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  1. #571
    Admittedly Pompous Randolphkeys's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 7foot3 View Post
    I'm not saying we didn't. I'm saying that hitting on 4 is vastly more important than what you do at 17 (or 24/33/34).

    And Keys, a pick just outside the lottery doesn't have a great shot at being a potential all star.

    http://www.82games.com/nbadraftpicks.htm

    Don't just look at #17, 15-19 show that a lot more guys wash out than turn in valuable minutes. The stars aren't zero, but its a very low percentage. It makes little sense to adjust your strategy at 4 because of what you think you can do at 17.


    And I know you weren't in the gyms, but when statements are made like Robinson "lit up" Drummond, how is the first thought not to scratch your head and wonder what team thinks that Drummond should be in that position to have to guard a quicker guy straight up? You want to see how he can anchor the defense, and alter shots of perimeter guys who try to drive the lane.
    Grant's strategy places a very different value on mid-firsts than you do. He's building up assets under the impression that a mid-first is damn important. He's staking his career as a GM on it.
    “He (Dellavedova) was doin' too much.” ~Paul George, January 5th

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  3. #572
    Drafting workout allstars RchfldCavRaised's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    I'm happy with the draft. I think the fact that both guys are going to be in the Rising Stars game tells us that the Cavs did fine.
    Landry Fields and Marshon Brooks played in last years game.

    Should they also be considered building blocks?
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  5. #573
    Drafting workout allstars RchfldCavRaised's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by polklop1 View Post
    I'd be willing to bet I watched more UConn games last year than most anyone in this thread. I asked the initial question to the poster because I don't think he knew very much about that team. Don't respond to a question if you're only going to act smug and not add any insight. Makes you look like a douche.

    Sorry for the temporary thread derailment, less internet piss fights, more Andre Drummond talk.
    You asked that of me.

    I watch not just Uconn games, but pretty much any good college basketball game I can get my eyes on. The Big East was ass last year. Still... I sat through Uconn vs Providence and even a few Rutgers games (dont remember why). I saw better basketball being played in the MAC and in tge Sun Belt conference than the trash in the Big East last year.

    I watched Uconn lose early in the season when the got beat by the trashy team from out west and knew they had chemistry issues and a lack of leadership then. They missed Walkers leadership and the guy with the permanent black eyes (odom i think) they missed his inspired glue guy play from the year before. Oriakhi didnt like being benched for Drummond and the two of them never seemed to communicate which stunted a true frosh like Drummond when Oriakhi should have been mentoring him. Napier played like Waiters without a steady solid personality like Jardine to keep him on a short leash, so he was all over the place, game by game. It was just a ugly situation for the team as a whole.

    You were not the only guy capable of finding Big East games with your remote controller, in short.
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  7. #574
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RchfldCavRaised View Post
    You asked that of me.

    I watch not just Uconn games, but pretty much any good college basketball game I can get my eyes on. The Big East was ass last year. Still... I sat through Uconn vs Providence and even a few Rutgers games (dont remember why). I saw better basketball being played in the MAC and in tge Sun Belt conference than the trash in the Big East last year.

    I watched Uconn lose early in the season when the got beat by the trashy team from out west and knew they had chemistry issues and a lack of leadership then. They missed Walkers leadership and the guy with the permanent black eyes (odom i think) they missed his inspired glue guy play from the year before. Oriakhi didnt like being benched for Drummond and the two of them never seemed to communicate which stunted a true frosh like Drummond when Oriakhi should have been mentoring him. Napier played like Waiters without a steady solid personality like Jardine to keep him on a short leash, so he was all over the place, game by game. It was just a ugly situation for the team as a whole.

    You were not the only guy capable of finding Big East games with your remote controller, in short.
    My initial question was not directed at you if you look back.

  8. #575
    Drafting workout allstars RchfldCavRaised's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by polklop1 View Post
    My initial question was not directed at you if you look back.
    Was there anything i missed in the synopsis of last years Uconn Huskies?
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  9. #576
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RchfldCavRaised View Post
    Was there anything i missed in the synopsis of last years Uconn Huskies?
    It's a decent synopsis. Drummond and Oriakhi both struggled, and I think the coaching staff deserves a fair share of the blame there, especially with Oriakhi. I don't see Napier as very comparable to Waiters. I think it hurt the big guys playing with chuckers like Napier and Boatright. I also think it hurt them that their best lineup consisted of 3 guards and 2 centers. But I also think there were games where Lamb and Drummond, by far their most talented players, would disappear, for whatever reason, and that hurt them a lot as well.

    The fact is he underwhelmed at UConn. I'm not sure why that gets people in here so up in arms, I'm not saying it's all his fault, or that he sucks, or that the Cavs should've passed on him, or that he hasn't looked outstanding this year. It's okay to acknowledge he didn't perform to his peak in college. The only thing I had a problem with is saying it's all based on the UConn team being "toxic", which I don't think is accurate, and that one little comment has people coming at me like I have and vendetta against Drummond. I don't. I like Drummond. If you disagree with me, that's cool, that's what message boards are for.

    So, can we still be friends?

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  11. #577
    Hall of Famer Rich's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RchfldCavRaised View Post
    Landry Fields and Marshon Brooks played in last years game.

    Should they also be considered building blocks?
    Let's read what I wrote one more time.

    Did I say they were building blocks? I said the Cavs did fine.

