To Tank or not to Tank, that is the question

[Chris]

I will say this.

We might only be in year 2 of the rebuild, but we have 4 #1 picks in the past 2 years within that time frame.

Losing is one thing.

The fact we still don't look like we have alot of NBA talent is the thing that is very disconcerting because with that many 1st round picks added to your roster you should be very competitive.

Sort of agree, but this is the NBA. The drafts just are not very deep and the Cavs can do nothing about it.

[Jack Brickman]

I can't even get excited about tanking anymore. Chris will probably pick some unknown prospect again

Considering Waiters is one of the few players on our team that is exciting to watch and looks like he has a ton of potential, I'd say Chris did a good job drafting him.

Sort of agree, but this is the NBA. The drafts just are not very deep and the Cavs can do nothing about it.

Also, it's year two! Kyrie and Tristan are sophomores. You can't honestly expect two guys in their second year to lead a team to the playoffs. It's totally unrealistic. Our starting line-up has two sophomores and a rookie, and they are three of our best four players! I honestly don't know how anyone expects a team as young and inexperienced as ours to compete with a roster of veterans like the Bulls. We'll have trouble competing with most teams, but unless everyone on our team catches fire, we're really going to struggle against good teams.

[godfather]

Not sure if I understand the question. Should we be rooting for them to tank? Or should the team literally tank. Not trying to be a smart ass, but we have very little effect over what they do.

But I don't want them to "tank", I want them to win games. Of course I want the best talent in the draft, etc, but we have a enough young core pieces that any fan should want to see them be competitive and start winning.

That said, I'm not going to freak out every time they get the doors blown off them like last night. I was seriously laughing at all the fans freaking out over it. We're still a very young team, we're still not very good, but we're going to see a lot of progress too. And there will be nights where we clearly are over matched by better teams.

So it's not a big deal if we're still bad, and end up in the lottery. I'll be worried if that's still the case in Kyrie's 4th season though.

But it is important to at least see growth.

[Randolphkeys]

I'm saying this season what I already said last season:

The unofficial tank is already in place due to the roster setup.

Why else would the Cavs ignore players in their prime in free agency, aside from CJ Miles who seemed to force Grant to sign him to a cheap contract at gunpoint? Why sign Kevin Jones, Micheal Eric and Harangody when Ryan Gomes and Donte Greene were out there? Why trade for Pargo when Barbosa didn't have any offers?

The plan is to develop our young talent this year and create a young nucleus. Wins will be incidental in comparison to development. They aren't trying to lose games, but they aren't trying to make any moves for the short-term.

It's a soft-tank season.

[Frank Reynolds]

2014 is really the year to acquire a high draft pick. I wouldn't be opposed to tanking for a high pick, but trading our 2013 for a 2014 pick. If we could get into the top 4-5 in 2014 we could acquire another star. That is unless we luck into Shabazz Muhammad this year. I like Cody Zeller, but I don't see his game translating to the pros the way Mohammad's game will. Nerlens Noel is an interesting player. He's no Anthony Davis, but he's no slouch either. He'd be a very solid talent acquisition if we can get that high in the draft.

2014 I like Andrew Wiggins, Julius Randle and Jabari Parker as blue chip talents.

We need to do whatever possible to get Kyrie another Super-star player. If we could somehow achieve that goal, Kyrie will likely stay. If we fail to do so again, welp then said player will have the justification to leave. We need to make Kyrie an offer he can't refuse, and that is pair him with another star talent.

Trades, Draft whatever the fuck it takes we need to pull the trigger when the window opens. If you dilly dick around and be a stubborn cheap ass conservative GM, the window closes forever and we all will take it painfully in the ass on national television (decision or not). PULL THE FUCKIN TRIGGER GRANT. Grants conservatism is good right now, we are not wasting money or assets, but there's a time to be cheap and time to use the ammo that you have.

[Jack Brickman]

2014 is really the year to acquire a high draft pick. I wouldn't be opposed to tanking for a high pick, but trading our 2013 for a 2014 pick. If we could get into the top 4-5 in 2014 we could acquire another star. That is unless we luck into Shabazz Muhammad this year. I like Cody Zeller, but I don't see his game translating to the pros the way Mohammad's game will. Nerlens Noel is an interesting player. He's no Anthony Davis, but he's no slouch either. He'd be a very solid talent acquisition if we can get that high in the draft.

2014 I like Andrew Wiggins, Julius Randle and Jabari Parker as blue chip talents.

We need to do whatever possible to get Kyrie another Super-star player. If we could somehow achieve that goal, Kyrie will likely stay. If we fail to do so again, welp then said player will have the justification to leave. We need to make Kyrie an offer he can't refuse, and that is pair him with another star talent.

