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  1. #391
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by InBoobieWeTrust View Post
    Hindsight is always 20/20. If Drummond would have shown any of what he's showing right now at UCONN he probably would have went number 2. Instead, he was disinterested and apathetic and his play was pretty miserable for a guy who obviously could have made an impact. The red flags were legitimate concerns, which is why he dropped so far anyways.
    I doubt the environment at UConn at that time was as prime as it was at Kentucky for the likes of MKG to look like a superstar in the making.
    Last edited by Spencer Hawes; 01-05-2013 at 03:44 PM.

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  3. #392
    Hall of Famer Mdog1's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by mAo_mAo View Post
    Fuckity fuck. We did miss out. Chris Grant probably does not want anyone on the team bigger than him. Only possible reason.


    Oh, and, umm, yeah, we, umm, kinda messed this one up. Undersized 2 guards FTW BIATCH

  4. #393
    Drafting workout allstars RchfldCavRaised's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by blue_kahuna View Post
    I doubt the environment at UConn at that time was as prime as it was at Kentucky for the likes of MKG to look like a superstar in the making.


    I said until I was blue in the face that MKG was NOT what he was being made out to be. In college basketball, environment is everything.

    Get this sinking feeling watching Drummond. Next to Kyrie, we would already be set and ready to pounce on a few cap strapped sellers at this deadline
    The Richfield Trade Deadline Survival Kit post... here

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  6. #394
    Veteran Triumph36's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by InBoobieWeTrust View Post
    Hindsight is always 20/20. If Drummond would have shown any of what he's showing right now at UCONN he probably would have went number 2. Instead, he was disinterested and apathetic and his play was pretty miserable for a guy who obviously could have made an impact. The red flags were legitimate concerns, which is why he dropped so far anyways.
    the red flags were very, very overstated. by everyone - from internet kids all the way to numerous gms including chris grant. that much has already been proven by drummond.

    there were red flags - just as there are with every single draftee - and gm's did not accurately estimate those in drummond's case.

    Quote Originally Posted by blue_kahuna View Post
    I doubt the environment at UConn at that time was as prime as it was at Kentucky for the likes of MKG to look like a superstar in the making.
    yes.

    this aspect has been ignored far too much, notably in the case of drummond more so than gilchrist. people just look at the program he played at along with him playing along side another lottery pick and simply say he must suck because he couldn't succeed there. obv the reality was very, very far from that though.

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  8. #395
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by InBoobieWeTrust View Post
    Hindsight is always 20/20. If Drummond would have shown any of what he's showing right now at UCONN he probably would have went number 2. Instead, he was disinterested and apathetic and his play was pretty miserable for a guy who obviously could have made an impact. The red flags were legitimate concerns, which is why he dropped so far anyways.
    Dion sure wouldn't have gone #4 his rookie season what with his numerous red flags. A GM had better be able to evaluate this stuff and get a read about what's up with a player and his situation.

    Some people should go back and read Jonathan Givony's pre-draft article on AD. If you go through that without any preconceived notion about the kid, you'll see what I saw: a player with a high floor, a high upside, and some very plausible reasons for his struggles.

    http://www.draftexpress.com/article/...Drummond-3868/

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  10. #396
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by InBoobieWeTrust View Post
    Hindsight is always 20/20. If Drummond would have shown any of what he's showing right now at UCONN he probably would have went number 2. Instead, he was disinterested and apathetic and his play was pretty miserable for a guy who obviously could have made an impact. The red flags were legitimate concerns, which is why he dropped so far anyways.
    Seriously, Dion had plenty of red flags himself with a much lower ceiling. You don't have to apologize for the front office all the time.

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  12. #397
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    Dion sure wouldn't have gone #4 his rookie season what with his numerous red flags. A GM had better be able to evaluate this stuff and get a read about what's up with a player and his situation.

    Some people should go back and read Jonathan Givony's pre-draft article on AD. If you go through that without any preconceived notion about the kid, you'll see what I saw: a player with a high floor, a high upside, and some very plausible reasons for his struggles.

    http://www.draftexpress.com/article/...Drummond-3868/
    But he didn't come out of the draft his freshman year, so that argument is moot.

