View Poll Results: To Tank or Not to Tank

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  • Yes, I want to secure a high draft pick and develop the young players.

    209 71.58%
  • No, go for the most wins and play the vets.

    34 11.64%
  • I'm still pissed that Disney bought Star Wars.

    49 16.78%
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  1. #361
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    Default Tank Mode in full swing?

    Kurt Helin from probasketball reports:
    Its been a rough go for the Cleveland Cavaliers since Kyrie Irving broke his finger they are 2-6 with him out of the lineup. In the last five games they have an offensive rating of 96 (points per 100 possessions), which would be second worst in the NBA this season, ahead of only the Washington Wizards (who also are missing a point guard).

    And it may be a little longer before the Cavaliers get Irving back from the hairline fracture in his left index finger.

    Thats the update from coach Byron Scott, speaking to the News Herald.

    Irving is probably a couple weeks away from returning to the practice floor in contact drills. Hes been practicing lately, but when they have contact, he sits out.

    I know hes anxious, Scott said. Were not going to take any chances. Well leave it up to the doctors. He has to get at least one practice in. The chance of him coming back early, I dont know.

    The 4-15 Cavaliers are not going anywhere, they should not rush Irving back. There is no reason, they need to think long term.

    But man, I do miss watching him play. Hopefully he gets back soon
    Seems like Byron and company have jumped on the tank. Keep it rolling FO

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  3. #362
    Birthing All-Stars Free Agency God's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tank Mode in full swing?

    Quote Originally Posted by ICEman116 View Post
    Kurt Helin from probasketball reports:

    Seems like Byron and company have jumped on the tank. Keep it rolling FO
    Scott's generally been on the tank the whole time. He seemingly pulls players for "developmental lessons" at times, but I think he understands that we need to draft high if we are to get great players like Kyrie. If we get screwed out of a high draft pick, Scott has no one to blame but himself.

  4. #363
    Hall of Famer Mdog1's Avatar
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    Default Re: To Tank or not to Tank, that is the question

    Quote Originally Posted by Birdy89 View Post
    You left out the biggest key.

    Michael Jordan retired. Otherwise the Bulls would have won 8 straight titles.
    Tell me because I forget, what happened the year that Jordan came back? I can't quite remember who won the title that year...

    Quote Originally Posted by Baseline Runner View Post
    Thanks for the post, that kind of proves my point. I said the Bulls made a gradual progression from bad too good. They didn't go from bad to contenders overnight like OKC did. It took them 7 years from the time Jordan was drafted until they won 60 games and a title. The Pistons and Rockets gradually got better and better too after they had their key pieces (Isiah and Olajuwon post Sampson).

    If we have our key pieces in Irving/Dion/Varejao/Zeller/TT, then lets gradually get better like those teams did.
    If you think Andy is going to be a key piece at 36 then you've got a rude awakening coming when he turns 33...

  5. #364
    Logjammin' narbar32's Avatar
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    Default Re: To Tank or not to Tank, that is the question

    Looks to be the third "down year" in a row for the draft, only this time there doesn't even appear to be an "except for the top prospect" caveat.

    Thank Odin's Raven we got one of the "except for" guys in the past two drafts, but holy hell what an unfortunate time to be rebuilding through the draft.

    Luckily, the 2014 draft, likely after our young guys are finally able to a season of mediocrity, will probably have a guy at the top who's being called by some the best prospect of this decade in Andrew Wiggins, a SF, along with the prior "next big thing" out of the high school kids, Jabari Parker, another SF.

    My Cleveland sports fan senses are tingling. Can't even win for losing.

    P.S. I'm only being half-serious here, as HS phenoms come and go (ahem, Mayo, Barnes, Rivers, etc...) and you just never know how each draft may actually pan out, but damn doesn't it just beat all the way things look from this vantage point? The fact that I can't even really hate the Tristan at #4 pick only because of the shit picked after him just furthers this idea in my head.

