James Harden rejects OKC Offer / *Traded* to Rockets

[Triumph36]

I really do think if Harden was ever going to turn into a #1 option-caliber star like he's been these first two games, he needed to get out of OKC. He had a very specific role on that Thunder team which totally suppressed his game. A change of scenery to a team like the Rockets this early in his career where they straight up told him they needed him to be the superstar of the team was just what he needed to explode.

Glad he was able to get out of Durant and Westbrook's shadows...the NBA seems to have gained another star from it.

Harden obv wasn't going to be a #1 guy in OKC because Durant is top 3 in the league, but I do think he could've blown up in OKC too. All they had to do was trade Westbrook, preferably for a star big who could bolster their front line.

Harden was already ridiculously efficient in OKC; he just didn't get the much-deserved attention because someone else was taking 19 shots per game and dominating the ball.

I think it's quite a bit similar to Bynum - guy puts up great efficiency but is underused because he's playing with 2 other all-stars.

I'll comment at the allstar break with a bigger sample size. This could be another star on the horizon or it could be a player with a chip on his shoulder who could come back down to earth.

harden already is a star, and not because of what he's done in these 2 games.

[Mdog1]

lebron, durant, howard, paul, wade, rose, p gasol, harden, love, aldridge, dirk, bynum, kobe [not in order btw]

I could concede the first 5, but for this season Rose isn't going to play enough, Harden's played two games at an all star level, Gasol has never been as good as Westbrook was last year, and Bynum is not on Westbrook's level. I'd take Aldridge over Westbrook to start a team, but Westbrook is a better player. I'll even give you Dirk and Kobe that still makes Westbrook the 10th best player in the league including Aldridge...

[kidduck]

The Cavs could have offered more than Rockets for James Harden
Published: Sunday, November 04, 2012

By Jim Ingraham
JIngraham@News-Herald.com
@jitribeinsider

How did James Harden end up in Houston and not Cleveland?

Only a handful of people know the answer to that question, but Harden makes as much sense for the Cavaliers as he did for the Houston Rockets — and the Cavs should have been able to offer a package for Harden that could have exceeded what the Rockets gave the Oklahoma City Thunder for the multi-talented 6-foot-5 swingman.

That's saying a lot, because what the Rockets gave the Thunder for Harden was a lot — Kevin Martin, Jeremy Lamb, two future first-round picks and one future second-round pick.

The Cavs could have offered Anderson Varejao — a player they are likely going to trade at some point this season anyway — Dion Waiters and two first-round draft picks that figure to be top-five selections, i.e. better than the ones the Thunder will get from Houston.


That's a lot, but Harden is worth a lot. Even to a rebuilding team like the Cavaliers. Harden is 23 years old — just five months older than Tyler Zeller — so he fits right into a rebuilding roster.

A backcourt of Kyrie Irving and Harden would have instantly become one of the best in the league, one the Cavs probably could have had together for the next five years, at least. Harden has experience playing with a scoring point guard — he did so with Russell Westbrook in Oklahoma City — so that part of the equation would have worked.

Giving up two first-round picks?

It sounds pricey, but what would the best-case scenario be for those picks? This: that the Cavs could find a player as good as James Harden. Why not save yourself the time and use those picks to acquire Harden?

The Oklahoma City-Houston trade seemed to happen quickly. Maybe the Thunder could have shopped Harden more, once they decided they had to move him because, unlike some of his OKC teammates, he was, for the greater good, unwilling to agree to a contract extension at somewhat below his market value.

Maybe the rapidity of the trade prevented the Cavs from getting seriously into the auction. Or maybe the Cavs did and simply weren't aggressive enough with their offer.
Either way, one of the best young players in the NBA switched teams last week, a player who could have been invaluable to the Cavs. Normally it would not be worth it for the rebuilding Cavs to have an interest in trading for a disgruntled veteran. But Harden is a 23-year-old veteran — young enough and good enough that he could have been a valuable piece to the championship puzzle the Cavs are trying to assemble.