    I just find it funny that people are jumping all over Dion just like they jumped all over Thompson last year and even most of this year. We just need to have some damn patience. I don't expect every draft pick to come in here and dominate like Kyrie did. It's not realistic.

    Did we miss on Drummond? Maybe. Honestly, it's too early to tell. Get back to me in five years.

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  14. #398
    Team Player Wulfgar1224's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RealKingofCleve View Post
    Seriously, Dion had plenty of red flags himself with a much lower ceiling. You don't have to apologize for the front office all the time.
    You are spot on this one. The fact is that Grant gets paid well to make decisions like deciding whether or not to take a talent like Drummond. No one said the job was easy. The reality is that Drummond is a rare talent and guys with his size and movement are difficult to find. It is becoming obvious that the Cavs missed the boat on that pick and it doesn't give me any relief that other teams passed on him as well. When you live by tanking and the lottery like the Cavs are doing, moves like that can make or break the rebuild efforts.

  15. #399
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Brickman View Post
    But he didn't come out of the draft his freshman year, so that argument is moot.

    I just find it funny that people are jumping all over Dion just like they jumped all over Thompson last year and even most of this year. We just need to have some damn patience. I don't expect every draft pick to come in here and dominate like Kyrie did. It's not realistic.

    Did we miss on Drummond? Maybe. Honestly, it's too early to tell. Get back to me in five years.
    rrrrrrrriiiiiiigghtt......so from now on, Cavs new policy is 5 years for all rookies.....5 years folks, if you suck your first 4 years, forget about it! Here in Cleveland, we throw in the 5th for free! Too bad we gave up on Samardo. He could have been the next Moses Malone in his 5th year!

    In other news, Drummond with another consistent game. In 28 minutes, scored 10 points on 5-6 shooting, 6 rebs and 3 blocks.
    Last edited by Spencer Hawes; 01-07-2013 at 06:42 AM.

  16. #400
    Sports Archaeologist Scholar's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by blue_kahuna View Post
    rrrrrrrriiiiiiigghtt......so from now on, Cavs new policy is 5 years for all rookies.....5 years folks, if you suck your first 4 years, forget about it! Here in Cleveland, we throw in the 5th for free! Too bad Samardo didn't get the memo!
    Dude, you are completely reading something into what he said that wasn't what he meant. He's saying we can't really judge the pick for 5 years. NOT that the organization can't decide that they don't think a player is working out and jettison him appropriately. But, Jack's point is true. There are plenty of examples of players not fully developing for 3 to 5 years. If this wasn't the case, there would be a lot less players whose first time in the all star game was on a team other then the one that drafted them. There are a lot more examples of that then there should be too. GM's as impatient as many of the posters here.

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  18. #401
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Scholar View Post
    Dude, you are completely reading something into what he said that wasn't what he meant. He's saying we can't really judge the pick for 5 years. NOT that the organization can't decide that they don't think a player is working out and jettison him appropriately. But, Jack's point is true. There are plenty of examples of players not fully developing for 3 to 5 years. If this wasn't the case, there would be a lot less players whose first time in the all star game was on a team other then the one that drafted them. There are a lot more examples of that then there should be too. GM's as impatient as many of the posters here.
    Come on dude, there was a sarcastic ring to my reply. You didn't catch see it lol?

    Anyways, it really depends on if the players have playing time. If you're talking about a young player who is riding the bench because there are better players ahead of him, someone like Jermaine O'Neil, then yes, it's gonna take longer. But Drummond and a lot of the lottery rookies in his draft class have been playing nice chunks of minutes. Right now, can you honestly say that Drummond will be a bust from what he is showing against NBA level competition? The answer is hell no. He might not be the next Dwight Howard but it's safe to say that he's not gonna develop into all the scrubs that he was being compared to prior to the draft (and even after). The likes of Ryan Hollins, Diop, Olowokandi, Thabeet, Jeremy Tyler, Jerome James, etc...Looks like his floor is gonna be DeAndre Jordan or Tyson Chandler with elite rebounding, shot blocking and a mighty soft touch around the basket.

