Closer look at: Shabazz Muhammad

[pr26]

I actually think waiters has shown a lot of potential and I'm a fan....but even I wouldn't let him block a BPA pick. We need as much elite talent as we can get. Plus waiters, even though I think he's a good fit at SG, has the skill set to be an elite combo guard 6th man.

[Lottery God]

I get that, and trust me, I agree on Drummond.

If Muhammad had been in last years draft, I still would have preferred Drummond to him. However, I dont see a big with Drummonds rare potential/nba ready D in this draft enough to pass on Muhammad. As much as I like Len and Noel and think they are swing for the fences kind of guys, I think both are a notch below Anthony Davis and Drummond on potential. Then I think Cody is a safer bet but much lower on star potential than Len and Noel, though I could see the Zellers together being pretty marketable (just about as important as production in todays NBA, which makes me sick).

If we pass on Muhammad as a result of drafting Waiters, it would be an instant replay of passing on Drummond and TRob just because we already had their perfect backup in TT.

Cant do that twice in a row. This and next draft are the last two for this rebuild to set its core with lottery picks of our own. I think we have to go BPA.

I feel like in the 2011 draft with TT, we really felt like we were trying to draft BPA and not positionally. However, in the 2012 draft, I do agree that we may have possibly drafted positionally. However, here are some of my thoughts as to how the Cavs may have been trying to still draft BPA in the 2012 draft with Dion. I think that the Cavs may have been seeing Dion as more of an equal to guys like Lillard (at least in the long run). Dion is about 2 years younger than Lillard, so that has to be taken into account as well. Lillard also would have never been able to have shone here like Dion has the chance to because Lillard wouldn't be able to guard the 2 position, and he wouldn't get enough minutes at PG to really maximize his potential or trade value. It's still to be seen whether or not Dion will become anything like Lillard although, again, Lillard is a decent amount older.

As for worrying about Thomas Robinson, he really hasn't done much of anything yet, and I don't think he will amount to much. I'll take Dion over him no question. At least for now.

As for Drummond, I am seeing him as a steal at 9th, but his concerns were very legitimate. Legitimate enough that 8 teams--teams that consist of dozens of the world's best scouts and people with decades of basketball experience--passed on him. However, Drummond is still getting limited minutes, and he still has a lot of development to do in order to reach his potential. I think that Drummond has the biggest "we really missed out on him" potential out of anyone we passed on. We'll see how Dion develops, and we'll see how Drummond develops. Dion has been showing me enough to think that he can be an all-star shooting guard. The things he has been doing right are hard to teach, and the things that he is weak on right now are more easily fixable. That gives me a lot of hope with him.

I agree though that we need to take BPA in this next draft regardless of who that is. I think Len will be a better player than Zeller. Zeller's lack of strength, severe lack of length, and average athleticism (besides running, which is good) will hurt him. Len may not be quite as talented in the post (yet) as Zeller, but he is showing a lot of promise, and he is already excellent on defense and has elite size at 7'1" (7'5" wingspan). I feel like Len could be like a Roy Hibbert-type player, but better on offense and a little better of a rebounder (closer to 10 rebounds a game or more). I'm almost kinda hoping that Len ends up being the BPA because (1) he's at a more premium of a position than Shabazz, (2) there is no one of huge importance that he would be taking minutes from, and (3) he is a perfect fit into this team, being a guy who can get up and run, play great defense, and score efficiently and out to the midrange, thus spreading the floor for Dion and Kyrie.

I actually think waiters has shown a lot of potential and I'm a fan....but even I wouldn't let him block a BPA pick. We need as much elite talent as we can get. Plus waiters, even though I think he's a good fit at SG, has the skill set to be an elite combo guard 6th man.

The thing I'm afraid of, though, is that, if we move Dion to 6th man, he won't become worth keeping and actually become valuable to other teams than he is to us kinda like what happened with Harden. I know OKC came out ok in that situation (still to be seen), but who is to say we'd be able to do the same? It would be hard to have a max-contract 6th man if he ends up at an all-star level.

