And this brings us to trades and free agency. As I mentioned above, I doubt we make any major acquisitions (although it's obviously possible). But then again, we also don't really have to. An Irving-Waiters-Varejao-2013Pick line-up is already a pretty damn good core of starters, especially given that Irving and Waiters will presumably be better next year and Varejao likely won't see much drop-off (assuming he isn't traded). If you add one or two veteran role players or skill guys to that squad (which also includes Thompson, Zeller, Gee, and probably at least one other draft pick), the Cavs have a good starting line-up and a solid bench.

    Obviously I don't expect us to contend next year, but neither does anyone who is being realistic. Making the playoffs next year (which, given the above scenario, isn't out of the question) would be a huge step for this team, and would give them some much needed postseason experience. And making the playoffs is always the first step to contending for a team rebuilding like ours. The thing is, even if we're the eight seed next year and lose in four or five games to the Heat, that doesn't mean our ceiling is the eight seed. Our guys are super young, and right now it's all about giving them the time and experience to get better.

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  8. #396
    Hall of Famer Mdog1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anderson Varejao Trade Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by "Boobie" Gibson View Post
    2 things:

    1) Until Anderson Varejao is actually traded, I will never believe that the Cavs will trade him. Fans and "experts" have been speculating the Cavs are going to trade AV for how long now? It isn't going to happen. He's far too valuable to trade and I just don't foresee it ever happening. I am happy with that.

    2) I'm going to get killed for this: but I really don't believe any team can truly compete with the Heat (or any big market teams) in this day and age. I would be extremely happy to win a championship but I would be more than happy to just see this team competing in the playoffs year in and year out. Unless we lucked into a once-in-a-generation type player (LBJ), I just don't think the Cavs will ever truly be a championship caliber team. However, that isn't going to stop me from cheering my heart out.
    On your first point, ANDY HAS NOT BEEN HEALTHY AT THE DEADLINE SO HIS VALUE WAS AT AN ALL TIME LOW MEANING WE COULD NOT TRADE HIM FOR ANYTHING OF VALUE. Why people can't seem to understand that I have no idea.

    If the front office thought the trade would make the team better then they would do it, but Andy hasn't been healthy enough to trade. If he can stay healthy wave goodbye to Andy if we get a good deal.

  9. #397
    Team Player Homestar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anderson Varejao Trade Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Triumph36 View Post
    this is not baseball and the cavs are not the yankees. this is especially true now with the new cba.
    Shaq's $20M salary was acquired when we were already far over the luxury tax number. There are creative ways to take advantage of an owner with deep pockets, outside of just signing every good FA to the max.

  10. #398
    Team Player Homestar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anderson Varejao Trade Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by RMsDanielGibson View Post
    Ah, but if you consider how good Varejao will be relative to all these players five years from now (which is really a fairer way of doing things since Varejao's production now isn't contributing on a contending team) and add in the 2nd tier you listed: Jonas, Rubio, Waiters, and Evans in as being worth it to trade for because of that, then you're up to 70%. It's just really not fair to only look at players now instead of later down the road.
    Until he actually starts declining, there's no need to start thinking about that. All he has done to this point in his career is drastically improve.

    He's literally averaging 15 & 15 right now. LEADING the NBA in the major statistic of rebounds. My point is that Tyreke Evans is a nice player, but I don't think there will ever be a point where he is literally the best player in the NBA at one particular (major) thing.

  11. #399
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    Default Re: Anderson Varejao Trade Ideas

    How about Varejao and Boobie, and anyone besides Kyrie or Waiters to OKC for Perkins, Perry Jones, and that pick they got from Toronto in the Harden Trade?

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    Default Re: Anderson Varejao Trade Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by marxus View Post
    How about Varejao and Boobie, and anyone besides Kyrie or Waiters to OKC for Perkins, Perry Jones, and that pick they got from Toronto in the Harden Trade?
    I honestly don't get the love affair with PJ3 people have if we get any young guy from the Thunder I would hope it would be Jeremy Lamb we need a sixthman type desperately and Cav's front office LOVES Lamb if we make a deal with OKC I would only assume Lamb would be involved not PJ3...

  13. #401
    Time For A Title Rob's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anderson Varejao Trade Ideas

    As bad as I want that Toronto pick, I don't see OKC trading it at this point. Varejao is a monster, but that pick will be top 5.

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    Default Re: Anderson Varejao Trade Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyrie To The View Post
    As bad as I want that Toronto pick, I don't see OKC trading it at this point. Varejao is a monster, but that pick will be top 5.
    I don't know OKC is wanting to win it now and Varejao could be the guy who puts them over the top

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    Hall of Famer Mdog1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anderson Varejao Trade Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by CFIO View Post
    I don't know OKC is wanting to win it now and Varejao could be the guy who puts them over the top
    They have three years after this one, and I suspect really two since i'm sure Durant has a player option, since most star players take player options.

    If they want to keep Durant they will need to at least make the finals in the next few years, and Andy helps them do that. Does a player that is unknown at this point? That's if they see the pick this year, or next year...

  16. #404
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    Default Re: Anderson Varejao Trade Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyrie To The View Post
    Varejao is a monster, but that pick will be top 5.
    Exactly what AV is worth at minimum...

  17. #405
    Hall of Famer Mdog1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anderson Varejao Trade Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Homestar View Post
    Exactly what AV is worth at minimum...
    Lol a 30 year old with injury concerns that has never made an all star game is not worth at mnimum a top 5 pick.

    Some people are so incredibly unrealistic it's hilarious. A fan favourite does not a superstar make. If you talk to fans of other teams they would say we would be lucky to ge a top 10 pick for Andy.

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