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  1. #106
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    Default Re: Does Utah hold the key to Cleveland's future?

    Thought this was an interesting article to a topic we'd recently discussed

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/jazz/55...tml.csp?page=1

    There are whispers about Paul Millsap.

    That heís confused

    That heís unhappy with his role.

    That heís not getting enough playing time.

    That heís not as effective as he once was.

    And the whispers, some of them, are true.

    "Iím human," he said after Wednesday nightís win over Orlando, a game during which he scored more than 20 points for the first time in forever. "Of course frustration is there. Youíre going to get frustrated at times. But itís what you do after that. My teammates give me confidence. Iíve just got to continue to stay positive and stay with it and hope it turns around."

    A few things about Millsap that wouldnít surprise anyone who has paid attention over his seven seasons here:

    ē The man is going to sweat through his work.

    ē The man is not going to cry and pout.

    All over the map
    Paul Millsapís last 10 games, during which heís shot 40 percent:

    Opponent Points Rebounds

    Washington 6 10

    Houston 10 8

    Sacramento 10 1

    Sacramento 13 8

    Denver 5 5

    New Orleans 16 8

    Oklahoma City 13 6

    Houston 12 11

    Clippers 13 8

    Orlando 22 4

    man is a grown man.

    "Paulís fine," said Marvin Williams. "Heís the ultimate pro. He shows up when his team needs him. After three losses, our team needed him tonight."

    In the win over the Magic, Millsap redirected a couple of negative trends. He played heavy minutes, getting just short of 39. And he was efficient in his scoring, making eight of 14 shots.

    "I felt comfortable out there," he said. "When youíre comfortable, youíre confident. As long as Iím comfortable and confident, things are going to go my way."

    But things havenít completely gone Millsapís way over stretches. His role has switched from power forward, his preferred spot, to small forward and back. His scoring has dropped from a 17.3 average two years ago to 14.3. His shooting percentage, which over his career sits at 52 percent, is at 46. In the past 10 games, itís at 40 percent. His minutes have dropped, from more than 34 a game two seasons ago to 31 now. He never left the bench in the fourth quarter of a couple of recent games. And the major reason heís suddenly getting more opportunity is because Derrick Favors is hurt.

    "You go in the game when your name is called," he said. "You go out the game when your name is called."

    Itís more complicated than just that, especially for a veteran player in a contract year, and Millsap came clean when he was pressed further about wanting more time.

    "What competitor doesnít?" he said. "But it doesnít happen like that all the time. You have to be patient and see what happens."

    This is where we read between the lines and listen to a few private whispers. Millsap has been uncertain about his role and he knows Favors is coming for his job. Thatís exacted a toll.

    As Millsap said, heís only human.

    He said heís put his contract status out of his mind: "I havenít thought about it. That hasnít been the reason for anything."

    You have to wonder.

    A problem for the Jazz, and for Millsap, is the traffic in the low post. Al Jefferson is there, Millsap is there, Favors is there, Enes Kanter is there. Favors is the best defender of the bunch. And defense is what the Jazz need to transform from a peripheral playoff team to a certain one. Millsap is undersized and everybody knows that. He racks up steals, but he also fouls, typically finishing among NBA leaders in most fouls committed. If he defends power forwards, heís overwhelmed. Against small forwards, heís not quick enough.

    And at the offensive end, it becomes a matter of spacing, which is the on-ramp to efficient offense. Wednesday, Millsap got out in transition and benefited from easy baskets, which boosted him toward his production.

    "The basketball was moving, swinging around," he said. "We got some good looks. I didnít take too many jump shots."

    A bigger reason Millsap flourished was because Favors didnít play. And when Favors plays, the Jazz are better. Thatís a conundrum that has put the team in a blender at times and adversely affected You-Know-Who.

    Still, Millsap said: "My main thing is the team, that weíre winning. Be patient and things eventually will turn around for you."

    Thatís what you would expect Paul Millsap to say, and maybe even believe. Heís a proís pro. A manís man. But this situation has tested him.

