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  1. #286
    Situational Stopper Shack's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    I'm not entirely sold on Drummond despite his hot start. What's going on is that there might not be 10 NBA players in history more physically gifted than him. I'm that impressed by his combination of size and mobility. He is a greek god.

    But I still think 2/3s of the game is non physical. So Drummond's going to need to add a lot. While Drummond is more physically talented than Deandre Jordan, Javale McGee, Samuel Dalembert, Bismack Biyombo the marginal utility of that athletic difference between Drummond and a Jordan isn't going to be that high. Jordan already gets 90% of what you can on athletic tools alone. And those guys aren't that good. So it's well within reason Drummond only ends up that type of player.

    Dwight Howard, while he gets bashed especially this season and has been an overall overrated player most of his career, has somewhat underrated skill and IQ. I would still call Howard's skill level above average for a center. No he's not Shaq or Hakeem and his post game is butt ugly, but he does have excellent touch, nice hooks, is a solid ballhandler. He's also a fairly intelligent player which is half the reason for his defensive impact. The gap between Dwight and Deandre Jordan is still significant in skill and IQ. Maybe Dwight is an unspectacular 6 out of 10 in both categories but Jordan is a 2. The question is which one of those guys Drummond is. I would guess he has Dwight's IQ and Jordan's skill, personally

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  3. #287
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    People just expected Andre to explode and dominate once he hit the NCAA, and when that didn't happen they started ascribing a whole lot of BS to him. It's probably best for him in the long run that expectations fell so low for him, because the pressure of being great has crushed plenty of other young players who had all the tools to have a fine career if they were just allowed to focus on what they do good and grow in to other areas.

    His FT% has fallen back and now sits at 40%, so that's still needs a lot of work, but his per36 numbers show a lot of promise.

  4. #288
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RealKingofCleve View Post
    I don't get your point. If the draft was held today, I think Drummond would be the number 2 pick.
    It's easy to say that now, but no one was saying it on draft night. Perhaps you should change your user name to RealKingofRevisionistHistory?

  5. #289
    Drafting workout allstars RchfldCavRaised's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Brickman View Post
    It's easy to say that now, but no one was saying it on draft night. Perhaps you should change your user name to RealKingofRevisionistHistory?
    I said it a few times, simple search turned this up. I was HARDLY the only one.
    http://realcavsfans.com/showthread.p...=1#post1378837
    The Richfield Trade Deadline Survival Kit post... here

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  7. #290
    Rising Star pr26's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RchfldCavRaised View Post
    I said it a few times, simple search turned this up. I was HARDLY the only one.
    http://realcavsfans.com/showthread.p...=1#post1378837
    Yeah I was wanting Drummond at 4 if MKG and Beal were off the board.....and plenty of others did too. Not a consensus or anything, but there were plenty. I'm happy with the Dion pick now that I've watched him play and I see his potential, but I wasn't happy at the time.

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  9. #291
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by pr26 View Post
    Yeah I was wanting Drummond at 4 if MKG and Beal were off the board.....and plenty of others did too. Not a consensus or anything, but there were plenty. I'm happy with the Dion pick now that I've watched him play and I see his potential, but I wasn't happy at the time.
    Same here....If Beal and MKG were gone.

  10. #292
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Brickman View Post
    It's easy to say that now, but no one was saying it on draft night. Perhaps you should change your user name to RealKingofRevisionistHistory?
    Do some research before you make broad and false statements. I said way before the draft that he should've been the #2 pick. I'm pretty sure there were a handful of people that agreed with me but didn't want to go on the record. And there was a minority that felt we should have drafted him if he was still on the board.

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  12. #293
    Sports Archaeologist Scholar's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Brickman View Post
    It's easy to say that now, but no one was saying it on draft night. Perhaps you should change your user name to RealKingofRevisionistHistory?
    Sorry, Jack, there were more then a few of us that actually wanted Drummond. Now, you'll notice that I don't complain that we didn't take him even though he is the player I wanted. I can see why they took Waiters. I still would have preferred Andre. But, at least, I can see what they saw.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scholar View Post
    I am actually really concerned that he is going to be taken at 2. Dreading it. He is the one player outside of Davis that has the possibility of really being special. We can talk about the others that would be very good players. But, not game changers like Andre could be. Even if he only maximizes his talent on the defensive side of the ball, that forces other teams to have to plan around him. An effect like Howard has. The part of his game where he actually showed up in his freshman year was his defense. He apparently likes that part of basketball. He is very good at covering the P&R. It is definitely not unreasonable to expect him to at least be good at what he is already good at. But, go ahead and keep hating. Keep making comparisons to players who are not really similar.

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  14. #294
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Brickman View Post
    It's easy to say that now, but no one was saying it on draft night. Perhaps you should change your user name to RealKingofRevisionistHistory?

    , every name you see posting in this Andre Drummond thread was on board and voiced their opinion about taking Drummond for months prior to draft night. I can think of only maybe one person who wasn't shocked when we took Dwait on draft night. He didn't even have a Thread soley related to Dion such as "A Closer Look: Dion Waiters" until after we drafted him, so.

    I am now happy we have Dion, and only semi-bitter we don't have Drummond.

