View Poll Results: To Tank or Not to Tank

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  • Yes, I want to secure a high draft pick and develop the young players.

    209 71.58%
  • No, go for the most wins and play the vets.

    34 11.64%
  • I'm still pissed that Disney bought Star Wars.

    49 16.78%
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  1. #376
    Drafting workout allstars RchfldCavRaised's Avatar
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    Default Re: To Tank or not to Tank, that is the question

    Quote Originally Posted by SmknJoe7 View Post
    Yep. That's what I was saying. You hope that pick gets carried over to the 2014 draft, where the outlook of talent seems to be much, much higher. If it was my pick, I'm praying TOR keeps it this coming draft, improves enough to get out of the basement for the following season, and take my chances on them still being a lottery team in 2014, so I get the pick in a much stronger draft.
    Everything depends on if they can move Calderon and Bargs.

    If they move those two, they start running and winning this year and that pick becomes a 9-14 range. Colangelo is trying his hardest to move both according to reports.
    The Richfield Trade Deadline Survival Kit post... here

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  3. #377
    OSU Alum KCOTT's Avatar
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    Default Re: To Tank or not to Tank, that is the question

    what if noel doesn't even come out this year? reminds me of harrison barnes' freshman year




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  4. #378
    All Star Giambiwannabe7's Avatar
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    Default Re: To Tank or not to Tank, that is the question

    Quote Originally Posted by RchfldCavRaised View Post
    Everything depends on if they can move Calderon and Bargs.

    If they move those two, they start running and winning this year and that pick becomes a 9-14 range. Colangelo is trying his hardest to move both according to reports.
    Interesting. I believe they were mentioned as one of the teams in the whole recent Gasol trade rumors the Lakers shot down. Would make sense to me. Calderon gives great depth at PG and fills in for the injured Nash, while Bargs fills the Gasol void, stretching the floor a bit more than Pau.

    Quote Originally Posted by KCOTT View Post
    what if noel doesn't even come out this year? reminds me of harrison barnes' freshman year
    This is true, but are you even allowed to stay more than one year at UK??

  5. #379
    Veteran shoes22's Avatar
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    Default Re: To Tank or not to Tank, that is the question

    Isn't the main reason Barnes stayed another year in college was to try and improve his draft stock? Obviously that plan backfired on him.

  6. #380
    Birthing All-Stars Free Agency God's Avatar
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    Default Re: To Tank or not to Tank, that is the question

    One reason why so many guys stayed in college during the 2011 draft was because of the lockout and guys were unsure of whether or not there would even be a 2011-2012 season. However, by doing this, nearly all prospects that skipped out on the 2011-2012 draft may now be regretting it. Barnes, Sullinger, and Perry Jones were all tagged for the top 5 or so, but we then saw one slip to 8 (not that bad, but still), one slip to the 20s (Sullinger), and then the last one slip to the last pick in the 1st round (PJIII). Perry Jones probably threw some seven-figure amount out the window when he stayed in college one more year.

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  8. #381
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    Default Re: To Tank or not to Tank, that is the question

    Teams around the league don't seem to be too thrilled with the 2013 draft so that may be a good opportunity for the Cavs to pick up an additional lottery pick for this draft since they likely won't be valued as highly. You might not get a franchise player but you can get another quality young piece to build with---and the Cavs need all the talent they can get. They Kyrie pick was acquired in part because of low rating of the 2011 draft.

    It's also very obvious the Cavs are tanking another season. There should be no talk about contention or when they might contend either. This team is so far away from getting close to that point and is in need of tons of quality talent before even considering it. I'm all for the patient rebuild but next year will be time to do a little more to upgrade the roster and depth. This will also only help the young players already here. I don't expect huge signings or giving up assets for veteran backups, but reasonable moves can be made without disrupting the plan rather than doing basically nothing like the last 2 offseasons.
    It's still very early in the building process and I'm not giving up but I do not see anything close to being in place that could lead the Cavs to championship contention in the next decade. Irving is a definite piece. Waiters shows signs but has a ways to go and Thompson and Zeller might just be role players or even backups on a good team.

