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  1. #136
    Private eyes, Watchin You Tornicade IED's Avatar
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    Default Re: Union Kills the Twinkie

    this is ridiculous. you act this is something that just came abut this month . this is a culmination of a decade of mismanagement

    http://bctgm.org/PDFs/HostessFactSheet.pdf

    that s from the group that went on strike. Hostess made their offer and I doubt bctgm will have little problems showing their right to strike as outlined by the bankruptcy court.

    the company has shut down 21 plants since 2004.
    they took the concessions the company did obtain and did not reinvest them into the business.
    The companies bankruptcy plan doesnt cut the mustard.

    the company certainly didnt ask anyone when they stopped paying pensions.

    This company has spent over 7 years in bankruptcy court. the after efects of everything that happened will be a case study for years to come. there will be alot of manuevering and at some point the bankruptcy court wil want to hold someone accountable. 6 ceo's in 10 years is alot of eleadership change.

    © 2012 BCTGM | The Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union
    In bankruptcy court, Hostess retained one of the top law firms in the nation (Jones Day) at ludicrously high hourly rates and attacked its union contracts. Hostess has demanded:
    An immediate 8% wage reduction;
    The shift of at least 20% more health care costs onto its employees,
    Elimination of the employees’ W-1 (retiree medigap insurance) and P-Plan (a pension supplement used to pay health and funeral costs);
    Closure of additional plants (10-12), refusing to tell the union which plants are profitable, which plants will be closed, why, etc.
    Elimination of the eight-hour work day

    12 plants would be closing not saying where and when. why would these guys agree to new contract that most likley would put them out of a job anyways.


    Last edited by Tornicade IED; 11-19-2012 at 06:23 PM.

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  3. #137
    BANNED Maximus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Union Kills the Twinkie

    Quote Originally Posted by Tornicade View Post
    employees have the right not to work for a company if they choose.

    Employees should also have the right TO work for a company if they choose...

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  5. #138
    Private eyes, Watchin You Tornicade IED's Avatar
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    Default Re: Union Kills the Twinkie

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus View Post
    Employees should also have the right TO work for a company if they choose...
    you dont find it odd that the restructuring was gonna cost about 6 thousand jobs and the union that went on strike had about 5 thousand employees?

    Without knowledge of what plants were being shut down the employees had no idea if they were voting themselves out of jobs regardless.

    The order for mediation allows the bankruptcy court to open a line of discovery. this would also let him see if the union is just plain unreasonable. giving him the option of allowing the company to void their contracts or make a decision their decision was just . this is a win win for the court as it can clear up hurdles in bringing in a new buyer for the company or allowing a the liquidation to proceed.

    it also allows the court to delay judgements on the liquidation and the executive bonus request.

    This followed the Us trustee requesting that the liquidation be taken out of Hostess hands citing the request for compensation.


    but lets look at august monthly budget the company took a 2905 operating loss. reorganization fees were 4723.

    ointly Administered
    Monthly Operating Report for Period Ended June 30, 2012
    STATEMENT OF OPERATIONS [1]
    Four Weeks
    Ended
    ($ in 000's) June 30, 2012
    Gross route sales $ 253,444
    Route returns 21,581
    Route sales, net of returns 231,863
    Trade allowances 62,844
    Net route sales 169,019
    Retail sales, net 13,772
    Direct sales, net 3,515
    Net revenue 186,306
    Ingredients 43,845
    Packaging 7,284
    Direct labor 20,722
    Indirect labor 7,351
    Overhead and other costs 12,091
    Cost of goods sold 91,293
    Gross profit 95,013
    Selling expense 56,126
    Delivery expense 20,482
    Selling and delivery expense 76,608
    Workers' compensation 4,758
    Selling, general and administrative 9,244
    EBITDA 4,403
    Restructuring charges, net 47
    Reorganization charges, net 4,723
    Depreciation and amortization 2,522
    (Gain) loss on asset dispositions 16
    Operating income (loss) (2,905)
    Interest expense [2] 1,936
    Other income (loss) (174)
    Income (loss) before tax (5,015)
    Income tax benefit 111
    Net income (loss) $ (5,126)
    REORGANIZATION CHARGES, NET [3]
    Professional fees $ 4,723
    Total reorganization charges, net $ 4,723
    [1] Certain amounts have been reclassified within the Statement of Operations
    beginning in the period ending June 30, 2012, to be consistent with changes made in
    the Company's internal reporting. Summary category totals such as net revenue,
    cost of goods sold, gross profit, EBITDA and net income (loss) are consistent with
    prior periods.
    [2] Interest expense excludes unrecorded contractual and other interest expense of
    $11,023.
    [3] Professional fees have been estimated by the Debtors and will be adjusted for
    actual invoices received. See Note 5, Reorganization Charges, Net in the Notes to
    Monthly Operating Report for further discussion.
    6

  6. #139
    So we come to it at last Chris's Avatar
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    Default Re: Union Kills the Twinkie

    wait do they make Zingers

    for the love of god please tell me they dont make zingers

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  8. #140
    Valar Morghulis Nicky's Avatar
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    Default Re: Union Kills the Twinkie

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    wait do they make Zingers

    for the love of god please tell me they dont make zingers
    Yes, they make Zingers. Sorry, buddy.
    Lookie, lookie. I've got Hookie.

  9. #141
    Formerly known as Talm Malt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Union Kills the Twinkie

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    wait do they make Zingers

    for the love of god please tell me they dont make zingers
    Thank God someone came in to get this thread back on track.
    I've been nothing but complementary of Weeden.
    -b00bie

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  11. #142
    Golden Shower Member Lee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Union Kills the Twinkie

    Some company will at the very least buy the name, recopies and good will in BK court. Not all is lost for Hostess fans, but no guarantee they keep the same plants.