Trades, Draft whatever the fuck it takes we need to pull the trigger when the window opens. If you dilly dick around and be a stubborn cheap ass conservative GM, the window closes forever and we all will take it painfully in the ass on national television (decision or not). PULL THE FUCKIN TRIGGER GRANT. Grants conservatism is good right now, we are not wasting money or assets, but there's a time to be cheap and time to use the ammo that you have.

The thing is, you never know who is going to translate best to the pros, and you never know what's going to happen in college. Everyone thought Barnes was a blue chip talent in high school, but then he was underwhelming in college and actually regressed from his freshman to sophomore year (which to me is a huge red flag). Out of high school, many thought he'd be a future number one pick. He ended up going seventh. I was actively rooting against the Cavs drafting him.

It's easy to say we need this player or that player, but really, we have no idea who is going to tear it up in college and who isn't going to cut it.

[Frank Reynolds]

Thats a good point Jack. I still believe that we need to find Kyrie that second star to play next to. Maybe it's Dion, maybe not, but that simple fact cannot be ignored. We'd be the laughing stock of the NBA forever if we had a total of 14 separate years to find our superstar player(s) a complementary star (assuming Kyrie re-signs after his rookie deal) It's just critical, we need to give up whatever it takes to make the deal whenever it comes around. Danny Ferry only knew one way, rape and pillage the other team. You gotta give something to get something.

[randymoss1881]

people who dont like the tank are gonna be mad when november finishes. We play at milwaukee, clippers, warriors, suns, okc, and brooklyn. Then come back home for dallas, the play philly back to back games,then another road trip to orlando (looked good last night), miami, memphis, and then we finish up with memphis, phoenix atlanta. We could easily loose all the games but lets say we beat orlando and pheonix we would have a 3-13 in 16 games. We also play good teams and go on bad road trips in december, january, and febuary. By febuary we should only have more wins then the bobcats so people really need to prepare for another bad season

[Tornicade]

People who get sick of the tank talk arent really bothered by the Cavs losing. We just dont cheer for it or believe its intentional.

We expect things like Players being held out longer for injuries boring acquisitions nad bumbling play. Its all part of building a team.

its the implication that the players or coaching staff is intentionally tying to lose games and thats not the case. if the Cavs lose stretches or come out with a poor record . it is because the roster wasnt capable or hadnt grown enough to win those games. not some intentional intention to not be competitive.

I understand the appeal of the tank . its probably much easier to deal with a loss if you think your team is doing it on purpose. implying that they had some control in it. but its a sham they do not.

What Grant is doing from a roster standpoint is developing a core and giving himself options down the road. These means all his decisions are made from a development stand point not trying to chase wins.

the term tanking is a way to measure losses as a success and thats ridiculous. the only way to measure this team is in terms of development. Wins will come as players develop. I dont see the Cavs trying to stall that aspect of the team progress no matter what ya want to call it.

["Boobie" Gibson]

The poll is constructed poorly.

Yes, I want to gather another top notch pick and also develop the young guns. But I want to do it in a way that they are successful and gaining confidence. That really isn't a tanking situation.

[BannerYearz]

Interesting..

Some people actually thought the Cavs were going to contend this year for anything.

I bet they thought the Browns would win the AFC North this year, too..

People want to believe these things because we have had 0 winning seasons in any sport since 7/8/10 (I know that the Indians got close in 2011 and looked like they were going to do so for much of 2012.)

The fact that by comparison, back in 1995, we had a World Series-caliber Indians team and a decent Cavs team to fall back on, is why I continue to consider LeBron WORSE than Art Modell.

People are also scared that Kyrie will consider the body of work we've had under him and ditch us for nothing or essentially nothing if we don't hurry (and by "hurry" I mean I'd be willing to take shortcuts that could risk mediocrity.) The fact that people have been able to get at this, and possible attendance issues, in this thread without nearly the pushback they had last season tells me something.

[EMIXIM]

I'm in it for the long haul. Is 13-14 tank not a real possibility? Imagine the type of dynasty we could form if we draft in the top 5 again the next two years.

[Nathan S]

Playing Luke Walton 6 or 8 minutes every game would actually be extremely effective toward that end. Dial up to 10-12 minutes if Kyrie's having a great night. I wonder if the NBA would do something to regulate tanking if the Cavs just completely didn't try for 6 or 8 minutes of every game, and ended up with a top-3 pick in spite of having a league-average starting 5?

[mmajeski06]

Cant expect players to lose on purpose. Try their best, record will take care of itself. Not a team that is in danger of sneaking into the playoffs yet.

[EMIXIM]

I don't think anyone expects the players to intentionally loose, they obviously are going to try to win. It's the front office that's doing the tanking. I think as fans we should still want the team to play at their highest level, and watching the games for individual development still makes it entertaining. Last nite's game was good for what we need to have happen, a clutch performance by Kyrie and decent play from our starters, but a horrible contribution from our backups that jeopardized the game and ultimately lead to a loss against a team that, come the end of the season we may not be able to afford to beat.