Union Kills the Twinkie

[Tornicade]

Too bad you had to go there with the incendiary remarks. I don't know why you feel what you feel, but it's a shame that you couldn't continue an educational, informative discourse on the subject without letting your emotion get in the way.

I feel that i was responding to a poster who had said unions were okay for educated and skilled workers but not general labor. In addition made several references about the work ethic of general labor overall.

so lets break it down

Definition of POMPOUS

1
: excessively elevated or ornate <pompous rhetoric>

2
: having or exhibiting self-importance : arrogant pompous politician>


Self Importance would be the multiple statements that his wife being a teacher merited her for union protection . even if it was weak. yet a different attitude those "blue" collar worker types "unless they hade a trade.


1
: a member of an aristocracy; especially : noble

2
a : one who has the bearing and viewpoint typical of the aristocracy
b : one who favors aristocracy

3
: one believed to be superior of its kind aristocrat of Southern resorts — Southern Living


now just like any proper nobleman the posters words insinuate and paint a picture of a man who believes postsecondary education merit union reputation while the uneducated lazy peasants deserve none and only serve to ruin the country as the increase cost and coud possibly cause his company to use money that might of been better served paid to an educated member of the workface instead of the lazy peasant who shoud be happy to have a job at all.


now i could of possibly used the terms elitist or hypocrate but those seemed rather harsh considering the over all good nature of the poster

[natedagg]

I feel that i was responding to a poster who had said unions were okay for educated and skilled workers but not general labor. In addition made several references about the work ethic of general labor overall.

now just like any proper nobleman the posters words insinuate and paint a picture of a man who believes postsecondary education merit union reputation while the uneducated lazy peasants deserve none and only serve to ruin the country as the increase cost and coud possibly cause his company to use money that might of been better served paid to an educated member of the workface instead of the lazy peasant who shoud be happy to have a job at all.


now i could of possibly used the terms elitist or hypocrate but those seemed rather harsh considering the over all good nature of the poster
[/I]

Have you been drinking?... Anyway, the problem with general labor (as I see it... I come in peace) is that it's so replaceable. If an employee is lazy and has no skills, he shall be replaced. If he isn't lazy and has no skills, but wants more than the next person looking for a job who isn't lazy and has no skills, the first shall be replaced. If he has entrenched himself into the company by taking on so much, then he probably won't be replaced. It all seems so simple to me, but it probably isn't. The problem with the pricing power of unions (from a business owner's perspective) is that at some point, the unskilled work that is so pricey here will be moved abroad. That's often out of necessity, not greed.

[Doc Shakalou]

Have you been drinking?... Anyway, the problem with general labor (as I see it... I come in peace) is that it's so replaceable. If an employee is lazy and has no skills, he shall be replaced. If he isn't lazy and has no skills, but wants more than the next person looking for a job who isn't lazy and has no skills, the first shall be replaced. If he has entrenched himself into the company by taking on so much, then he probably won't be replaced. It all seems so simple to me, but it probably isn't. The problem with the pricing power of unions (from a business owner's perspective) is that at some point, the unskilled work that is so pricey here will be moved abroad. That's often out of necessity, not greed.

Nah, his posts are always a challenge to get through. He's been better as of late, not sure what happened there. Anyway I'm really not sure where I stand on unions. I definitely think they have their place and they were instrumental in improving employee wages and safety. I don't think they should have the power to scuttle a company. Obviously there was more to the story here, but it's definitely an issue if a union can force a company to do things detrimental to the business. I.E. multiple drivers and trucks doing the same route with different products.

[JiggleIt]

Nah, his posts are always a challenge to get through. He's been better as of late, not sure what happened there. Anyway I'm really not sure where I stand on unions. I definitely think they have their place and they were instrumental in improving employee wages and safety. I don't think they should have the power to scuttle a company. Obviously there was more to the story here, but it's definitely an issue if a union can force a company to do things detrimental to the business. I.E. multiple drivers and trucks doing the same route with different products.

Incidentally I think there's a solid chance I end up landing a job I recently applied for. They're unionized, not a labor union though.

Hey, we've been wondering...do you think you'll end up landing that unionized job you applied for?

[Doc Shakalou]

Hey, we've been wondering...do you think you'll end up landing that unionized job you applied for?

Sorry, I'm excited as Hell since this is the first real solid lead I've had. Also I forgot about a couple of the previous posts as I was very drunk.