    "People look at me," he said. "Iíve got to continue to be a leader, a leader by example. I still love playing this game. When I get out there, I try laying everything on the line. Iím not thinking about anything but winning the basketball game. For me, competing is an amazing feeling. As long as Iím doing that, Iím fine."
    I dunno. Agree with Smooth that it might be hard for us to put TT in a lesser role considering the stage we're at as a franchise (and the fact that we'd be putting ourselves into a similar spot as Utah). Anybody watched Millsap this year?

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  3. #107
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    Default Re: Does Utah hold the key to Cleveland's future?

    From Marc Spears:

    Paul Millsap: Utah Jazz, 27, PF

    Contract status: Making $8.6 million in final contract year.

    Buzz: The Utah Jazz are in the playoff hunt and have two starting big men in the last years of their deals in Millsap and Al Jefferson. Utah also has two talented young big men in Derrick Favors and Enes Kanter. Any big move by new general manager Dennis Lindsey, however, could disrupt Utah's playoff hopes.

    "I would think they would more likely trade Millsap over Jefferson because he is going to be harder to keep," one GM said. "He's made less money than Jefferson and he will go to the highest bidder."

    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--nb...000418190.html
    Assuming you try to work something out upfront to keep him next year, I'm all in on trying to get Millsap in Cleveland... Let me develop chemistry this team, get used to the system and have some time with this team...

    I also like that it allows the Cavs to go C or SF in the draft and not worry about the PF position..

    How good does a Varejao-Millsap-Muhammad-Waiters-Irving lineup sound?

    Unforunately, I don't see Grant making a move for a PF and putting Thompson on the bench... I think he's too stubborn and his ego is too big to admit that Thompson is better off coming off the bench and the Cavs are better off search for a legit player at PF...

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  5. #108
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    Default Re: Does Utah hold the key to Cleveland's future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Smooth View Post
    From Marc Spears:



    Assuming you try to work something out upfront to keep him next year, I'm all in on trying to get Millsap in Cleveland... Let me develop chemistry this team, get used to the system and have some time with this team...

    I also like that it allows the Cavs to go C or SF in the draft and not worry about the PF position..

    How good does a Varejao-Millsap-Muhammad-Waiters-Irving lineup sound?

    Unforunately, I don't see Grant making a move for a PF and putting Thompson on the bench... I think he's too stubborn and his ego is too big to admit that Thompson is better off coming off the bench and the Cavs are better off search for a legit player at PF...
    I don't know where you're getting the idea that Grant has his ego playing into his decisions, but I've yet to see it.

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    Default Re: Does Utah hold the key to Cleveland's future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Smooth View Post

    How good does a Varejao-Millsap-Muhammad-Waiters-Irving lineup sound?
    Bench: Pargo-Boobie-Gee-Thompson-Zeller

    Assuming progession from the young guns, that's a bona fide playoff team right there! - which is why it'll never happen.

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    Default Re: Does Utah hold the key to Cleveland's future?


    How good does a Varejao-Millsap-Muhammad-Waiters-Irving lineup sound?
    Maybe a three seed. Not enough defense or size.

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    Default Re: Does Utah hold the key to Cleveland's future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Smooth View Post
    From Marc Spears:



    Assuming you try to work something out upfront to keep him next year, I'm all in on trying to get Millsap in Cleveland... Let me develop chemistry this team, get used to the system and have some time with this team...

    I also like that it allows the Cavs to go C or SF in the draft and not worry about the PF position..

    How good does a Varejao-Millsap-Muhammad-Waiters-Irving lineup sound?

