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  1. #46
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    Default Re: This survey cannot be serious

    Quote Originally Posted by cafemerald View Post
    Well we quite clearly haven't been visited by aliens in the recent past...... so....
    I'm just not sure how you can definitively say that.

  2. #47
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    Default Re: This survey cannot be serious

    Quote Originally Posted by KI4MVP View Post
    I'm just not sure how you can definitively say that.
    The same way we can definitively say a lot of things; there is no evidence whatsoever supporting it. That doesn't mean its not true, but it does mean its highly unlikely. Bigfoot would be another example where its quite clear "he" doesn't exist because there is 0 evidence, but we cannot formally say that there is 0 chance of him existing.

    Also the issue isn't so much whether aliens could find earth/us, its what they would do when they did. How do you travel thousands/millions of light years without taking millions/billions of years? It may be possible, but it also may not be. Both of those are legitimate possibilities.

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  4. #48
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    Default Re: This survey cannot be serious

    Quote Originally Posted by supergoat52 View Post
    The same way we can definitively say a lot of things; there is no evidence whatsoever supporting it. That doesn't mean its not true, but it does mean its highly unlikely. Bigfoot would be another example where its quite clear "he" doesn't exist because there is 0 evidence, but we cannot formally say that there is 0 chance of him existing.

    Also the issue isn't so much whether aliens could find earth/us, its what they would do when they did. How do you travel thousands/millions of light years without taking millions/billions of years? It may be possible, but it also may not be. Both of those are legitimate possibilities.
    Dude, Bigfoot exists... and that monkey man loves oranges.

    This one time, I left an orange in the woods.... I came back... and it was gone! I know it was Bigfoot, because Bigfoot loves him some oranges.

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  6. #49
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    Default Re: This survey cannot be serious

    Quote Originally Posted by cafemerald View Post
    Dude, Bigfoot exists... and that monkey man loves oranges.

    This one time, I left an orange in the woods.... I came back... and it was gone! I know it was Bigfoot, because Bigfoot loves him some oranges.
    Dude! Set up a camcorder circa 1995 in your woods next to the orange. Be sure to set it up about 200 feet away though, we don't need to see him up close or anything, just as long as he looks over his shoulder.

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  8. #50
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    Default Re: This survey cannot be serious

    I assume this has to have been done before, but....have meteors ever shown any signs of past life on them? I believe that some day in the next 20-30 years we discover some kind of fossil on another planet or evidence of bacteria.
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  10. #51
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    Default Re: This survey cannot be serious

    Quote Originally Posted by IO_OGIJ View Post
    I assume this has to have been done before, but....have meteors ever shown any signs of past life on them? I believe that some day in the next 20-30 years we discover some kind of fossil on another planet or evidence of bacteria.
    None with actual fossilized life, but there have been meteors discovered with larger organic compounds in them, such as amino acids:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murchison_meteorite

    With some of the recent discoveries on Mars its entirely plausible that we will find fossils there at some point, once we really start digging. Whether these fossils really look like bacteria or not is another question. If they do, its a definite possibility that earth's first life actually came from Mars, which would be crazy.

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  12. #52
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    Default Re: This survey cannot be serious

    Quote Originally Posted by IO_OGIJ View Post
    I assume this has to have been done before, but....have meteors ever shown any signs of past life on them? I believe that some day in the next 20-30 years we discover some kind of fossil on another planet or evidence of bacteria.
    As supergoat has said there has been evidence recovered of organic material from meteorites. The problem with finding fossils in meteorites is that most of the asteroid or comet material was burned up upon entry. There is a program in NASA that wants to land a probe on an asteroid/comet.

    Both objects are intriguing. On the one hand comets are composed of dirt and ice. Obviously the presence of water is always a good starting point searching for life because of its unique properties and benefits for biological organisms. However, when comets get near to the sun the water vaporizes forming the tail. This vapor material would making landing on a comet near us quite difficult.

