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  1. #211
    All Star mAo_mAo's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    I just hate to point this put but I will. This dude is only 19 years old and is putting up solid numbers in limited minutes. If he was on the Cavs he will average at least 12 and 8 a night just because he will be given more minutes and be playing with a great PG.

    The moment you are given a choice of drafting a C with the tools that Drummond have (which is Howardesque) and an undersized scoring SG. What will you choose? Basically that is the question.
    When in doubt, step up the defense

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    All Star mAo_mAo's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RMsDanielGibson View Post
    Perry Jones and Quincy Miller have done shit since they entered the NBA and are not a guaranteed thing let alone a guaranteed ANYTHING. So far, it wouldn't be crazy to say that they could be end-of-the-bench guys. Also, Valanciunas hasn't really shown anything more than Tristan as of yet. He isn't really guaranteed to be a worldbeater more so than Tristan either. I'd take Tyler Zeller ANY day of the week over Valanciunas. Also, there was evidence that Valanciunas was avoiding being drafted with us. Do we really want to sign a player like that? They're a huge flight risk. We want guys who want to be here.

    That leaves the difference between Dion and Drummond. It's up for grabs. Dion is showing that he could be an all-star shooting guard, but Drummond is also showing much promise. It's too bad we couldn't trade up for Drummond as well. I'd definitely take Drummond now if it meant trading our 24th, our 33rd, our 34th, and maybe something like the SAC 1st or rights to the pick between the Lakers and Heat. A core of Kyrie, Dion, Shabazz, TT, and Drummond would definitely excite me. However, there would be the issue of having both Drummond and TT.
    Those guys have not been given the same opportunity than that given to our rooks. It is also not a guarantee that they will not do anything.

    The issue could be easily corrected by just having one of them at the floor. The main thing is that we could have locked up a potential defensive anchor in Drummond which is more important than thinking about the pairing of TT and him. We could just trade TT who is a dime a dozen type of a player.
    When in doubt, step up the defense

  3. #213
    Birthing All-Stars Free Agency God's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by blue_kahuna View Post
    Typical asshat reply. Taking two extremes and implying that's how everyone feels lol. Care to quote anyone in this thread that says Dion is a bust and Drummond is the second coming of Wilt Chamberlain?
    Did Tornicade imply that Drummond is the 2nd coming of Wilt Chamberlain? If not, then didn't you just take that to an extreme?

    Really, guys, it's only a "huuuuuuggeee miss" if Dion doesn't turn out to be as beneficial for this team as Drummond would be. Dion's already averaging 15 points per game, and it's not a stretch to say that he'll average 20-25 ppg on top of playing great defense and being a 5+ apg guy when all is said and done. His finishing and FG% will improve when all is said and done. It'll be hard to be upset with that unless Drummond becomes an all-star.

    Also, Dion fits with this team much better than Drummond due to 1) his ability to be that 2nd distributing guard in the Princeton offense, and 2) the fact that Drummond has no jump shot as of yet and wouldn't fit well with TT on the floor. I will admit though that it's tempting to even overlook all that due to his already promising defensive prowess and rebounding.
    Last edited by Free Agency God; 12-16-2012 at 01:24 PM.

  4. #214
    So we come to it at last Chris's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RMsDanielGibson View Post
    Did Tornicade imply that Drummond is the 2nd coming of Wilt Chamberlain? If not, then didn't you just take that to an extreme?

    Really, guys, it's only a "huuuuuuggeee miss" if Dion doesn't turn out to be as beneficial for this team as Drummond would be. Dion's already averaging 15 points per game, and it's not a stretch to say that he'll average 20-25 ppg on top of playing great defense and being a 5+ apg guy when all is said and done. His finishing and FG% will improve when all is said and done. It'll be hard to be upset with that unless Drummond becomes an all-star.

    Also, Dion fits with this team much better than Drummond due to 1) his ability to be that 2nd distributing guard in the Princeton offense, and 2) the fact that Drummond has no jump shot as of yet and wouldn't fit well with TT on the floor. I will admit though that it's tempting to even overlook all that due to his already promising defensive prowess and rebounding.
    At the end of the day, if both turn into studs, you'd still rather have Drummond because he plays a premium position.

    That's the cold, hard truth.
    The artist formerly known as cmstophe

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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    And are we really talking about passing on Drummond because he does not fit with TT? That has to be a joke. Besides Drummond is 18 years old, has decent shooting form, and could develop a jumper.

    For the record, I like Waiters, but Drummond's ceiling is leaps and bounds higher.

  6. #216
    Birthing All-Stars Free Agency God's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    At the end of the day, if both turn into studs, you'd still rather have Drummond because he plays a premium position.

