The Andre Drummond Thread

[Jon]

Unless you're a total bust, your career isn't defined by your rookie season.

Not completely defined, but if you look closely you'll see a lot of what a player will eventually be. The thing is usually struggling rooks don't have starter minutes lavished on them like Dion - and now Dion no longer does. So where will his numbers go?

But if you want to have some fun, pull up the per36 numbers for some players and compare them from rookie year through their career. You may see some improvements in efficiency in various areas, even some dropoff, but you should also see many of the stats end up around career average.

[GCCSteel]

Not completely defined, but if you look closely you'll see a lot of what a player will eventually be. The thing is usually struggling rooks don't have starter minutes lavished on them like Dion - and now Dion no longer does. So where will his numbers go?

But if you want to have some fun, pull up the per36 numbers for some players and compare them from rookie year through their career. You may see some improvements in efficiency in various areas, even some dropoff, but you should also see many of the stats end up around career average.

Not putting words in your mouth, Jon, just making an observation here. Dion's per36 aren't terrible. 16.1 pts, 2.9 rebs 3.8 asts, 1.4 stls. I could live with that line assuming better efficiency and above average defense. Would he be a star? No, but he wouldn't be a bust either. My initial thought about Dion's per36 is that they would probably not line up with other rookies career progression, because he is averaging 31 minutes per game where most rookies are playing half that with fresh legs against back ups. Just a thought.

Andre Drummonds per36 is pretty beast, though. 12.9 pts, 13.2 rebs and 2.9 blocks. Hard to pass that up if we did a re-draft today...and I don't just mean at #4.

[RonG]

Grant knew we needed offensive help. Drummond didn't provide that, particularly not paired in a front court with TT given where their respective games are at.

He basically traded long term for short term as Dion helps more this year than Drummond likely would offensively.

Long term though we would have had a defensive stopper at center had we gutted through another year of misery offensively before we could draft a Shabazz type.

I would feel like the Thunder long term if we had a Kyrie/Shabazz/Drummond big 3 vs. a Kyrie/Waiters/Shabazz big 3.

Waiters offered more immediate help this year than Drummond, but the long term trade off is painful because we won't get another bite at a Drummond type apple while there is a Waiters type in every draft.

birdy we should be drafting on highest upside best player available in every position but PG at this point. If Grant based his choice based off your reasoning then he should be fired.

[Jack Brickman]

Not completely defined, but if you look closely you'll see a lot of what a player will eventually be. The thing is usually struggling rooks don't have starter minutes lavished on them like Dion - and now Dion no longer does. So where will his numbers go?

But if you want to have some fun, pull up the per36 numbers for some players and compare them from rookie year through their career. You may see some improvements in efficiency in various areas, even some dropoff, but you should also see many of the stats end up around career average.

There's something to be said for there still being about 50 games to go too. Dion has already gotten his finishing up at the rim to about 50% and trending upward, so that's a good sign. If he can improve gradually over the remaining games this year his statistics can still look significantly better by season's end.

Plus, it's not as if the kid doesn't have plenty of areas that he can improve. He obviously needs to work on his shooting stroke, which I can only assume is something that will be more likely to happen during the off-season than during an actual season. His main assets are that he has an NBA body, that first step, and the passing ability, and those are the types of things you can't teach. His problems, on the other hand, all seem fairly correctable, albeit given time and effort.

[Jon]

There's something to be said for there still being about 50 games to go too.

Absolutely. His rookie season isn't in the books yet, and as GCCSteel points out his per36 production isn't a complete disaster. His efficiency has been nose-diving, however, and he needs to start reversing that ASAP.

Dion can and will improve, but what we're all wondering what his ceiling is going to be ... and nothing he's done in College or in the Pros so far has him leaning towards the "Wade track" .vs. the Ben Gordon or Jamaal Crawford track. Plenty of basketball players have skills and can get you buckets, but there's only one ball and when the ball is in a player's hands ... you want him executing a skill he's proficient at.

So, just to be clear, I'm not one of the ones who's written Dion off - I just don't think he's shown all-star type talent - not in the NCAA, and not so far in the NBA.

[MRMsix6]

Dion can and will improve, but what we're all wondering what his ceiling is going to be ... and nothing he's done in College or in the Pros so far has him leaning towards the "Wade track" .vs. the Ben Gordon or Jamaal Crawford track.

Any time someone compared Waiters to Wade it was because of his play style and body type, not because he was going to be as good as Wade.

[Jon]

Any time someone compared Waiters to Wade it was because of his play style and body type, not because he was going to be as good as Wade.

Sure. It's pure hyperbole to say any unproven player is going to be as good as an established superstar, but for instance when someone is labelled the "next Jordan" you're expecting someone like a Kobe, Grant Hill, LeBron, TMac, etc, ... not the next Harold Miner.

If all Jim Boeheim meant is that there were stylistic and and body shape similarities, not potential upside ... then he probably should have reached for another example because mentioning "Wade" is just too loaded.

[Birdy89]

I noticed that the Pistons don't seem to have played much recently (not much on the Drummond front), and went to look at their schedule and between January 6-17 they only have 2 games in between those dates.

What did they do to get in so well with the schedule makers to essentially get a vacation time built into the middle of the season?

[Birdy89]

Back at it again tonight with 8 points, 11 boards, 4 blocks and a steal in his 17 minutes.

[RealKingofCleve]

Back at it again tonight with 8 points, 11 boards, 4 blocks and a steal in his 17 minutes.

He has star written all over him.

[Birdy89]

He has star written all over him.

Not sure about that, but at the very least no one in the NBA gets more out of their minutes.

His PER is now up over 22 for the first time as well. Good for 16th in the entire NBA.

[sammyvine]

with decisions like this you can see why many wanted lebron to leave the cavs.

i mean how can you draft waiters over drummond? waiters wasnt even a starter in college.

[Jack Brickman]

with decisions like this you can see why many wanted lebron to leave the cavs.

i mean how can you draft waiters over drummond? waiters wasnt even a starter in college.

Because sometimes a statement is so stupid, words are pointless:

[Len]

I don't know if a lot of people actually view this thread. But since it is more based on a comparison of the player and a future player I thought it appropriate to place it here.

Since most of us were Drummond Supporters. Are we just as excited to add Noel to this team?

I am torn atm. Drummond to me, was the big, tough, large, athletic, and fast Center that I wanted.

Now on to Noel: He is putting up GREAT Defensive numbers, but god dam he is so skinny. He actually has bulked up which is great, but his frame just looks so small and his shoulders too. Also, like Drummond, he has the Size/Speed.

Ultimately: Can we discredit him, and not draft him, because he doesn't have a Jumpshot and doesn't fit next to TT? Are we going to miss out on another draft pick because of TT?

[Jack Brickman]

I don't know if a lot of people actually view this thread. But since it is more based on a comparison of the player and a future player I thought it appropriate to place it here.

Since most of us were Drummond Supporters. Are we just as excited to add Noel to this team?

I am torn atm. Drummond to me, was the big, tough, large, athletic, and fast Center that I wanted.

Now on to Noel: He is putting up GREAT Defensive numbers, but god dam he is so skinny. He actually has bulked up which is great, but his frame just looks so small and his shoulders too. Also, like Drummond, he has the Size/Speed.

Ultimately: Can we discredit him, and not draft him, because he doesn't have a Jumpshot and doesn't fit next to TT? Are we going to miss out on another draft pick because of TT?

I think there were reasons beyond his fit next to Thompson that went in to the team's decision not to draft Drummond. From everything I've read, Noel doesn't appear to have any of the big man red flags that Drummond had coming out of school.