Harden was seeking, and received, a mammoth contract extension — five years, $80 million from the Rockets — but since when has Cavs owner Dan Gilbert been scared off a player by dollar signs?

In the NBA today, you need three stars to win. Acquiring Harden would have put the Cavs two-thirds of the way there.

Link: http://www.news-herald.com/articles/...mode=fullstory

[Triumph36]

i would've given okc a lot for harden. a lot. but no deals would've made sense for okc.

they aren't rebuilding, they need to stay relevant now. they can't afford to wait years for more youth to develop, at which point they'll run into more financial issues yet again. their time to contend is now. houston gave them a player who can replace some of harden's scoring now, plus some decent youth going forward. okc lost in the trade, but in any trade with the cavs they would've ended up even bigger losers.

and those 2 draft picks absolutely wouldn't have been in the top 5 with irving and harden playing together.

["Boobie" Gibson]

That is a terrible article.

Varejao is invaluable, Waiters looks every bit a future star, and 2 future lottery picks? All for Harden? Who would the Cavs even have to pair with Irving and Harden?

Worst idea I have heard.

[Mdog1]

I would have liked Harden personally, but Dion (4th pick), Andy, and two picks is literally 100x the package that they actually recieved...

Lamb (12th pick) <<<<< Dion (4th pick)
Martin <<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Andy
Raps pick <<<<<<<< Two Cavs picks

Andy would be their third best player this season, Dion is far better than Lamb as a prospect, and two picks are better than that they might not recieve until 2018...

That is a terrible trade for us.

[Triumph36]

i think the most i would've given is waiters/#4, thompson, and av for harden and jones/#28

what would've been ideal is if the cavs took jonas instead of thompson; then offered waiters, av, and all those crappy late 1sts/early 2nds they've acquired like kings, magic, heat, etc picks for harden, perk, and jones.

okc wouldn't have said yes to either tho so meh. cavs' future would've been looking real bright tho

[Randolphkeys]

The Cavs have spent the past three years telling the NBA that they are building through the draft, and they will offer certain assets up for first round picks. I doubt OKC bothered calling the Cavaliers because they are both small markets trying to build the exact same way.

[Gimme Some Mo]

If we make that trade our team is....

Irving
Harden
Gee
Thompson
Zeller

Bench scrubs

That team is a 1st round exit every year.... at best one series win and done. How would we improve that team if we gave up 2 first round picks? We'd have nothing to trade with Varejao, Waiters, and our draft picks gone. Free agency?.... in Cleveland.... yea right.

No thanks. I like James Harden A LOT, but that move would've made us the Atlanta Hawks of the past 5 years IMO.

[Triumph36]

If we make that trade our team is....

Irving
Harden
Gee
Thompson
Zeller

Bench scrubs

That team is a 1st round exit every year.... at best one series win and done. How would we improve that team if we gave up 2 first round picks? We'd have nothing to trade with Varejao, Waiters, and our draft picks gone. Free agency?.... in Cleveland.... yea right.

No thanks. I like James Harden A LOT, but that move would've made us the Atlanta Hawks of the past 5 years IMO.

not that i necessarily disagree with your point, but as of now that looks like a very realistic outcome of the cavs even without the trade anyways...

[GCCSteel]

not that i necessarily disagree with your point, but as of now that looks like a very realistic outcome of the cavs even without the trade anyways...

Kyrie/Waiters/Gee/TT/Varejao will get us a top 5-10 draft pick and we can move Varejao for more.

Kyrie/Harden/Gee/TT/Zeller would be late lottery or MAYBE playoffs with no AV to trade and lose the pick next year.

No thanks. I think Waiters has the potential to be as good as Harden long term and we will be bad enough to accumulate some more talent until he matures. Slow and easy at first.

[Lottery God]

Kyrie/Waiters/Gee/TT/Varejao will get us a top 5-10 draft pick and we can move Varejao for more.