  6. #365
    All Star Giambiwannabe7's Avatar
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    Default Re: To Tank or not to Tank, that is the question

    I don't think this past draft was a down year. I think this past draft will end up yielding some really nice players. There may not be a true superstar, though, so in that sense I guess you could say it wasn't a great draft.

  7. #366
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    Default Re: Tank Mode in full swing?

    Quote Originally Posted by RMsDanielGibson View Post
    Scott's generally been on the tank the whole time. He seemingly pulls players for "developmental lessons" at times, but I think he understands that we need to draft high if we are to get great players like Kyrie. If we get screwed out of a high draft pick, Scott has no one to blame but himself.
    yea Byron's been riding the tank pretty successfully, it is his players he has to coach after all

  8. #367
    Veteran shoes22's Avatar
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    Default

    Wiggins looks the most LeBron-esque player coming out of high school since LeBron, so there's understandable hype for him. But he's only coming in the 2014 draft, along with a couple other projected studs. Unfortunately by that time, if our front office is doing even a remotely competent job, we will be far away from the lottery and hopefully playoff bound.

    So let's look towards the 2013 draft. Most of you seem dead set on tanking, but I'm not sure where that will get you. In this year's draft you have the other Zeller brother, Shabazz, Nerlens Noel, a couple other centers and average players after that. Even with the top 3 I just mentioned, none scream "superstar potential", and there is no consensus #1 like virtually every other draft year. This is a bad thing.

    For most teams, the reason you tank is to get superstars. Virtually all superstars (if any) are drafted between #1-3 in the draft. Sometimes #4 or #5 in an especially deep draft year. The lottery is in place so that any of the bottom 14 teams have a shot at #1-3. If you draft at #6 or higher, the odds you have a future all-star are fairly low. So if we're not getting an all-star in the draft, at that point aren't you just better off in free agency or making trades with your other assets? The Cavs are lucky in that they already HAVE their superstar and a seemingly competent second option in Waiters.

    At the very worst, whomever we draft in 2013 should be decent enough to start on next year's squad, but after that we really shouldn't be looking for any MAJOR pieces through the draft, making tanking unnecessary.

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  10. #368
    Situational Stopper B3team's Avatar
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    Default Re: To Tank or not to Tank, that is the question

    Quote Originally Posted by shoes22 View Post
    Wiggins looks the most LeBron-esque player coming out of high school since LeBron, so there's understandable hype for him. But he's only coming in the 2014 draft, along with a couple other projected studs. Unfortunately by that time, if our front office is doing even a remotely competent job, we will be far away from the lottery and hopefully playoff bound.

    So let's look towards the 2013 draft. Most of you seem dead set on tanking, but I'm not sure where that will get you. In this year's draft you have the other Zeller brother, Shabazz, Nerlens Noel, a couple other centers and average players after that. Even with the top 3 I just mentioned, none scream "superstar potential", and there is no consensus #1 like virtually every other draft year. This is a bad thing.

    For most teams, the reason you tank is to get superstars. Virtually all superstars (if any) are drafted between #1-3 in the draft. Sometimes #4 or #5 in an especially deep draft year. The lottery is in place so that any of the bottom 14 teams have a shot at #1-3. If you draft at #6 or higher, the odds you have a future all-star are fairly low. So if we're not getting an all-star in the draft, at that point aren't you just better off in free agency or making trades with your other assets? The Cavs are lucky in that they already HAVE their superstar and a seemingly competent second option in Waiters.

    At the very worst, whomever we draft in 2013 should be decent enough to start on next year's squad, but after that we really shouldn't be looking for any MAJOR pieces through the draft, making tanking unnecessary.
    It's too early to say there are no future all stars in this draft class. Come tournament time, Poythress and Noel could look like studs.

  11. #369
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    Default Re: To Tank or not to Tank, that is the question

    Poythress(even thought I can't stand Kentucky) is a real intriguing player. Noel, not so much.