    Asteroids contain carbon, which is another building block of biological life. They don't vaporize near the sun since there isn't as much ice (if any). Asteroids are also intriguing bodies to probe because they could possibly be chunks of other planets that were dislodged from an impact with that planet.

    More to your point Jigo_oi, there are numerous organisms here on Earth that survive extreme conditions. Organisms that can live in glaciers, valcanoes, organisms that can survive extreme radiation (which would be required in space), and organisms that can hibernate for decades in a cryo-like state to be revived when conditions are favorable.

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  14. #53
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    Default Re: This survey cannot be serious

    Quote Originally Posted by supergoat52 View Post
    The same way we can definitively say a lot of things; there is no evidence whatsoever supporting it. That doesn't mean its not true, but it does mean its highly unlikely. Bigfoot would be another example where its quite clear "he" doesn't exist because there is 0 evidence, but we cannot formally say that there is 0 chance of him existing.

    Also the issue isn't so much whether aliens could find earth/us, its what they would do when they did. How do you travel thousands/millions of light years without taking millions/billions of years? It may be possible, but it also may not be. Both of those are legitimate possibilities.
    there are lots of claims of evidence. There are also some other things that become really, really hard to otherwise explain. Such as Max's example of these blocks



    how did they got put where they are?

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    Default Re: This survey cannot be serious

    I thought we already concluded where those blocks came from KI. I'm on my phone right now and it's not exactly easy to post a picture on there.

    Can someone else please handle?
    I am also known as Liberace.

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  16. #55
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    Default Re: This survey cannot be serious

    I think that landing on the moon with the technology we had is much more unbelievable than thousands of people moving a big rock.

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  18. #56
    Formerly known as Talm MalTalm's Avatar
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    Default Re: This survey cannot be serious

    Quote Originally Posted by cafemerald View Post
    For the first bolded part... yes we currently use telescopes to examine the heavens, optical, radio, whatever they may be. But why would I use a shovel? Why not create a machine with some optical sensor that identifies the color orange? Or a machine that searches for the chemical compounds of the paint? You are using the most advanced technology for one, and the most rudimentary technology for the other. Which is silly.

    As for the second bolded part, you assume a new civilization can find life on other planets... but for some reason they aren't using like technology to search for the grain of sand. Which is silly again.

    Regardless of technology, finding a grain of sand on a beach is a much much much easier proposition than finding life on other planets.

    Assuming I can use a set of advanced technology for one task, but am forced to use rudimentary technology for another task is the exact convolution I was referencing.
    I think you missed my point, and also supported it at the same time here. Yes, we have technology which would significantly enhance your ability to find a colored piece of sand beyond a shovel. A shovel is a rudimentary way of searching for an individual grain of sand. Similarly, I would argue many of our instruments we are using to study the heavens are only a bit more advanced than a shovel for this comparison's sake. In even 100 years, we should be identifying 50-100 planets viable for life a day. Right now, it takes us months to identify a single one.

    A civilization which is more technologically advanced would be far more capable of identifying life on other planets at a much greater rate, and would likely have identified Earth as one of those planets. That doesn't change we have nothing to warrant special attention, so there would be no need to travel to Earth, even if they had the capability to do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by KI4MVP
    I think they'd find time to visit all planets with life.
    Why would they bother? There'd be a near infinite supply of life throughout the universe, and they'd likely have bigger issues on their mind than stopping by to say hi to everyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cafemerald
    More to your point Jigo_oi, there are numerous organisms here on Earth that survive extreme conditions. Organisms that can live in glaciers, valcanoes, organisms that can survive extreme radiation (which would be required in space), and organisms that can hibernate for decades in a cryo-like state to be revived when conditions are favorable.
    There are also a few extremely rare examples of Arsenic and Nitrogen based life on Earth, but neither are properly classified as such, because we have such a narrow definition of what "life" constitutes. However, we see these organisms capable of absorbing nutrients, excreting waste, reproducing and dying. Crazy stuff.
    Last edited by MalTalm; 11-17-2012 at 11:30 PM.
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  20. #57
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    Default Re: This survey cannot be serious