Kyrie/Harden/Gee/TT/Zeller would be late lottery or MAYBE playoffs with no AV to trade and lose the pick next year.

No thanks. I think Waiters has the potential to be as good as Harden long term and we will be bad enough to accumulate some more talent until he matures. Slow and easy at first.

At AV's current playing level, he's worth a top 5 pick in itself. I don't see us getting anything worse than a top 10 pick + a young asset along with it for him. And you're right about us nailing another top 5, top 10 pick this season. And then we'd lose the 2014 pick AND Waiters? I agree that our current situation is much better than that proposed trade. Dion and Andy is really all I'd be willing to give up for Harden, but it would really stink if Waiters ended up being just as good as Harden.

Now the Harden's traded away, a new trade opportunity has risen. A team that is in dire need of good big men (OKC) and is in win-now mode has young assets and a likely top 10 or even top 5 lottery pick. We're in the business of collecting such picks and young talent right now, and we happen to have the perfect big man for OKC in Anderson Varejao. Andy would abuse the Heat's big men in the post especially on rebounds. This trade makes way too much sense not to happen.

[Mdog1]

At AV's current playing level, he's worth a top 5 pick in itself. I don't see us getting anything worse than a top 10 pick + a young asset along with it for him. And you're right about us nailing another top 5, top 10 pick this season. And then we'd lose the 2014 pick AND Waiters? I agree that our current situation is much better than that proposed trade. Dion and Andy is really all I'd be willing to give up for Harden, but it would really stink if Waiters ended up being just as good as Harden.

Now the Harden's traded away, a new trade opportunity has risen. A team that is in dire need of good big men (OKC) and is in win-now mode has young assets and a likely top 10 or even top 5 lottery pick. We're in the business of collecting such picks and young talent right now, and we happen to have the perfect big man for OKC in Anderson Varejao. Andy would abuse the Heat's big men in the post especially on rebounds. This trade makes way too much sense not to happen.

We just have to pray to whatever gods each individual on this board may believe in that he can be healthy atleat until the all star break, and then the trade may happen. Hell Andy could make the all star team this year (coach's vote...), and then his value will go up even more. The thing with Andy is it is no guarantee that he'll even play 30 games.

[tsteele316]

Kyrie/Waiters/Gee/TT/Varejao will get us a top 5-10 draft pick and we can move Varejao for more.

Kyrie/Harden/Gee/TT/Zeller would be late lottery or MAYBE playoffs with no AV to trade and lose the pick next year.

No thanks. I think Waiters has the potential to be as good as Harden long term and we will be bad enough to accumulate some more talent until he matures. Slow and easy at first.

besides the obvious glaring deficiencies in that article, there's also the little matter of whether or not harden would have even entertained signing a max deal with cleveland so as to facilitate the trade anyway.

[Jack Brickman]

The Cavs could have offered more than Rockets for James Harden
Published: Sunday, November 04, 2012

By Jim Ingraham
JIngraham@News-Herald.com
@jitribeinsider

How did James Harden end up in Houston and not Cleveland?

Blah blah blah...omitting the rest of the article to save space.

Look, I would have loved for the Cavs to get Harden. However, it just wasn't realistic. Say we had given up what the article stated: Waiters, Varejao, and two of our own first-rounders. What would that have left us with? Kyrie, Harden, Gee, Thompson, Zeller, Miles, Casspi, and a bunch of bench players barely fit to wear an NBA uniform. It would have left us with a team that probably wouldn't have been able to make the playoffs, only we'd have two years coming up (presumably 2012 and 2014) where we were unable to add talent to the team via the draft because we lacked our own first-rounder.

Sure, we'd still have the LAL/Miami pick, but I highly doubt we're going to add a blue-chipper near the end of the first round.

And sure, we'd have Kyrie and Harden, but we'd have almost no remaining assets and limited draft picks with which to get better. All this would leave us with is free agency, and we know how easy it is to get star-caliber free agents to come to Cleveland.

This just wasn't realistic for the Cavs.