    That's the cold, hard truth.
    If both Dion and Drummond end up being studs of roughly equal value, then we could take it like this: Dion's value to this team is potentially higher than Drummond because of how Dion fits perfectly into this offense being a combo guard who can be that 2nd distributor of the Princeton offense, thus making it easier for Kyrie to work, while Drummond clogs the lane, thus making things harder for Kyrie to work. Thus, if all things are equal between the two in terms of talent relative to their positions, then the one who fits better could be more beneficial to us, and I'd find it hard to believe, based off of how the Princeton offense works, that Drummond would be a better fit than Dion.

    Dion is already showing like he is a perfect fit for our offense whereas Drummond would pigeonhole us into needing a few big men who can spread the floor to compensate for him. See below for why things could end up better for us in the long run.

    Quote Originally Posted by RealKingofCleve View Post
    And are we really talking about passing on Drummond because he does not fit with TT? That has to be a joke. Besides Drummond is 18 years old, has decent shooting form, and could develop a jumper.

    For the record, I think Waiters, but Drummond's ceiling is leaps and bounds higher.
    Well we did pass on Lillard because of Kyrie and how those two couldn't exist in a backcourt together, and I don't see people getting all upset over that. How is it so different than how TT and Drummond would be hard to fit in a front court together due to a lack of spacing because neither player can shoot?

    Regardless, even if Drummond turns out to be great, it looks like this next draft could redeem things due to the center-heavy nature of it. Alex Len is my main target at least at the center position. He would fit infinitely better with us than Drummond, and he's both a good offensive and defensive player. As things look right now, we'll be able to take pretty much whoever we want.

    Alex is actually even longer than Drummond, standing at 7'1" with a 7'5" wingspan. He can run the floor very well and has surprising hops for a guy of his size. He has some post moves, he can shoot, and he can rebound well. He also plays defense and blocks shots very well. If all this translates at the next level, then we'll have ourselves a potential all-star on our hands.

    If Alex Len ends up being as good as Drummond, but a better fit, that's a huge win, IMO, because there are also very few shooting guards at the top of the 2013 draft that are looking as promising as Dion at the moment. Thus, it could end up that a Dion/Len combination could end up better than a combination of Drummond and any other guard we could have taken in the 2013 draft.

    And if we don't like Len, we have plenty of other centers from which to choose. The point stays the same that we could end up with a better combo by drafting Dion first and a center in the 2013 draft than if we had drafted Drummond first and a SG in the 2013 draft.

    Don't forget that we also have Tyler Zeller, who is also showing some promise considering how late we drafted him.

  7. #217
    Veteran Cavatt's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    He apparently had the worst interviews. I guess he wasn't coached on what to say. I think he will be an impact player and I would trade Tt for him, but that wasn't the choice. I like Dion enough I don't mind the cavs passed on this guy.

  8. #218
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RMsDanielGibson View Post
    Did Tornicade imply that Drummond is the 2nd coming of Wilt Chamberlain? If not, then didn't you just take that to an extreme?

    Really, guys, it's only a "huuuuuuggeee miss" if Dion doesn't turn out to be as beneficial for this team as Drummond would be. Dion's already averaging 15 points per game, and it's not a stretch to say that he'll average 20-25 ppg on top of playing great defense and being a 5+ apg guy when all is said and done. His finishing and FG% will improve when all is said and done. It'll be hard to be upset with that unless Drummond becomes an all-star.

    Also, Dion fits with this team much better than Drummond due to 1) his ability to be that 2nd distributing guard in the Princeton offense, and 2) the fact that Drummond has no jump shot as of yet and wouldn't fit well with TT on the floor. I will admit though that it's tempting to even overlook all that due to his already promising defensive prowess and rebounding.
    I was playing along with his stupid game....calm down tiger. This thread isn't about Dion. This thread is about Drummond. I love Dion and hope he becomes a superstar but I was high on Drummond since Day 1 and said he should've been the #2 pick in the draft and that if he dropped to us at #4, we will have a rare opportunity to draft a player with his rare potential. The only people who are turning this thread into a Dion vs. Drummond are the Drummond haters and Dion apologists. Leave Dion out of this thread if you could thank you very much. And I'll quote a saying from one of the greatest coaches of all time...."You can't teach size".

    Oh btw, since you want to defend this guy who seems to always have his foot in his mouth....care to quote anyone in this thread that said Dion was a "BUST after 17 games"?
    Last edited by Spencer Hawes; 12-16-2012 at 02:58 PM.