    It doesn't take 5 years to judge most rookies lol. It probably takes about 2 or 3. Sometimes, it takes only 1 if they're riding the bench (cause they suck so bad in practice) lol. But for the most part, you can see what they're capable of doing in their rookie and second year. I've never wanted to bring Dion into the discussion and I don't think I have ever said anything bad about Dion. I want him to succeed and he has the tools but you cannot deny what you see in Drummond after seeing what he's doing with limited minutes against NBA players.
    Last edited by Spencer Hawes; 01-07-2013 at 07:08 AM.

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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by blue_kahuna View Post
    rrrrrrrriiiiiiigghtt......so from now on, Cavs new policy is 5 years for all rookies.....5 years folks, if you suck your first 4 years, forget about it! Here in Cleveland, we throw in the 5th for free! Too bad we gave up on Samardo. He could have been the next Moses Malone in his 5th year!

    In other news, Drummond with another consistent game. In 28 minutes, scored 10 points on 5-6 shooting, 6 rebs and 3 blocks.
    There's a difference between a guy who noticeably doesn't have it (Samardo) and a guy who has the tools but hasn't put them together yet (Dion). In several years, I only saw maybe two or three flashes from Samardo that made me think he could be a good player. For the most part, he was clearly a below replacement level guy. With Dion, I see flashes in almost every game of the guy he can be if he figures it out. There's a huge difference between the two players.

    It was the same with Tristan. You'd see his potential, but be frustrated by his results. Now, a year and a half after we drafted him, he's finally starting to play up to that potential, but even he isn't there yet.

    My point was that, while Drummond is playing better now, there's no guarantee that will remain the case. Unless you're a total bust, your career isn't defined by your rookie season. None of us knows how Drummond's career is going to play out just like none of us know how Dion's will. We will, however, know a little more with each passing year. So, like I said, Drummond looks like the better pick now, but get back to me in five years and we'll have a much better idea of whether that was the case or not.

  20. #403
    Valuable Trading Chip D-Wreck's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by blue_kahuna View Post
    rrrrrrrriiiiiiigghtt......so from now on, Cavs new policy is 5 years for all rookies.....5 years folks, if you suck your first 4 years, forget about it! Here in Cleveland, we throw in the 5th for free! Too bad we gave up on Samardo. He could have been the next Moses Malone in his 5th year!

    In other news, Drummond with another consistent game. In 28 minutes, scored 10 points on 5-6 shooting, 6 rebs and 3 blocks.
    6 rebounds in 28 minutes?

    What a bum

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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Brickman View Post
    Unless you're a total bust, your career isn't defined by your rookie season.
    Not completely defined, but if you look closely you'll see a lot of what a player will eventually be. The thing is usually struggling rooks don't have starter minutes lavished on them like Dion - and now Dion no longer does. So where will his numbers go?

    But if you want to have some fun, pull up the per36 numbers for some players and compare them from rookie year through their career. You may see some improvements in efficiency in various areas, even some dropoff, but you should also see many of the stats end up around career average.

  22. #405
    Situational Stopper GCCSteel's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    Not completely defined, but if you look closely you'll see a lot of what a player will eventually be. The thing is usually struggling rooks don't have starter minutes lavished on them like Dion - and now Dion no longer does. So where will his numbers go?

    But if you want to have some fun, pull up the per36 numbers for some players and compare them from rookie year through their career. You may see some improvements in efficiency in various areas, even some dropoff, but you should also see many of the stats end up around career average.
    Not putting words in your mouth, Jon, just making an observation here. Dion's per36 aren't terrible. 16.1 pts, 2.9 rebs 3.8 asts, 1.4 stls. I could live with that line assuming better efficiency and above average defense. Would he be a star? No, but he wouldn't be a bust either. My initial thought about Dion's per36 is that they would probably not line up with other rookies career progression, because he is averaging 31 minutes per game where most rookies are playing half that with fresh legs against back ups. Just a thought.

    Andre Drummonds per36 is pretty beast, though. 12.9 pts, 13.2 rebs and 2.9 blocks. Hard to pass that up if we did a re-draft today...and I don't just mean at #4.

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