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  1. #151
    Rising Star bcort's Avatar
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    Default Re: The fiscal cliff

    Quote Originally Posted by I.K.W.T View Post
    I've been reading this thread for a long time, and dare i say it, your anger seems, misdirected? As a democrat, how am i to work with a Republican like you to fix this if you're so angry? I wouldn't want to. That's the problem here, we can't work together if your anger is so heated and venomous.

    There are Republicans in Congress who act and think just like you in regards to Obama, AND THEN YOU GUYS WANT HIM TO WORK WITH YOU TO COMPROMISE? REALLY? How the fuck does that work? Put differences aside, don't say this bullshit, and work together as reasonable human beings.

    I know what hyperinflation is, and i don't see it coming. Sorry i don't. Grant it, we've been under a long period of stagflation for a few years now, but i think that will eventually ease. Just relax a little bit, everyone is in this together, it'll get better eventually you just have to be patient. More patient.
    How about addressing the actual concerns? We just raised taxes on the wealthy, yet it doesn't even put a dent in the problem at hand.

    Why do Reps think the president is a moron? Because the president either believes taxes will do something significant or he's too much of a pussy to actually make real progress with the deficit.

    It's easy for Reps when the have logic on their side.

    We run over a trillion dollar deficit each year.
    Passing this bill knocks off $60B-$62B off of the deficit.


    See where we're going with that? Guess what, we'll still have a deficit nearing a trillion dollars.


    Also, not that I believe they'll turn the bill down, but it still has to pass the House. You know, the guys that got voted in because they ran on cutting spending. Hope they try to please their party, too.
    Last edited by bcort; 01-01-2013 at 12:46 PM.

  2. #152
    Season Ticket Holder I.K.W.T's Avatar
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    Default Re: The fiscal cliff

    Quote Originally Posted by BigMar Lion View Post
    There is no easy solution. The only thing that is going to help is open and honest discussion amongst extremely bright individuals.

    Media may or may not be an appropriate means....I have serious doubts about this. There are so many people that you almost need to use some form of mass media to reach them.
    It has to start with the leaders of both parties, sitting down, and using the media to its advantage. But how many people will listen? Many people's view on politicians are already negative, the process is doomed before it starts.

    People are starting not to trust the people who represent them, its almost like politicians are automatically given a negative label. However, there are some very good leaders out there, who don't get the recognition or support from their party because they have a more rational approach. It's tough.

    Does there need to be an overhaul? Yes. Does anyone know what to do to replace it, or when the best time is? No. So we are stuck with what we have.

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  4. #153
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    Default Re: The fiscal cliff

    This above all: to thine own self be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any man.

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  6. #154
    formerly LJ4MVP KI4MVP's Avatar
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    Default Re: The fiscal cliff

    they passed the part they could agree on and delayed the spending cuts by 2 months. how is that the end of the world. Tax cuts on 99.2% of americans that were always supposed to be temporary were made permanent. 0.8% of americans get a tax increase. I seriously doubt that's going to have any negative impact on the economy.

    a vote of 89-8 shows they did a great job of finding a bipartisan compromise, something that this congress has struggled to do over anything. One can only hope that this can carry over to finding a solution to the budget cuts.

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  8. #155
    Subliminal Ignatius's Avatar
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    Default Re: The fiscal cliff

    I beginning to wonder if trying to, literally, brainwash people into voting for someone outside of the major political parties is worth a shot.

    Go completely against the established order. In theory, no one can be hurt from this decision (aside from the .1%). The domino effect, or rather, a reverse domino effect could take place. The strongest and most intelligent people could theoretically rise to the top in a time where the US dollar may not have real value. Knowledge is the real power here.

    Just an idea.

    I don't think it's a coincidence that we've been seeing other parties starting to expand in the political realm. Whether or not this is due to corruption breeding more corruption or an attempt at defeating corruption...I have no idea.
    Last edited by Ignatius; 01-01-2013 at 01:11 PM.
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  9. #156
    formerly LJ4MVP KI4MVP's Avatar
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    Default Re: The fiscal cliff

    Quote Originally Posted by bcort View Post
    How about addressing the actual concerns? We just raised taxes on the wealthy, yet it doesn't even put a dent in the problem at hand.