    Unforunately, I don't see Grant making a move for a PF and putting Thompson on the bench... I think he's too stubborn and his ego is too big to admit that Thompson is better off coming off the bench and the Cavs are better off search for a legit player at PF...
    like a silly, pie-in-the-sky dream that shouldn't be taken seriously?

    rewind a year - how good does a duo of irving and davis sound? really good? and how did that turn out?

    also, the top of the draft isn't exactly loaded with 4s in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by RMsDanielGibson View Post
    I don't know where you're getting the idea that Grant has his ego playing into his decisions, but I've yet to see it.
    eh

    the selections of thompson and waiters when most had them projected to go a decent amount of picks lower does sorta suggest he thinks he's smarter than everyone else. obviously confidence in your abilities is important as a gm, and i'm not necessarily saying he was wrong.....but i'm just saying. if that makes any sense, haha.

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    Default Re: Does Utah hold the key to Cleveland's future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Triumph36 View Post
    like a silly, pie-in-the-sky dream that shouldn't be taken seriously?

    rewind a year - how good does a duo of irving and davis sound? really good? and how did that turn out?

    also, the top of the draft isn't exactly loaded with 4s in the first place.

    eh

    the selections of thompson and waiters when most had them projected to go a decent amount of picks lower does sorta suggest he thinks he's smarter than everyone else. obviously confidence in your abilities is important as a gm, and i'm not necessarily saying he was wrong.....but i'm just saying. if that makes any sense, haha.
    Being confident and having an ego are two different things. I am sure that Grant was not sitting there, thinking "haha, just wait until I reach for these two guys and end up being right when no one else saw what I see in these players!" I'm sure that he was just looking for the best player at each of those positions.

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    Default Re: Does Utah hold the key to Cleveland's future?

    Do not want.

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  13. #114
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    Default Re: Does Utah hold the key to Cleveland's future?

    How about the dream scenario for me?

    Cavs Get:
    Enes Kanter
    Derrick Favors

    Utah Gets:
    Anderson Varejao
    TT
    (Miami or Sac town pick?)

    I doubt the Jazz would ever do it since they would be giving up two young guys, but they'd get a young PF in return and a vet PF/C with tons of playoff experience and who happens to be playing like an all-star. AV is also a great compliment to both Milsap and Jefferson and would allow both of them to play their more natural PF position. I'd be glad to throw in one of our many future 1sts if need, as long as it isn't on of our own. Again, not likely to see something like this come up, but it would certainlty be the key to our future. Then you go all out for Shabazz or Poythress and smash on people.

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    Default Re: Does Utah hold the key to Cleveland's future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_The_Cat View Post
    How about the dream scenario for me?

    Cavs Get:
    Enes Kanter
    Derrick Favors

    Utah Gets:
    Anderson Varejao
    TT
    (Miami or Sac town pick?)

    I doubt the Jazz would ever do it since they would be giving up two young guys, but they'd get a young PF in return and a vet PF/C with tons of playoff experience and who happens to be playing like an all-star. AV is also a great compliment to both Milsap and Jefferson and would allow both of them to play their more natural PF position. I'd be glad to throw in one of our many future 1sts if need, as long as it isn't on of our own. Again, not likely to see something like this come up, but it would certainlty be the key to our future. Then you go all out for Shabazz or Poythress and smash on people.
    Take out the pick and TT and you have a deal. Andy is more valuable than that.

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    Default Re: Does Utah hold the key to Cleveland's future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_The_Cat View Post
    How about the dream scenario for me?

    Cavs Get:
    Enes Kanter
    Derrick Favors

    Utah Gets:
    Anderson Varejao
    TT
    (Miami or Sac town pick?)

    I doubt the Jazz would ever do it since they would be giving up two young guys, but they'd get a young PF in return and a vet PF/C with tons of playoff experience and who happens to be playing like an all-star. AV is also a great compliment to both Milsap and Jefferson and would allow both of them to play their more natural PF position. I'd be glad to throw in one of our many future 1sts if need, as long as it isn't on of our own. Again, not likely to see something like this come up, but it would certainlty be the key to our future. Then you go all out for Shabazz or Poythress and smash on people.
    I'm not sure where you're getting that PF is Al Jefferson's natural position, that couldn't be any further from the truth.