    Quote Originally Posted by supergoat52 View Post
    I'm convinced that there is just a certain segment of the population that always votes for the ridiculous answer on these polls. Essentially 50% of the population sits down and goes:

    Aliens? Real and among us. See OP.
    Evolution? Fake and full of holes. http://www.gallup.com/poll/21814/evo...nt-design.aspx
    Global warming? global BULLSH*T! http://www.gallup.com/poll/153608/gl...rm-winter.aspx
    Obama's religion? Don't know/Muslim http://www.gallup.com/poll/155315/Ma...-Religion.aspx

    And perhaps the scariest poll in my mind is when people are asked whether they would vote for an otherwise well qualified candidate who was ___, what is the most hated group? Blacks? Psh, only 4%. Gays? No, only a mere 30%. Muslim? Psh, whatevs. No, the greatest feared group is Athiests at 43%. http://www.gallup.com/poll/155285/At...andidates.aspx

    These polls make me hate the world....thanks for sharing...

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  22. #58
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    Default Re: This survey cannot be serious

    Quote Originally Posted by Malt View Post
    Why would they bother? There'd be a near infinite supply of life throughout the universe, and they'd likely have bigger issues on their mind than stopping by to say hi to everyone.
    two possibilities

    1 - life on other planets is rare, so advanced life on those planets would seek out all of the other planets with life
    2 - life on other planets is abundant, thus there are more sources of advanced life on other planets than have a chance to find and visit earth.

    The answer of being certain that it hasn't happened is the hardest to understand of the three answers. You pretty much have to be 100% certain that earth is the only planet with (intelligent) life to claim certainly that we haven't been visited.

  23. #59
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    Default Re: This survey cannot be serious

    Quote Originally Posted by KI4MVP View Post
    two possibilities

    1 - life on other planets is rare, so advanced life on those planets would seek out all of the other planets with life
    2 - life on other planets is abundant, thus there are more sources of advanced life on other planets than have a chance to find and visit earth.

    The answer of being certain that it hasn't happened is the hardest to understand of the three answers. You pretty much have to be 100% certain that earth is the only planet with (intelligent) life to claim certainly that we haven't been visited.
    If we are talking about alien life capable of harnessing the power and technology to travel immense distances in very small spans of time, we wouldn't be classified as "intelligent" on their radar yet. We can't properly harness the power of our own planet, much less our solar system. We'd be inconsequential.
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  24. #60
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    Default Re: This survey cannot be serious

    Quote Originally Posted by KI4MVP View Post
    two possibilities

    1 - life on other planets is rare, so advanced life on those planets would seek out all of the other planets with life
    2 - life on other planets is abundant, thus there are more sources of advanced life on other planets than have a chance to find and visit earth.

    The answer of being certain that it hasn't happened is the hardest to understand of the three answers. You pretty much have to be 100% certain that earth is the only planet with (intelligent) life to claim certainly that we haven't been visited.
    Possibility number 3:
    There are other planets with intelligent life, they know we exist, but they can't do sh*t about it because there is a cap on how fast you can travel. This right now seems to be the most likely scenario that i don't think you are properly accounting for. People who don't think aliens have visited us do not necessarily believe that we are the only life in the universe. I agree the statistics suggest that we are not alone (though keep in mind, we are guessing at those numbers too). But i think it is much more likely that they can't find/reach us than it is likely that they come here and move big rocks and leave vague signs in art and fields of corn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malt View Post
    If we are talking about alien life capable of harnessing the power and technology to travel immense distances in very small spans of time, we wouldn't be classified as "intelligent" on their radar yet. We can't properly harness the power of our own planet, much less our solar system. We'd be inconsequential.
    Disagree with this a bit. If we found a planet full of cats we would classify them as intelligent and investigate them, even though they would be far "beneath us". Also the internet would probably break.

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