You could at least wish me luck asshole. I hope you encounter bright flashing lights.

[TheISHT]

Unions benefit old lazy fuckers and steal money from young people. I love how you can opt out of unions, but still have to pay 90% or so of the dues. Why can't one opt out and not have the protection from the union? Why do all the Union People at the hall drive nice ass cars?

[Randolphkeys]

Can anyone please take me through the logic of any union? What the purpose is? I don't understand it at all, and I know that I am carrying some misconceptions:

-If you are unskilled, and your wage sucks, then get a skill or start a business.
-If your wage sucks, work for a competitor. If their wage sucks, find a different sector.
-If so many unskilled wages suck, that is because your unskilled labor is a commodity.
-There are laws in the US in place that prevent horrible working conditions, no?

So what does a union do for the modern worker? How does it help? My wife is in a union for school teachers (in CA) and she hates it. They preach seniority when she is the youngest teacher. It's like those teachers think that they have a right to be stagnant at their job. I know that I just don't see the pro-union side, so please help me out.

My answer will come post-holiday weekend. It will make everything okay. You asked a twenty page essay question during the holidays....

[natedagg]

My answer will come post-holiday weekend. It will make everything okay. You asked a twenty page essay question during the holidays....

I consumed an inordinate amount of amazing food yesterday. I understand the need to wait, and I look forward to your reply.

[Randolphkeys]

I consumed an inordinate amount of amazing food yesterday. I understand the need to wait, and I look forward to your reply.

So a few thoughts on why I support a teacher's union:

Let's start with what they most recently have accomplished: Proposition 30 gave significant funding back to California schools. It was Jerry Brown's hope to prevent significant furlough days, prevent larger class sizes, and provide more funding to the schools. The advertisements were paid for in part by the teacher's union dues. This action alone kept your wife in the classroom for a few more weeks this year and I'm sure put over a thousand more dollars into your wife's bank account.

When I signed my paperwork to teach in a public school, I was asked if I was joining voluntarily. I signed that I was, but I was surprised that California isn't a Right To Work state. I could guess the point was to show how many union members would join if given the choice.

In my experience, the union was always helpful. The first school I taught in was closed due to budget cuts. It was located near Candlestick Park and most of the students were in public housing. There were a lot of young teachers at the school who were well-trained and eager, and the union made sure we had preferential hiring in openings in other schools. That was helpful because some principals would have just gone off of test scores and assumed the teachers weren't effective. When I was younger I had a principal make Saturday school mandatory for students and teachers. Eventually a conversation with union heads educated the younger staff on the limits of what a principal can make mandatory.

At another point, I had a principal who set up not only daily meetings during work time, but also two afternoon meetings a week that would often last over three hours. The union stepped in and made sure that he followed the contract for meeting times or else we had a right to overtime. About a year later Obama's plan for "under-performing schools" came out. Arnie Duncan offered millions of dollars to school districts if schools at the "under-performing schools" made changes to half of their staff. The rule included schools with English Language Learners, so a school where the majority of students do not speak English yet was a casualty. I was asked to be one of the teachers who stays, but most of the staff would be Teach For America kids and they were talking about mandatory extra hours and Saturday schools again. With a wife and kid at home, I didn't want to deal with it all over again. The union made sure I was given preferential treatment in switching schools. Now I teach in the same neighborhood I live, and it's the only middle school to win the Distinguished School Award in town.

So, in my experience, the union has been extremely helpful in making sure that teachers have not been victimized when politics and budget cuts want to demonize the teacher for issues out of their control. I am aware that they aren't perfect and they have some crooked aspects to what they do, but they aren't one tenth as underhanded than the politicians who are entrusted the care of schools.

I'd sign the paper to be a union member all over again, despite the flaws.

[Randolphkeys]

So it is kinda interesting that I wrote a reflection on my teaching today... I just found out a former student was killed:

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-...ally-shot-east

This particular student had issues that don't need to be mentioned at this time. She was tough to work with, but I wouldn't have wished this on her in any way, shape or form. I had only taught about ten white kids in my career before entering the school I'm teaching in now, and this is a representation of what I worked with in that demographic. I average one or two stories about former students being killed from that era of my teaching every year. I really hope to go through a year without a night like this. Since I moved to a different school with a different family dynamic, I think I'm going to have fewer nights that end like this... glad the union saw to that.

[The Voice]

[KI4MVP]

great, you left out the part where they were paying themselves just $1/year prior to that to try to help avoid what happened.