    But you're right when you say that the Jazz wouldn't entertain that offer, let alone RM's whose doesn't even include Andy (lol).

  16. #117
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    Default Re: Does Utah hold the key to Cleveland's future?

    Quote Originally Posted by RMsDanielGibson View Post
    Being confident and having an ego are two different things. I am sure that Grant was not sitting there, thinking "haha, just wait until I reach for these two guys and end up being right when no one else saw what I see in these players!" I'm sure that he was just looking for the best player at each of those positions.
    i didn't mean to suggest they are the same.

    i was noting that all gm's are confident, but those selections can certainly suggest he is more confident/arrogant/thinks he's smarter than everyone else.

    i'm not sure what you mean by position. nba position or draft position? i'd think it's the latter (if it's the former, he's an idiot). that doesn't exactly disprove what i said. he thinks he sees value in guys that noone else really did, at the time. if he is making such significant decisions based on that, then yes, i would say he thinks he's smarter than everyone else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_The_Cat View Post
    How about the dream scenario for me?

    Cavs Get:
    Enes Kanter
    Derrick Favors

    Utah Gets:
    Anderson Varejao
    TT
    (Miami or Sac town pick?)

    I doubt the Jazz would ever do it since they would be giving up two young guys, but they'd get a young PF in return and a vet PF/C with tons of playoff experience and who happens to be playing like an all-star. AV is also a great compliment to both Milsap and Jefferson and would allow both of them to play their more natural PF position. I'd be glad to throw in one of our many future 1sts if need, as long as it isn't on of our own. Again, not likely to see something like this come up, but it would certainlty be the key to our future. Then you go all out for Shabazz or Poythress and smash on people.
    whether they acknowledge it or not (at the moment, it's seemingly the latter), the jazz are rebuilding and competing for the future. if they were going to give up their best and second-third best prospects for a 30yo, i think someone would step in and tell them they're idiots and stop the deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by RMsDanielGibson View Post
    Take out the pick and TT and you have a deal. Andy is more valuable than that.
    lol

    ok now i know you're trolling.

  17. #118
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    Default Re: Does Utah hold the key to Cleveland's future?

    Quote Originally Posted by Triumph36 View Post
    i didn't mean to suggest they are the same.

    i was noting that all gm's are confident, but those selections can certainly suggest he is more confident/arrogant/thinks he's smarter than everyone else.

    i'm not sure what you mean by position. nba position or draft position? i'd think it's the latter (if it's the former, he's an idiot). that doesn't exactly disprove what i said. he thinks he sees value in guys that noone else really did, at the time. if he is making such significant decisions based on that, then yes, i would say he thinks he's smarter than everyone else.

    whether they acknowledge it or not (at the moment, it's seemingly the latter), the jazz are rebuilding and competing for the future. if they were going to give up their best and second-third best prospects for a 30yo, i think someone would step in and tell them they're idiots and stop the deal.

    lol

    ok now i know you're trolling.
    Really? A guy who's averaging 15/15/3, plays top-5 defense in the league, is very consistent, is a leader on the court, and is about to become an all-star (or it's a "farce" if he doesn't) for two guys who have yet to do much of anything in the league, let alone be proven to do anything is a lopsided trade in Utah's favor? TT's already more valuable than Kanter, but I'll be gracious and say that they're even in value. That leaves the value of Andy and the Sac pick compared to Favors. Again, Favors has done nothing great as of yet, and he's in his third season now. Andy's clearly of more trade value right now than Favors, so just to break even, I'd say that Kanter would have to be thrown in, and I'd think that the Cavs FO would agree. And then we haven't even gotten to the Sac 1st, which is going to almost guaranteed to be in the 11-14 range. I'd personally value that pick as much as Kanter based on what he's shown so far despite the fact that he's the 3rd pick. It'd be like we're giving Utah TT and a lottery pick for free. I'd say you're closer to trolling than I am.