    Is Tyler Zeller a building block? No. He's a decent player who will be a solid back-up. Is he irreplaceable? No. BUt that still doesn't mean he was a bad pick. You can't hit home-runs every time. Hitting a bunch of doubles is good too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. MacPhisto View Post
    I still hold that Kevin Love is a cancer. This team will win 50 without him, it will win 45 with him.

  12. #578
    Drafting workout allstars RchfldCavRaised's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by polklop1 View Post
    I think the coaching staff deserves a fair share of the blame there, especially with Oriakhi...

    The only thing I had a problem with is saying it's all based on the UConn team being "toxic", which I don't think is accurate...
    These two statements contradict themselves in college basketball. Bad coaching makes a team environment toxic. Benching Oriakhi from day one, for a 18 year old freshman makes the most dominant personality on the team, one that just spearheaded the post for your championship team, toxic.

    If you take Michael Jordan in 1982, and put him on the Akron Zips team instead of at UNC, there is no way he would have played as well as he did without Worthy mentoring him his freshman year, and then Perkins and Daugherty banging for him the next.

    Transitioning freshman need the best environment they can get to produce. Not sure why you think he had that at Uconn when his upperclassman mentor hated him and his coach was fighting so hard for this life that he retired at seasons end.
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  13. #579
    Drafting workout allstars RchfldCavRaised's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    Let's read what I wrote one more time.

    Did I say they were building blocks? I said the Cavs did fine.

    Is Tyler Zeller a building block? No. He's a decent player who will be a solid back-up. Is he irreplaceable? No. BUt that still doesn't mean he was a bad pick. You can't hit home-runs every time. Hitting a bunch of doubles is good too.
    We arent trying to do fine. We ARE trying to hit home runs. We had doubles around LeBron already. He needed another homerun who complimented him beside him.

    Had a talk with another Cavs fan today. Asked me if I thought they were drafting supporting players on purpose so they never have to overpay to keep them or trade them away like the system seems to be setup for teams with 2 Max guys.

    Never considered that. I couldnt imagine that being the goal. Trying to hit doubles and banking on getting our second MAX guy through FA.

    Though I do think a guy like TT can never truly warrant a MAX contract, I think Waiters could if he were given his own team and allowed to grow on the job with the ball. (rambling, just saying...)
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  14. #580
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RchfldCavRaised View Post
    These two statements contradict themselves in college basketball. Bad coaching makes a team environment toxic. Benching Oriakhi from day one, for a 18 year old freshman makes the most dominant personality on the team, one that just spearheaded the post for your championship team, toxic.

    If you take Michael Jordan in 1982, and put him on the Akron Zips team instead of at UNC, there is no way he would have played as well as he did without Worthy mentoring him his freshman year, and then Perkins and Daugherty banging for him the next.

    Transitioning freshman need the best environment they can get to produce. Not sure why you think he had that at Uconn when his upperclassman mentor hated him and his coach was fighting so hard for this life that he retired at seasons end.
    I guess you'll just ignore everything else I wrote.

    Not every situation is perfect, there's a lot of worse environments he could have been in last year.

    :shrug:

  15. #581
    Drafting workout allstars RchfldCavRaised's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by polklop1 View Post
    I guess you'll just ignore everything else I wrote.

    Not every situation is perfect, there's a lot of worse environments he could have been in last year.

    :shrug:
    He could have chose Baylor or Kent State (shot at The Hill). Those would have been worse.

    But... not sure I follow what you are saying now.

    Are you saying his environment was good enough for him to dominate? Are you saying he could have been in a worse situation so he should have just taken over?

    There are some big guy programs that turn out big guys because they are committed to doing so. He could have chose Georgetown and I guarantee that in year 1, he would have looked better. He could have gone to a team with a coach who didnt fight cancer and who would have had a stronger hold on his lockerroom.

    Im not ignoring anything you said. Im asking what are you saying?

    Uconn was a toxic situation last year. That was clear to anyone who watched them.
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RchfldCavRaised View Post
    He could have chose Baylor or Kent State (shot at The Hill). Those would have been worse.

    But... not sure I follow what you are saying now.

    Are you saying his environment was good enough for him to dominate? Are you saying he could have been in a worse situation so he should have just taken over?

    There are some big guy programs that turn out big guys because they are committed to doing so. He could have chose Georgetown and I guarantee that in year 1, he would have looked better. He could have gone to a team with a coach who didnt fight cancer and who would have had a stronger hold on his lockerroom.

    Im not ignoring anything you said. Im asking what are you saying?

    Uconn was a toxic situation last year. That was clear to anyone who watched them.
    I'm saying with his talent he should've done better, and that I don't give the situation 100% of the blame and Drummond 0%.

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  18. #583
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    Just searched the Drummond draft thread, the words toxic and cancerous are nowhere to be found.

    :sipscoffee:

  19. #584
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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    As soon as Rtch admits the Cavs chose right on Thompson, I'll admit they should have taken Drummond.
    So never?

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    Default Re: The Andre Drummond Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Randolphkeys View Post
    Grant's strategy places a very different value on mid-firsts than you do. He's building up assets under the impression that a mid-first is damn important. He's staking his career as a GM on it.
    Sure, you build up assets, and you don't just throw darts at the board with your draft picks. But where do you get the idea that Grant doesn't value the #4 pick a hell of a lot more than the #17? Picking Waiters over Drummond had nothing to do with Zeller.

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