[Homestar]

I actually think waiters has shown a lot of potential and I'm a fan....but even I wouldn't let him block a BPA pick.

Dead-on. I'm still hopeful, but unless you come out and play like Irving in your first 25 games or so, you don't get cemented into the starting lineup for 4 years.

[ajz20]

Shabazz seems to be a tireless worker who will get the most out of his ability

[Rimage]

Shabazz is clearly much more suited to play the 2 than the 3. Not saying he couldn't play the three, but the top tier guys in the SF spot in the NBA are 6'7" and up. You have your Igoudala's and such that have shown they can effectively play the 3, but they don't excel in that position. Shabazz is listed as 6'5" most places on the web. I see him as 2 as do most out there.

I don't want my support for drafting Shabazz to be an indictment against Dion. Dion has had his ups and downs, but there isn't enough out there to put in the final ruling. Dion could go the Ben Gordon route or he could do what Kemba Walker is doing this season. Who knows? It doesn't matter to me, because I think a backcourt of Kyrie, Dion and Shabazz still makes sense. Even though Dion and Shabazz cover the same position in my opinion, their styles are different enough to where their roles won't conflict much. Dion can run the offense, which means he can play with Shabazz as the natural scorer he has shown to be, but Dion will also take shots (oh lord will he take some shots) which makes it no problem to play off the ball with Kyrie.

People talk about our gaping holes in the frontcourt. In my mind that is what free agency is all about. I don't like stating the options because you get massive backlash for talking about signing or trading for anyone decent on the forums and inevitably get told "this is Cleveland, forget about it!!!!". Paul Millsap and Josh Smith are FA though, and we got cap space...just saying.

[kookoo]

We could always have Waiters as our 6th man coming in for either Shabazz or Irving and have all 3 in when playing small ball. He (Muhammad) seems like he has an MKG type work ethic with better offensive skills. I like Poythress, but I don't know if his ball handeling and if we get either LA or Sactown's pick at 15 or 16, we could get Porter. I really hope we can get multiple lottery picks this season.

[MGMT]

With his size to play the 3 and how he busts his ass off the ball I believe they could be excellent together, actually.

[Numbers Guy]

There are quite a bit of 6-5 to 6-7 players playing the 3 spot. I know automatically we think of the 6-9 LeBron or the 7 foot Kevin Durant.. but guys like Corey Maggette, Richard Jefferson, John Salmons, Ron Artest, Beasley, Shawn Marion, Andre Iguodala, Paul Pierce, Danny Granger etc. all play the 3 spot at that height.

Shabazz plays more like those guys.. a list of some of the top SFs of the past decade, than a 2 guard.. though I think he can play in stretches there.

[Smooth]

A good question was raised to me when I was talking to someone about Shabazz playing the 3 full time...

Would you feel comfortable with him guarding the LeBron's, Durant's, Gay's, etc? And that could even be extended to other teams that include players like Paul George, Paul Pierce, Gerald Wallace, Luol Deng, Danillo Gallinari, etc..

While Shabazz does have the measurements of an average SF and will likely be able to play it part-time, does he have the defensive skill and measurements to play it full time and do it successfully against the league's top SF's? Because in the end, that's what's going to matter most...

Also, FWIW: Synergy ranks Muhammad as a "poor" defender, ranking in the bottom 13% of the NCAA, giving up 1.067 PPP... We'll see how that plays out through the season but so far that isn't good and doesn't help the case when potentially projecting him to be a SF, especially on this team where Irving and Waiters are already borderline defenders...

[Lottery God]

A good question was raised to me when I was talking to someone about Shabazz playing the 3 full time...

Would you feel comfortable with him guarding the LeBron's, Durant's, Gay's, etc? And that could even be extended to other teams that include players like Paul George, Paul Pierce, Gerald Wallace, Luol Deng, Danillo Gallinari, etc..