  15. #295
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    Ya, I remember all these guys wanting Drummond. I was/am a huge proponent of MKG for a lot of the same reasons I was not for Drummond. But, to Drummond, I still believe CG sees TT as his starting PF for years to come and may have had questions about his fitting next to a guy like Drummond. Drummond is definitely more dominant at what he does than TT is, but there games seem to overlap quite a bit in style. The thought of them both in a close game in the 4thQ is nightmarish.

    Mind you, this is not coming from a TT guy, so I'm just trying to put myself in Grant's shoes for a minute. It's almost like picking Drummond would have been sort of an admission about TT...and a bit of redundancy. Again, not that I agree with the approach, but I could see that being his reasoning.

  16. #296
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by SmknJoe7 View Post
    Ya, I remember all these guys wanting Drummond. I was/am a huge proponent of MKG for a lot of the same reasons I was not for Drummond. But, to Drummond, I still believe CG sees TT as his starting PF for years to come and may have had questions about his fitting next to a guy like Drummond. Drummond is definitely more dominant at what he does than TT is, but there games seem to overlap quite a bit in style. The thought of them both in a close game in the 4thQ is nightmarish.

    Mind you, this is not coming from a TT guy, so I'm just trying to put myself in Grant's shoes for a minute. It's almost like picking Drummond would have been sort of an admission about TT...and a bit of redundancy. Again, not that I agree with the approach, but I could see that being his reasoning.
    I see where you're coming from but I look at it from another perspective (which has been argued to death lol). Guys like Drummond don't drop to #4 very often. Guys like TT (if he doesn't develop into an impact player) are a dime a dozen. If CG was afraid of pairing Drummond with TT, then couldn't the same argument be made when pairing TT with Andy? I think it was more to do with the fear that Drummond would bust as oppose to skills overlapping. And when I say bust, I was referring to him not developing any kind of offensive game besides, lobs, put backs and being spoon fed easy buckets. His defensive abilities such as shot blocking, PnR, man-to-man, and rebounding were his strengths and it was believed that even if he busted, those skills would still be valuable to any championship contending team.

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  18. #297
    All Star Giambiwannabe7's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by blue_kahuna View Post
    I see where you're coming from but I look at it from another perspective (which has been argued to death lol). Guys like Drummond don't drop to #4 very often. Guys like TT (if he doesn't develop into an impact player) are a dime a dozen. If CG was afraid of pairing Drummond with TT, then couldn't the same argument be made when pairing TT with Andy? I think it was more to do with the fear that Drummond would bust as oppose to skills overlapping. And when I say bust, I was referring to him not developing any kind of offensive game besides, lobs, put backs and being spoon fed easy buckets. His defensive abilities such as shot blocking, PnR, man-to-man, and rebounding were his strengths and it was believed that even if he busted, those skills would still be valuable to any championship contending team.
    No, I agree with your stance when speaking of it coming from a Drummond supporter. The difference with the Andy thing is that he is 30. I believe his time as a core piece of this team will be over within the next year or so. I think CG probably viewed TT as a sort of Andy replacement. No, there games are not identical and I do not believe TT will ever develop Andy's touch offensively, but I think Andy provides a good role model for TT to learn from(hustle, work ethic, rebounding skills like positioning, etc).

    Again, not that I believe in TT the same way CG does, just that I see this as being his reasoning. I think the "bust" potential was just the icing on the cake. I think Dion is very similar to Drummond in this manner. Dion had many question marks with attitude, work ethic, etc that Drummond had. CG, being a metrics guy, almost certainly knew of Dion's less than stellar finishing %'s as well. But, the difference is, Dion fit in ways Drummond did not. There was no player, in relation to TT, on the roster like Dion that would make Dion's game redundant.

    I agree, if Drummond pans out, he could be a true gem. And I'm not saying I agree with CG's reasoning, just that I think it's how he approached the draft. It's my belief that if we didn't have TT on the roster, being a #4 pick, CG may very well have taken Drummond, even with all of his red flags. Dion had a bunch of flags, too, but the difference is noone on the current roster really has Dion's style/skill set. Now, obviously, he and KI do some of the same things, but that's a whole other ball of wax, imo.
    Last edited by Giambiwannabe7; 12-26-2012 at 10:50 AM.

  19. #298
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    MKG and Beal going 2 & 3 was not something we were expecting on the board, but if it did go down I think the majority of us wanted Drummond at #4, albeit there was also a fair chunk that (quietly) wanted Barnes. Dion was a guy getting support to be drafted with our second first rounder - that is until it became clear he'd be taken in the lottery.

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  21. #299
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    Over a 21 PER for people interested in that sort of thing.

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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RealKingofCleve View Post
    Over a 21 PER for people interested in that sort of thing.
    Not attacking you, but I think this is just icing on the cake (or extra twist of the knife) for the Andre Drummond fans. I was one of the biggest proponents of getting Drummond (along with Harrison Barnes). His stats have proven those of us that wanted Drummond to be right. Once you add in advanced stats, or even PER, it's just a reason to feel better about the desire for Drummond (and worse that he's not doing it for the Cavaliers). The idea of Drummond and Kyrie running the pick-and-roll is something that made me drool leading up to the draft. The thought of adding a Ben McLemore to that recipe would've been the thing basketball wet dreams are made of. Alas, it shall not be.

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