    Why do Reps think the president is a moron? Because the president either believes taxes will do something significant or he's too much of a pussy to actually make real progress with the deficit.

    It's easy for Reps when the have logic on their side.

    We run over a trillion dollar deficit each year.
    Passing this bill knocks off $60B-$62B off of the deficit.


    See where we're going with that? Guess what, we'll still have a deficit nearing a trillion dollars.


    Also, not that I believe they'll turn the bill down, but it still has to pass the House. You know, the guys that got voted in because they ran on cutting spending. Hope they try to please their party, too.
    That's $62 billion that doesn't have to be cut, and would have been over $100 billion had they stuck with the $250k threshold. Another few hundred billion of spending goes away because of the end of the wars. The spending cuts have been delayed by 2 months, not eliminated. the temporary 2% payroll tax deduction just ended which brings in over $100 billion. Add it all up and that's a pretty substantial dent on the deficit.

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  11. #157
    BANNED Maximus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The fiscal cliff

    $1 Trillion Obamacare Tax Hike Hitting on Jan. 1

    On January 1, regardless of the outcome of fiscal cliff negotiations, Americans will be hit with a $1 trillion Obamacare tax hike.


    Obamacare contains twenty new or higher taxes. Five of the taxes hit for the first time on January 1. In total, Americans face a net $1 trillion tax hike for the years 2013-2022, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

    The five major Obamacare taxes taking effect on January 1 are as follows:

    The Obamacare Medical Device Tax: Medical device manufacturers employ 409,000 people in 12,000 plants across the country. Obamacare imposes a new 2.3 percent excise tax on gross sales – even if the company does not earn a profit in a given year. In addition to killing small business jobs and impacting research and development budgets, this will increase the cost of your health care – making everything from pacemakers to artificial hips more expensive.

    The Obamacare Flex Account Tax: The 30-35 million Americans who use a pre-tax Flexible Spending Account (FSA) at work to pay for their family’s basic medical needs will face a new government cap of $2500. This will squeeze $13 billion of tax money from Americans over the next ten years. (Currently, the accounts are unlimited under federal law, though employers are allowed to set a cap.)

    There is one group of FSA owners for whom this new cap will be particularly cruel and onerous: parents of special needs children. There are several million families with special needs children in the United States, and many of them use FSAs to pay for special needs education. Tuition rates at one leading school that teaches special needs children in Washington, D.C. (National Child Research Center) can easily exceed $14,000 per year. Under tax rules, FSA dollars can be used to pay for this type of special needs education. This Obamacare tax provision will limit the options available to these families.

    The Obamacare Surtax on Investment Income: This is a new, 3.8 percentage point surtax on investment income earned in households making at least $250,000 ($200,000 single).

    The table above also incorporates the scheduled hike in the capital gains rate from 15 to 20 percent, and the scheduled hike in dividends rate from 15 to 39.6 percent.

    The Obamacare “Haircut” for Medical Itemized Deductions: Currently, those Americans facing high medical expenses are allowed a deduction to the extent that those expenses exceed 7.5 percent of adjusted gross income (AGI). This tax increase imposes a threshold of 10 percent of AGI. By limiting this deduction, Obamacare widens the net of taxable income for the sickest Americans. This tax provision will most harm near retirees and those with modest incomes but high medical bills.

    The Obamacare Medicare Payroll Tax Hike: The Medicare payroll tax is currently 2.9 percent on all wages and self-employment profits. Under this tax hike, wages and profits exceeding $200,000 ($250,000 in the case of married couples) will face a 3.8 percent rate instead. This is a direct marginal income tax hike on small business owners, who are liable for self-employment tax in most cases.

    Follow the author on Twitter: @JohnKartch


    Posted by John Kartch on Friday, December 28, 2012 5:10 PM EST

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  13. #158
    formerly LJ4MVP KI4MVP's Avatar
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    Default Re: The fiscal cliff

    so the house republicans excluded themselves from participating in the negotiations and said they would bring what the senate passed for a vote, they also have enough votes to pass the bill the senate passed. But rather than vote on the senate bill, they apparently plan to amend it. The right time to have this discussion is when the bill was being negotiated, not afterwards when it has enough votes to pass as is.