  9. #219
    The Bushido doctrine Homer Safari's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    18 mpg 6 points per game ,6 rebounds per game.

    lets see who comes up.

    Roy Tarpley, Rich Kelley, Mike Kupchak, Dejaun blair , and robert parish.

    the guy just isnt as good as his stats show. he is easy to take out of the game and he is a horrible passer and ball handler when pressured. which isnt that much because his team is hardley ever in the game when he takes the court.

    I dont hate Andre Drummonds but since he has his own thread on the forums he deserves the same "real" objectivity that his fan club likes to cast upon their own Cavs

  10. #220
    Blue Donkey Kong Champion Ocean Force Champion Cell Defense Champion Bird Saver Champion Jigsaw: Rocky Waters Champion Brave Old World Champion Jigsaw: Boats And Fire Hydrant Champion Jigsaw: Narrow Street Champion A Miko Tale Marionette: Another Tale Champion Balancing Mathai Champion Jigsaw: Red Toadstool Champion Jigsaw: Wood Formation Champion 4Blocks Champion CircusCircus Champion Jigsaw: Slate Mine Champion Spencer Hawes's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Tornicade View Post
    18 mpg 6 points per game ,6 rebounds per game.

    lets see who comes up.

    Roy Tarpley, Rich Kelley, Mike Kupchak, Dejaun blair , and robert parish.

    the guy just isnt as good as his stats show. he is easy to take out of the game and he is a horrible passer and ball handler when pressured. which isnt that much because his team is hardley ever in the game when he takes the court.

    I dont hate Andre Drummonds but since he has his own thread on the forums he deserves the same "real" objectivity that his fan club likes to cast upon their own Cavs
    Wait, don't forget Diop, Kwame, Thabeet, Ryan Hollins and the best one to date, Jeremy Tyler! You know the high school kid that played in Japan? We know you're a Drummond hater dude so don't try and come off as some "objective" observer.

    The funny thing about your "real objectivity" views about this kid is that other team's commentators are impressed when they see this kid play and alot of them have said that he was a steal at #9 which means he should've been drafted higher. They don't bring up dumbass stats for comparisons....they see the kid play in person and most of them say things like he's gonna have a bright future. Never once have I heard anyone compare him to the Roy Tarpley, Rich Kelley, Mike Kupchak, Dejaun blair, and robert parish.

    But you know what, keep doing what you're doing...cause Drummond is making you look like an idiot without even playing significant minutes lol.

  11. #221
    1234567890 Numbers Guy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    Amir Johnson was putting up ridiculous per 36 stats a few years ago off Detroits bench.. but when he actually got time he ended up being trash. Way too early to tell right now.

  12. #222
    Admittedly Pompous Randolphkeys's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by blue_kahuna View Post
    Never once have I heard anyone compare him to the Roy Tarpley, Rich Kelley, Mike Kupchak, Dejaun blair, and robert parish.
    Tarpley had All Star talent but a bad cocaine addiction. Kupchak was a huge talent in the late 70's who had a bad knee injury, but still produced off the bench afterward for the Showtime Lakers bench. Robert Parish is a Hall of Famer. Plenty of talent on that list.

    Those examples just show that young whipper snappers need to listen to more old greybeards sitting around talking about the days of The Big O, making buckets, and massage their bunyons.

    I've watched a lot of Drummond this year. His talents are elite, but the holes in his game are gaping right now. Teams can start fouling him as soon as he gets hot, just to make the coaches think about killing the Pistons offensive flow. He must average a goal tend a game. I don't think he understands team defense outside of "hey, that guy over there might shoot it, I'm going to try to swat it into the third row."

    Let's see how he reacts to these issues.
    Last edited by Randolphkeys; 12-16-2012 at 08:01 PM.
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  13. #223
    Birthing All-Stars Free Agency God's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by blue_kahuna View Post
    I was playing along with his stupid game....calm down tiger. This thread isn't about Dion. This thread is about Drummond. I love Dion and hope he becomes a superstar but I was high on Drummond since Day 1 and said he should've been the #2 pick in the draft and that if he dropped to us at #4, we will have a rare opportunity to draft a player with his rare potential. The only people who are turning this thread into a Dion vs. Drummond are the Drummond haters and Dion apologists. Leave Dion out of this thread if you could thank you very much. And I'll quote a saying from one of the greatest coaches of all time...."You can't teach size".

    Oh btw, since you want to defend this guy who seems to always have his foot in his mouth....care to quote anyone in this thread that said Dion was a "BUST after 17 games"?
    You tell me to keep Dion out of this thread, but then you ask me to answer a question about Dion?