  9. #382
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    Default Re: To Tank or not to Tank, that is the question

    For those worried about the 2014 draft.....

    Unless we sign a MAX contract this offseason, We WILL again be a lottery team next year.

    And if Varajao is delt for youth, and or picks, we will be picking top 7 in the 'talent rich' 2014 draft.

  10. #383
    All Star Giambiwannabe7's Avatar
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    Default Re: To Tank or not to Tank, that is the question

    Quote Originally Posted by mhi View Post
    For those worried about the 2014 draft.....

    Unless we sign a MAX contract this offseason, We WILL again be a lottery team next year.

    And if Varajao is delt for youth, and or picks, we will be picking top 7 in the 'talent rich' 2014 draft.
    Sure does seem like there are a whole lot of unknown variables besides just one max guy that will determine where we are drafting in the 2014 draft. It's not even 2013 yet. We have no idea if Andy or Boobie will be here. We have no clue what other additions, including FA's and draft picks that will be added, in 2013. This roster could be overhauled pretty easily in the meantime. Walton will be gone. CJ Miles will be gone. Will KI be healthy? Will Andy, if he is here? How much developing will all the young guys do?

    Way too many unknowns at this point. I would like to think that CG's plan doesn't call for us to be drafting in the lettery again in 2014, unless it is with someone else's pick.

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  12. #384
    Veteran Triumph36's Avatar
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    Default Re: To Tank or not to Tank, that is the question

    Quote Originally Posted by mhi View Post
    For those worried about the 2014 draft.....

    Unless we sign a MAX contract this offseason, We WILL again be a lottery team next year.

    And if Varajao is delt for youth, and or picks, we will be picking top 7 in the 'talent rich' 2014 draft.
    i do agree that unless the team blows a ton of money in the off-season, they are looking at a late lottery pick next year.

    the problem i'm seeing is that the cavs won't trade varejao and resist from blowing a bunch of money in the off-season. moving varejao and then letting an off-season go by without capitalizing on the cap room is too big a step for grant to take, imo. i think it would be a smart step long-term and would very much prefer it, but that is probably where the fans perspective comes into play. grant wouldn't be able to sell doing both to gilbert or the fans (and maybe not even himself....).

  13. #385
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    Default Re: To Tank or not to Tank, that is the question

    How many top picks do we need, exactly? By next June we will have had at least three top 4 picks (maybe four), at least four top 10 picks, plus the 17th pick in last year's draft and a pick in the 20s range next year and a boatload of high second round picks PLUS all the cap room any NBA team could ever hope for (for trades or free agents) . . . . when does it end? 2014? 2015? 2020? 2050? I'm sure I'm not the only one who's getting a bit tired of the "just wait a while longer" schtick. (And, no, I'm not some reactionary fan. I was a Cleveland Pipers fan before the Cavaliers were even a glimmer in the NBA's eyes.)

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  15. #386
    Rising Star jlegg21's Avatar
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    Default Re: To Tank or not to Tank, that is the question

    Quote Originally Posted by daddywags View Post
    How many top picks do we need, exactly? By next June we will have had at least three top 4 picks (maybe four), at least four top 10 picks, plus the 17th pick in last year's draft and a pick in the 20s range next year and a boatload of high second round picks PLUS all the cap room any NBA team could ever hope for (for trades or free agents) . . . . when does it end? 2014? 2015? 2020? 2050? I'm sure I'm not the only one who's getting a bit tired of the "just wait a while longer" schtick. (And, no, I'm not some reactionary fan. I was a Cleveland Pipers fan before the Cavaliers were even a glimmer in the NBA's eyes.)
    As many as it takes to build this thing. It ends when this team is legitimately ready to contend. That's why so much attention is paid to the threads with "Kyrie Irving, Dion Waiters, Tristan Thompson, Tyler Zeller and 2013 Draft" in their names.