While Shabazz does have the measurements of an average SF and will likely be able to play it part-time, does he have the defensive skill and measurements to play it full time and do it successfully against the league's top SF's? Because in the end, that's what's going to matter most...

Also, FWIW: Synergy ranks Muhammad as a "poor" defender, ranking in the bottom 13% of the NCAA, giving up 1.067 PPP... We'll see how that plays out through the season but so far that isn't good and doesn't help the case when potentially projecting him to be a SF, especially on this team where Irving and Waiters are already borderline defenders...

First thing's first. Dion is a great defender for a rookie. He's already one of the top defenders on the team and what could be considered at least a "good" defender by NBA standards. Irving is right now a poor defender, yes although he is improving as of late. He's gone from, on a scale of 1 to 10 with 1 being just God awful, to 10 (LeBron/Dwight/prime Ron Artest or Ben Wallace) a 2 to a 4, just below average. It's a step in the right direction. I'd like to see him be at least average if not a little above average by the season's end although I don't expect him to make a large defensive improvement until next season. He's had too many injuries lately to get any sort of rhythm going in terms of being in great enough shape to give a 100% effort on both ends of the floor.

Secondly, I am glad that someone is finally admitting that Shabazz at least has average size for a small forward. But anyhow, I'll first refer to your comment about the synergy ranks of Shabazz. I'm not excusing him, but he has been out of shape all season and has just gotten back into shape. I am going to assume that number is going to become better by the season's end especially as he adjusts to playing against bigger/faster players.

You bring up a good question about how Shabazz can handle the biggest/best guys at the SF position. First, I don't think anyone is going to stop LeBron or Durant from scoring. They're just too consistent and can pretty much drop 30+ in any game of their choosing. They're just too dominant for ANY small forward to slow them down significantly. Those guys are regularly going to draw double teams no matter who is guarding them.

As for those other guys you mentioned, I think he'll be fine. He's an extremely intelligent scorer, so I don't think he'll be bothered by too many guy's size offensively. As for defense, size matters a lot less on the perimeter than it does in the post. Perimeter players aren't looking to throw their weight around to even nearly the extent that post players are. Also, blocks aren't a big factor on the perimeter even if you are super long. It's just rare to block a jump shot when you are a perimeter player guarding your man. You won't see a lot of perimeter players block their own man's shot a lot. They'll be more likely to block from the weak side. As long as he can get a hand up to affect shots, have the speed and length to deny passes and drives, and play tough defense, I think he'll be fine.

Sometimes you have to weigh the benefits and costs of things like these. He'll be fine with guarding most guys, and I think he'll excel offensively regardless of whether or not he plays the 3 or the 2. I think that, if he were to be drafted by us, he'd possibly split time between the two positions.

LeBron James - 2003 6' 7.25" 6' 8" 245 7' 0.25" 8' 10.25" 6.7

[Tecumseh]

I fully believe that Shabazz Muhammad is capable of playing small forward in the NBA. Wingspan, ability, talent, and work ethic would allow him to play the SF position. However, I'm not sure his talents are best utilized at the SF position. There is a huge difference between being able to play a position and being a great player at your position.

I sort of feel that putting Shabazz Muhammad at SF is like putting your most talented pitcher at closer. Does it help you win games? Yes. Are you fully utilizing the talents of that pitcher? No. If we are able to take him and do, it will be interesting to see what the Cavs decide to do with Waiters and Muhammad.

[Jack Brickman]

A good question was raised to me when I was talking to someone about Shabazz playing the 3 full time...

Would you feel comfortable with him guarding the LeBron's, Durant's, Gay's, etc? And that could even be extended to other teams that include players like Paul George, Paul Pierce, Gerald Wallace, Luol Deng, Danillo Gallinari, etc..

Who does guard LeBron or Durant? They guarded each other today and both put up monster lines. They're unguardable, and worrying about your three guarding them is totally pointless. If you want to beat the Heat, you shut down everyone but LeBron and Wade. If you want to beat the Thunder, you shut down everyone but Durant and Westbrook. Some guys are just flat out going to get theirs in the NBA.