    No one said that Dion is a bust after 17 games, but, by saying that Drummond was a huge miss or that we missed out on Drummond, one has to assume that, by default, these people are saying that Dion has to be considered not as good for us in the long run as Drummond. That is why I am showing the other side of the argument. I am not saying that Drummond won't become something better than Dion, but I'm just showing that Dion has been promising for us as well, so it's hard to say that it's a huge miss as of yet.

    You wouldn't say, "Man, we really missed out on Chris Bosh" when we drafted LeBron James during the 2003 draft because we didn't miss out on anything compared to what we drafted. Saying that we are missing out on Drummond is like saying that we should have drafted him over Dion. Should we have done so? Perhaps, but it's far too early to tell especially since neither one is a clear frontrunner over the other. On top of that, we have yet to see who we will draft this upcoming draft. There are lots of centers from which to choose, many of which are a much better fit than Drummond.

    But anywho.

  14. #224
    Team Player Len's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RMsDanielGibson View Post

    Alex Len is my main target at least at the center position. He would fit infinitely better with us than Drummond, and he's both a good offensive and defensive player. As things look right now, we'll be able to take pretty much whoever we want.

    Alex is actually even longer than Drummond, standing at 7'1" with a 7'5" wingspan. He can run the floor very well and has surprising hops for a guy of his size. He has some post moves, he can shoot, and he can rebound well. He also plays defense and blocks shots very well. If all this translates at the next level, then we'll have ourselves a potential all-star on our hands.

    If Alex Len ends up being as good as Drummond, but a better fit, that's a huge win, IMO, because there are also very few shooting guards at the top of the 2013 draft that are looking as promising as Dion at the moment. Thus, it could end up that a Dion/Len combination could end up better than a combination of Drummond and any other guard we could have taken in the 2013 draft.




  15. #225
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RMsDanielGibson View Post
    Well we did pass on Lillard because of Kyrie and how those two couldn't exist in a backcourt together, and I don't see people getting all upset over that. How is it so different than how TT and Drummond would be hard to fit in a front court together due to a lack of spacing because neither player can shoot?

    Regardless, even if Drummond turns out to be great, it looks like this next draft could redeem things due to the center-heavy nature of it. Alex Len is my main target at least at the center position. He would fit infinitely better with us than Drummond, and he's both a good offensive and defensive player. As things look right now, we'll be able to take pretty much whoever we want.

    Alex is actually even longer than Drummond, standing at 7'1" with a 7'5" wingspan. He can run the floor very well and has surprising hops for a guy of his size. He has some post moves, he can shoot, and he can rebound well. He also plays defense and blocks shots very well. If all this translates at the next level, then we'll have ourselves a potential all-star on our hands.

    If Alex Len ends up being as good as Drummond, but a better fit, that's a huge win, IMO, because there are also very few shooting guards at the top of the 2013 draft that are looking as promising as Dion at the moment. Thus, it could end up that a Dion/Len combination could end up better than a combination of Drummond and any other guard we could have taken in the 2013 draft.

    And if we don't like Len, we have plenty of other centers from which to choose. The point stays the same that we could end up with a better combo by drafting Dion first and a center in the 2013 draft than if we had drafted Drummond first and a SG in the 2013 draft.

    Don't forget that we also have Tyler Zeller, who is also showing some promise considering how late we drafted him.
    The very HUGE difference between not taking Lillard because of Kyrie Irving and not taking Drummond because of Tristan Thompson is that Kyrie was coming off a ROY season and was being ranked as a top 20 player IN THE LEAGUE. Tristan isn't at top 20 guy AT HIS POSITION. Another difference is Kyrie and Lillard are both point guards, playing the same position. Tristan is a power forward, but Drummond is a center, playing different positions. Unless a player is an All-Star, you don't skip a potentially great player because of someone you already have. Even IF it's a question, this team is so void of talent that they should continue to take the best players possible; regardless of position.

    I like Alex Len a lot, too. He's my number one player (including Cody Zeller, Nerlens Noel and Shabazz Muhammed). Thing is, he might not be available when the Cavaliers pick, but Andre Drummond absolutely was. Regardless, you said there aren't many SGs that look to be as good as Dion. I give you a 6'6" guy that was ranked #2 in his class, has been said to have a work ethic on par with Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, super athleticism, tenacity, passion and great scoring instincts. His name is Shabazz Muhammed. There's another guy (my favorite SG prospect) that's 6'5", has superb athleticism, can shoot the rock from anywhere on the floor, and has been compared to a young Ray Allen. His name is Ben McLemore. There's also Archie Goodwin, CJ Wilcox and Michael Carter-Williams. That's 5 guys that can go in the Lottery (in a center-heavy draft).

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