  16. #387
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    Default Re: To Tank or not to Tank, that is the question

    Quote Originally Posted by jlegg21 View Post
    As many as it takes to build this thing. It ends when this team is legitimately ready to contend. That's why so much attention is paid to the threads with "Kyrie Irving, Dion Waiters, Tristan Thompson, Tyler Zeller and 2013 Draft" in their names.
    Yah, I know. I just get tired of the "next year is the last tank year" stuff over and over and over again. And it's a little unsettling to read now that two (or more) tank years are necessary to do the thing properly. Last year it seemed like most folks thought one, or maybe two, more tanks would be needed. Now (if you extrapolate back to last year) it's two or maybe three - does it ever end? (And, yes, I know it ends when we have an NBA championship trophy in Cleveland. But that doesn't tell me what year you think that should be.)

  17. #388
    Veteran Triumph36's Avatar
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    Default Re: To Tank or not to Tank, that is the question

    Quote Originally Posted by daddywags View Post
    Yah, I know. I just get tired of the "next year is the last tank year" stuff over and over and over again. And it's a little unsettling to read now that two (or more) tank years are necessary to do the thing properly. Last year it seemed like most folks thought one, or maybe two, more tanks would be needed. Now (if you extrapolate back to last year) it's two or maybe three - does it ever end? (And, yes, I know it ends when we have an NBA championship trophy in Cleveland. But that doesn't tell me what year you think that should be.)
    right, but sometimes "shit happens"

    - teams miss on picks (cough)
    - drafts are weaker than others (this year?) so a top 5 or whatever pick isn't as good
    - certain players that should be moved instead impede the need to draft as high as possible

    it goes on and on....

    basically, it's hard to say it will take X number of years because there are just so many variables (some the team can control....some not).

    dating back to the 2011 draft, they could've taken a different path. draft jonas, trade varejao immediately, whatever the decisions may be. and that path might've led them to contention in fewer years than the path they chose. or maybe they'd never contend.

    so much changes. if someone says they will be legitimate contenders in say, 3 years, that could change if the 2013 draft is too weak or they blow the pick. so it's hard to get set on contending in a certain # of years.
    Last edited by Triumph36; 12-07-2012 at 08:37 PM.

  18. #389
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    Smile Re: To Tank or not to Tank, that is the question

    Quote Originally Posted by Triumph36 View Post
    right, but sometimes "shit happens"

    - teams miss on picks (cough)
    - drafts are weaker than others (this year?) so a top 5 or whatever pick isn't as good
    - certain players that should be moved instead impede the need to draft as high as possible

    it goes on and on....

    basically, it's hard to say it will take X number of years because there are just so many variables (some the team can control....some not).
    All true; and I guess I'm feeling a little fatalistic tonight but still we should, as fans, have an idea in mind that "two yeras from now" or "four years from now" or "next year" we should be contending, shouldn't we? So what is it? For instance, when LBJ left, I figured it would take three or four years for us to become a serious contending team again (if things went well). We're now in year three and next year is year four but contending seems years and years away (if things go well). I can live with it if somebody tells me "five more crappy seasons and we're all set." I won't understand why, exactly, but I can live with it. What I don't especially care for is people saying "just two more crappy years" EVERY year. (Not pointing a finger at anybody in particular, just the general vibe I get is all.)

  19. #390
    Rising Star jlegg21's Avatar
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    Default Re: To Tank or not to Tank, that is the question

    Quote Originally Posted by daddywags View Post
    Yah, I know. I just get tired of the "next year is the last tank year" stuff over and over and over again. And it's a little unsettling to read now that two (or more) tank years are necessary to do the thing properly. Last year it seemed like most folks thought one, or maybe two, more tanks would be needed. Now (if you extrapolate back to last year) it's two or maybe three - does it ever end? (And, yes, I know it ends when we have an NBA championship trophy in Cleveland. But that doesn't tell me what year you think that should be.)
    The only way we could fast forward from this current rebuild directly back to contending would be the off chance that a certain someone came back here as a FA in 2014. Not impossible, but I'm not holding my breath either. Otherwise, your guess is as good as mine.

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