    Also, being smarter doesn't mean one thinks that they are smarter. There is such a thing as humility, and I happen to think that Grant has that. He's not going to go with what everyone thinks he should go with because it might look arrogant. And yes, I was referring to draft position.
    Last edited by Free Agency God; 12-16-2012 at 12:19 PM.

  18. #119
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    Default Re: Does Utah hold the key to Cleveland's future?

    Quote Originally Posted by RMsDanielGibson View Post
    Really? A guy who's averaging 15/15, plays top-5 defense in the league, is very consistent, is a leader on the court, and is about to become an all-star (or it's a "farce" if he doesn't) for two guys who have yet to do much of anything in the league, let alone be proven to do anything is a lopsided trade in Utah's favor? TT's already more valuable than Kanter, but I'll be gracious and say that they're even in value. That leaves the value of Andy and the Sac pick compared to Favors. Again, Favors has done nothing great as of yet, and he's in his third season now. Andy's clearly of more trade value right now than Favors, so just to break even, I'd say that Kanter would have to be thrown in, and I'd think that the Cavs FO would agree. And then we haven't even gotten to the Sac 1st, which is going to almost guaranteed to be in the 11-14 range. I'd personally value that pick as much as Kanter based on what he's shown so far despite the fact that he's the 3rd pick. It'd be like we're giving Utah TT and a lottery pick for free. I'd say you're closer to trolling than I am.

    Also, being smarter doesn't mean one thinks that they are smarter. There is such a thing as humility, and I happen to think that Grant has that. He's not going to go with what everyone thinks he should go with because it might look arrogant. And yes, I was referring to draft position.
    Or you could compare the players by position and say that there is no way in hell TT is more valuable than Favors. Favors is gonna be a beast in this league, he just doesn't get a lot of run with Utah, or at least not nearly as much as TT gets here. He would be a huge piece on this team. Kanter gets even less time. And that SAC pick seems like it may never come about.

    Fact is, in the real world, the Cavs will probably never get equal value for Andy. But, a trade like that is all about projecting young talent. Favors has a legit shot at becoming an all-star. Not sure anyone would say that about TT. I highly doubt TT has a whole lot of value around the NBA right now.

    No way in the world UTA even considers this trade without the SAC pick...and they probably hang up within the first 2 minutes with it, anyways.

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  20. #120
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    Default Re: Does Utah hold the key to Cleveland's future?

    Quote Originally Posted by RMsDanielGibson View Post
    Really? A guy who's averaging 15/15/3, plays top-5 defense in the league, is very consistent, is a leader on the court, and is about to become an all-star (or it's a "farce" if he doesn't) for two guys who have yet to do much of anything in the league, let alone be proven to do anything is a lopsided trade in Utah's favor? TT's already more valuable than Kanter, but I'll be gracious and say that they're even in value. That leaves the value of Andy and the Sac pick compared to Favors. Again, Favors has done nothing great as of yet, and he's in his third season now. Andy's clearly of more trade value right now than Favors, so just to break even, I'd say that Kanter would have to be thrown in, and I'd think that the Cavs FO would agree. And then we haven't even gotten to the Sac 1st, which is going to almost guaranteed to be in the 11-14 range. I'd personally value that pick as much as Kanter based on what he's shown so far despite the fact that he's the 3rd pick. It'd be like we're giving Utah TT and a lottery pick for free. I'd say you're closer to trolling than I am.

    Also, being smarter doesn't mean one thinks that they are smarter. There is such a thing as humility, and I happen to think that Grant has that. He's not going to go with what everyone thinks he should go with because it might look arrogant. And yes, I was referring to draft position.
    - Varejao isn't a top 5 defender in the league
    - Favors is arguably the most valuable young big in the league who has yet to "break out" (so excluding love, etc)
    - Thompson is not worth more than Kanter in ANY universe
    - Jazz are rebuilding, thus making Varejao absolutely useless

    If Grant called KOC and proposed that trade, he would get laughed off the phone and the league would think he's a clown. And rightfully so.

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