    To be honest, even though I am not a fan of unions, both sides need to agree this was as much about mis-management as the evil of unions. Both sides are to blame for this disaster.

    That said, those who act like unions dont ever do anything wrong have never had to directly deal with them, but are still thinking about the concept of unions, not the reality. I dont want to speak for Max and others, but I would think he would agree the concept was necessary, but the problem is they are quite often as poorly managed as the idiots who ran Hostess and force companies into decisions no one in their right mind would do (like 2 truck routes based upon products and not geography). Both are blamed for losing jobs and money. (although many top level execs of large companies have a far more complex job than most give them credit for)
    Last edited by Lee; 11-19-2012 at 07:48 PM.

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  13. #143
    ^ kind of a big deal! cavsfan1985's Avatar
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    Default Re: Union Kills the Twinkie

    Does anyone who is pro union in this case understand capitalism? It's supply and demand, if a company can get workers to work for less it is their duty to find those unions. It is also why we outsource. Do I agree 100% no, but in this case the workers had no leverage. Would you rather be out of a job? Or take a payout.

  14. #144
    . David.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Union Kills the Twinkie

    Hostess's inability to find cheaper workers was made clear when they filed for BK.

  15. #145
    Catch the wave Gary Barnidge's Avatar
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    Default Re: Union Kills the Twinkie

    Can anyone explain to me how the top management can do such a poor job and yet still look to receive 1.75 million in incentive bonuses while they fire 18,000 employees? Can anyone explain to me how they went into bankruptcy and came out with even more debt? Or why it was cool for them to stop paying into pensions?
    Ass pennies

  16. #146
    Private eyes, Watchin You Tornicade IED's Avatar
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    Default Re: Union Kills the Twinkie

    Quote Originally Posted by cavsfan1985 View Post
    Does anyone who is pro union in this case understand capitalism? It's supply and demand, if a company can get workers to work for less it is their duty to find those unions. It is also why we outsource. Do I agree 100% no, but in this case the workers had no leverage. Would you rather be out of a job? Or take a payout.
    Unions are every bit of a capitalism product as anything else.

    You have service that is paid for by employees to represent their interest based on supply and demand. the problem is that employees are looked at more as servants than contracters.

    as far as outsourcing. I have worked for many non union copanies that outsource their employees.

    while I agree Unions can b e flawed as everything else what is being presented here is that All unions are worthless. its one thing to say this union mismanaged th situation or was being silly than use it to make general statements about all unions.

    We have watched investment firms and others sweep in non mismanagment and get their way because they have equite. Unions are finally starting to see that in order to maintain leverage they need to leverage their servces in a similiar fashion.

    this bodes well for the future fr union and non union workers alike,

    Companies depending on their size get alot of benefits fr the simple fact of employing people in respective communities. Towns and cities economies can be greatly impacted by what these companies do and how they conduct their business.

    money is power but so is numbers. Companies offer benefits in lieue of salary and then work towards reducing those benefits. then generations later those benefits are treated like perks . corporate welfare handed out of the benovalence of kind caring corporations. when in actuality they chose to give those benefits out a long time ago instead of salary.

    labor is a commodity
    Last edited by Tornicade IED; 11-19-2012 at 09:10 PM.

  17. #147
    ^ kind of a big deal! cavsfan1985's Avatar
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    Default Re: Union Kills the Twinkie

    Quote Originally Posted by Tornicade View Post
    Unions are every bit of a capitalism product as anything else.

    You have service that is paid for by employees to represent their interest based on supply and demand. the problem is that employees are looked at more as servants than contracters.

    as far as outsourcing. I have worked for many non union copanies that outsource their employees.

    while I agree Unions can b e flawed as everything else what is being presented here is that All unions are worthless. its one thing to say this union mismanaged th situation or was being silly than use it to make general statements about all unions.

    We have watched investment firms and others sweep in non mismanagment and get their way because they have equite. Unions are finally starting to see that in order to maintain leverage they need to leverage their servces in a similiar fashion.

    this bodes well for the future fr union and non union workers alike,

    Companies depending on their size get alot of benefits fr the simple fact of employing people in respective communities. Towns and cities economies can be greatly impacted by what these companies do and how they conduct their business.

    money is power but so is numbers. Companies offer benefits in lieue of salary and then work towards reducing those benefits. then generations later those benefits are treated like perks . corporate welfare handed out of the benovalence of kind caring corporations. when in actuality they chose to give those benefits out a long time ago instead of salary.

    labor is a commodity
    No I agrees unions have their place, police/fire, teachers, and trades need unions. But other then that, their are enough laws to protect workers. All unions do is raise the cost of goods, which inturn raises the price of goods for you and I. If a labor force needs a union for rates the they are over paid. If you have job that is in demand you can lower wages, a job in low demand raise them. Thus why doctors make a lot, and and someone who puts screws in a car does not. Supply/Demand.

  18. #148
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    Default Re: Union Kills the Twinkie

    I'm surprised the name hasn't been taken for a Lakewood bar yet.

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  20. #149
    Fighting the good fight! gourimoko's Avatar
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    Default

    Are people arguing against the right to unionize? Seriously???

    Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

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  22. #150
    formerly LJ4MVP KI4MVP's Avatar
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    Default Re: Union Kills the Twinkie

    Quote Originally Posted by gourimoko View Post
    Are people arguing against the right to unionize? Seriously???
    not that I've seen. The argument is that unions overstep their bounds when they do things like force a company to have redundant personnel.

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