[Lottery God]

I fully believe that Shabazz Muhammad is capable of playing small forward in the NBA. Wingspan, ability, talent, and work ethic would allow him to play the SF position. However, I'm not sure his talents are best utilized at the SF position. There is a huge difference between being able to play a position and being a great player at your position.

I sort of feel that putting Shabazz Muhammad at SF is like putting your most talented pitcher at closer. Does it help you win games? Yes. Are you fully utilizing the talents of that pitcher? No. If we are able to take him and do, it will be interesting to see what the Cavs decide to do with Waiters and Muhammad.

Like I've been saying, I feel that Shabazz would be perfect splitting his minutes between SF and SG if he were on this team. He could eat up all the minutes at the SG position when Dion is either on the bench or playing backup PG when Kyrie is on the bench and play the rest of his minutes at SF. That way, we would need no backup PG or SG because Kyrie, Dion, and Shabazz would cover all of those minutes. Man, what a backcourt combo that would be!

Who does guard LeBron or Durant? They guarded each other today and both put up monster lines. They're unguardable, and worrying about your three guarding them is totally pointless. If you want to beat the Heat, you shut down everyone but LeBron and Wade. If you want to beat the Thunder, you shut down everyone but Durant and Westbrook. Some guys are just flat out going to get theirs in the NBA.

It's true. How do you stop literally the best athlete of all time in LeBron James? He's 270, as fast as Rose, has a 43" vertical, arguably the strongest player in the NBA, and has great measurables for a SF with a height of 6'9" (grew an inch in 2008 and it's never been changed), 8'10" standing reach, and a 7'+ wingspan. I haven't even gotten to his skills yet. He can post up, shoot, drive, pass, and rebound extremely well. He can literally play all 5 positions well including center due to his skills and strength even if he is a little undersized for that although his weight is well above average for a center (low 250s is average for a center). I don't think any player in the history of the game could say that.

Then there's Durant. No one is going to stop a perimeter player with a 7'5" wingspan and 9'2" standing reach who has the ball-handling of a guard and elite scoring from all over the floor. He's like a Dirk with better ball-handling who plays on the perimeter. Stupid.

[MGMT]

I fully believe that Shabazz Muhammad is capable of playing small forward in the NBA. Wingspan, ability, talent, and work ethic would allow him to play the SF position. However, I'm not sure his talents are best utilized at the SF position. There is a huge difference between being able to play a position and being a great player at your position.

I sort of feel that putting Shabazz Muhammad at SF is like putting your most talented pitcher at closer. Does it help you win games? Yes. Are you fully utilizing the talents of that pitcher? No. If we are able to take him and do, it will be interesting to see what the Cavs decide to do with Waiters and Muhammad.

Actually, with Dion and Kyrie having the ability to drive-and-kick paired with Shabazz's borderline deadly outside shot along with how much he moves without the ball, I actually think it's a match made in heaven. Those three functioning together could be a well-oiled machine after having time to gel together, develop as players and having proper coaching. Moreover, Shabazz is pretty tenacious on the glass and finishes well down low so yeah, I think he would be pretty well-utilized there, in my opinion.

[TyGuy]

There are quite a bit of 6-5 to 6-7 players playing the 3 spot. I know automatically we think of the 6-9 LeBron or the 7 foot Kevin Durant.. but guys like Corey Maggette, Richard Jefferson, John Salmons, Ron Artest, Beasley, Shawn Marion, Andre Iguodala, Paul Pierce, Danny Granger etc. all play the 3 spot at that height.

Shabazz plays more like those guys.. a list of some of the top SFs of the past decade, than a 2 guard.. though I think he can play in stretches there.

Shabazz is unfortunately shorter than every player you mentioned. He would be the only small forward I can think of in the 6'4 ish range sans shoes.

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