  12. #370
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    Default Re: To Tank or not to Tank, that is the question

    Any love Noel is still getting is coming from people who don't watch the team play. He's riding the on the coat tails of success that Davis had. Coming in, people really wanted the kid to be Anthony Davis part II, but it just isn't there. Davis was a special player there, Noel not so much. He doesn't have anywhere near the skill set and fluidity that Davis had.

    For whatever teams has that TOR pick come draft time, you know they have to be hoping and praying TOR finishes in the top 3 of the lottery this year. You'd much rather have that pick in 2014. For all the hype of Noel, Shabazz, etc. there are clearly no superstars coming out of this draft. All Stars? Ya, that's possible. But, that's not good enough for the type of value you want with a top 3 player.

  13. #371
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    Default Re: To Tank or not to Tank, that is the question

    Jones said he and his teammates take their cues from Varejao and Gibson.

    “They've been here through the winning and the losing,” he said. “They're the heart and soul of the team. They make sure everybody's spirits are high and everybody is still sticking together and getting better every practice. It's their demeanor. Nothing really fazes them. It keeps you calm when you see the leaders of the team calm.”
    I think this gets overlooked a bit in this whole tanking thing. As an athlete, you play to win. Period. When you lose more than win, it can get frustrating. You question yourself, teammates, coaches, systems...everything. When you lose at alarming rates, especially after being accustomed to winning at such an optimium level, you have to wonder how the young guys are going to handle it. Players don't want to hear fans and media talking about tanking, I can promise you that.

    The two guys that get mentioned the most as tradeable commodities are the ones that have seemingly kept the young guys balanced. You have to temper your emotions, not getting too high or too low, and I'm not sure that is possible without Andy and Boobie. Even a HC with as much rep as Byron Scott can only do and say so much. You trade these two and who is left as a veteran mentor/leader for the rest of this group? You trade these guys, and make no mistake, this team gets even worse. Much worse. Who are the leaders ready to step up in the absence of these two? Luke Walton? CJ Miles? I love Kyrie, but I'm not sure he's ready to be a bonafide, true leader yet. After him, I'm not sure there is even a legit candidate. That's kind of scary.

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  15. #372
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    Default Re: To Tank or not to Tank, that is the question

    Quote Originally Posted by SmknJoe7 View Post
    For whatever teams has that TOR pick come draft time, you know they have to be hoping and praying TOR finishes in the top 3 of the lottery this year. You'd much rather have that pick in 2014. For all the hype of Noel, Shabazz, etc. there are clearly no superstars coming out of this draft. All Stars? Ya, that's possible. But, that's not good enough for the type of value you want with a top 3 player.
    IIRC, the Toronto pick is top three protected.

  16. #373
    Situational Stopper B3team's Avatar
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    Default Re: To Tank or not to Tank, that is the question

    Quote Originally Posted by Futuredome View Post
    Poythress(even thought I can't stand Kentucky) is a real intriguing player. Noel, not so much.
    Wait until tournament time, coach Calipari is good at developing talent. I bet Noel looks very good by the end of the season.

  17. #374
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    Default Re: To Tank or not to Tank, that is the question

    Quote Originally Posted by B3team View Post
    Wait until tournament time, coach Calipari is good at developing talent. I bet Noel looks very good by the end of the season.

    This is very true. Cal is great at moulding a chunk of clay into a nice piece of pottery. But, Davis just had a ready made skill set that Noel just can never be, no matter how much shaping Coach Cal does. He will undoubtedly be better than he is now, but he's not the game changer Davis was. Davis could barely score a point and still be the MVP of a game. I'm not sure Noel ever gets there.

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  19. #375
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    Default Re: To Tank or not to Tank, that is the question

    Quote Originally Posted by Gymbo View Post
    IIRC, the Toronto pick is top three protected.
    Yep. That's what I was saying. You hope that pick gets carried over to the 2014 draft, where the outlook of talent seems to be much, much higher. If it was my pick, I'm praying TOR keeps it this coming draft, improves enough to get out of the basement for the following season, and take my chances on them still being a lottery team in 2014, so I get the pick in a much stronger draft.

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