  14. #159
    formerly LJ4MVP KI4MVP's Avatar
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    Default Re: The fiscal cliff

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus View Post
    $1 Trillion Obamacare Tax Hike Hitting on Jan. 1

    clip

    The table above also incorporates the scheduled hike in the capital gains rate from 15 to 20 percent, and the scheduled hike in dividends rate from 15 to 39.6 percent.
    why is this included in a discussion of Obamacare? Aren't these expiring tax cuts that are totally unrelated to Obamacare?

    Obamacare ensures all americans can afford health insurance and has a net $109 billion budget surplus over 10 years.

  15. #160
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    Default Re: The fiscal cliff

    Quote Originally Posted by KI4MVP View Post
    so the house republicans excluded themselves from participating in the negotiations and said they would bring what the senate passed for a vote, they also have enough votes to pass the bill the senate passed. But rather than vote on the senate bill, they apparently plan to amend it. The right time to have this discussion is when the bill was being negotiated, not afterwards when it has enough votes to pass as is.
    According to you. Letting two people hammer out a plan (Biden & McConnell) is the only way that anything even got done. You really think that adding more voices to the discussion would have helped anything? At least now the House has a bill in front of them to vote on or amend. That's a lot better than having nothing.
    The most valuable skill in basketball is not the ability to convert difficult shots, but create easy ones.

  16. #161
    Fighting the good fight! gourimoko's Avatar
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    Default Re: The fiscal cliff

    I am in agreement with those that say the fiscal cliff deal on the table does little, if anything at all, as it does not address the chief concern which is the perpetual increase in the debt by running annual deficits. We need to find an approach to balance the budget within the next 10 years. This agreement simply tricks the public into thinking progress has been made, and not to agree with Lindsay Graham, but it truly is a "hollow" political victory.

    Both sides need to think outside of the box and embrace radical reforms. Republicans need to understand we will need to raise taxes of all forms, if only temporarily, to pay down the debt. Democrats need to craft a program that would allow for the privatization of Medicare/Medicaid and alleviate the burden from the federal government. That would solve much of the deficit problem in itself.

    The program simply isn't sustainable with the current revenue model, so change the program or hike up revenue. And since hiking up revenue may substantially and adversely effect the economic recovery, and since the public is strongly opposed to an Medicare cuts (austerity), then we should look at creative alternatives like privatization.

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  18. #162
    All for one RonG's Avatar
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    Default Re: The fiscal cliff

    Quote Originally Posted by gourimoko View Post
    I am in agreement with those that say the fiscal cliff deal on the table does little, if anything at all, as it does not address the chief concern which is the perpetual increase in the debt by running annual deficits. We need to find an approach to balance the budget within the next 10 years. This agreement simply tricks the public into thinking progress has been made, and not to agree with Lindsay Graham, but it truly is a "hollow" political victory.

    Both sides need to think outside of the box and embrace radical reforms. Republicans need to understand we will need to raise taxes of all forms, if only temporarily, to pay down the debt. Democrats need to craft a program that would allow for the privatization of Medicare/Medicaid and alleviate the burden from the federal government. That would solve much of the deficit problem in itself.

    The program simply isn't sustainable with the current revenue model, so change the program or hike up revenue. And since hiking up revenue may substantially and adversely effect the economic recovery, and since the public is strongly opposed to an Medicare cuts (austerity), then we should look at creative alternatives like privatization.

    I don't mind a tax increase or increases...if they make actual cuts to the spending as well but the death tax really pisses me off. It is a double tax and its fucking absurd. It literally benefits no one if they raise taxes with out curbing spending.

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  20. #163
    All for one RonG's Avatar
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    Default Re: The fiscal cliff

    Quote Originally Posted by KI4MVP View Post
    why is this included in a discussion of Obamacare? Aren't these expiring tax cuts that are totally unrelated to Obamacare?

    Obamacare ensures all Americans can afford health insurance and has a net $109 billion budget surplus over 10 years.
    It is another tax increase effective today, i think it is relevant. Americans is capitalized I fixed that for you.

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  22. #164
    Slice & Dice SuperSurge's Avatar
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    Default Re: The fiscal cliff

    Who knew the Amish had it right all along?

    That's my plan when the shit really hits the fan. I'm going Tim Allen For Richer Or Poorer on this shit...

  23. #165
    Season Ticket Holder I.K.W.T's Avatar
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    Default Re: The fiscal cliff

    Vote in the House at 9.

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