Help Me Buy a Car.

[JiggleIt]

If I were in your position, I'd target 20k or under for the cost of the car. If you're desperately in need of a new rather than used car, consider looking at some 2012's as these guys want them off the lot asap.

I just don't see any value in a really nice car for you yet. 4-5 years from now, maybe. Save money for a house.

Bet Your grandparents would rather have had you put that money into something you can live in than sinking it into a car.

If you buy a car that costs more than 25k, I'll locate you and kick you in your seizy little nuts.

[Damage]

Prove your wife is hot.



If I don't end up shelling out the money for the electric one I'll likely just end up getting something used, cheap, or both. I should have also mentioned I'm looking to inherit at least $125,000 from a trust fund that my great grandpa set up for my grandma. There's over $1,000,000 in there that gets split between her 4 children. Since my dad is dead his share gets split between my sister and I. I'll actually probably inherit more than that because my grandparents are loaded, but the $125k is the minimum I stand to get. I'm not sure how it works but it will probably get taxed to Hell. It's not that much money but it'll be a nice cushion to have in the bank. I hate to say it but I'll probably end up getting it sooner rather than later. My grandparents are almost 90.

Me getting the car really depends on me landing this job I'm going for. I have a pretty solid shot though because I'm fully qualified and I'm playing the nepotism card.

This reads like a meme:

Grandpa dies and leaves inheritance:

Buys a Ferrari

Plus, you're kind of hoping for your grandparents to pass just so you can spend $700/month to save you $200-$300/month in gas. In other words, it's selfish and it makes no sense.

Save that money. Set up an IRA account (Hell, start a SEPIRA). Invest in commodities. Keep it under your mattress for all I care. Bottom line is don't blow it on a car. Everyone should go through the car hierarchy. For example: In high school I started off with a shitty '97 Honda Civic. College I moved onto my parents used '91 Jeep Cherokee. Sr year, I leased a 2001 Civic, fully loaded. Started working, bought used 2000 SAAB 93. Career started going well, I now own a 2010 BMW 128. You can't just jump into a 40k car unless you can afford it without worrying about gas prices.

My advice?

Ford Fusion
Kia Optima (maybe the Hybrid)
Volvo S60 (they lease really, really well)
Hyundai Sonata Hybrid
Hyundai Genesis Coupe (my buddy owns one - fast as fuck and gets 30 mpg).

[IWantAKouki]

Don't get me wrong, by no means is the Volt a bad car...in fact it is an awesome car and it's a fantastic idea. Doesn't suffer from the piss-poor range of other all-electric cars, but is all-electric for the distance that maybe 75% of Americans drive in each day. The gas engine still means that you aren't handcuffed into needing two cars for when you want to go out of town. It also has a fantastic user satisfaction rating, I believe the BEST user satisfaction rating for all new cars last year (granted, early adopters are going to rate their expensive new techno-toy a lot more favorably, but still impressive).

However, it's new technology, and it isn't really fiscally "worth it" - that is, it shouldn't be bought for fiscal reasons. Say you drive 30 miles every single day, 365 days a year, on the electric charge only, and let's look at some situations....

"Best" case for the Volt assuming you instead buy a new/used relatively economic car: gas prices at 4.00/gallon and your new 20k car gets 30 mpg. You save $1460 in gas per year. Takes about ten years to make up the difference between this and a Volt.

What if you bought a '12 pre-owned Focus that could deliver 35 mpg, for around $16,000? It would take 15 years to make up the difference even at $4.00/gallon.

Or buy a new Prius C for around 19k that gives around 45 mpg. 16.4 years to make up the difference.

Hell even if you bought a 20k car that got 20 mpg, it would still take nearly SEVEN YEARS to make up the difference of buying a Volt. 20k can buy you a lot of car on the used market. You could get something attractive, relatively quick and fun to drive (compared to a Volt), and even something with a warranty.

Or buy a $2000 Civic that gets 35 mpg and see a return in 26.4 years

People make a big stink about gas mileage but when you break it down to monthly or yearly expenditures, the difference in mpg and gas prices is pretty small for a single car and it rarely makes sense to buy a new car to save money in gas. And I guarantee that a majority of people complaining about a 10c rise in gas prices are wasting a bunch of money somewhere else in their lives...but that is a new topic...

[JiggleIt]

For the record, I sold the shit out of that TL as soon as I moved on to a position that (a) wasn't paying out the aine for me to get whatever car I wanted and (b) started driving about 10 miles a week working from home and staying off the road for health reasons as opposed to 1,000 miles a week on the road.

Take the 30 year old guys (plural) and IWantAJortsy's advice. We know our shit.

[Doc Shakalou]

This reads like a meme:

Grandpa dies and leaves inheritance:

Buys a Ferrari

Plus, you're kind of hoping for your grandparents to pass just so you can spend $700/month to save you $200-$300/month in gas. In other words, it's selfish and it makes no sense.

Save that money. Set up an IRA account (Hell, start a SEPIRA). Invest in commodities. Keep it under your mattress for all I care. Bottom line is don't blow it on a car. Everyone should go through the car hierarchy. For example: In high school I started off with a shitty '97 Honda Civic. College I moved onto my parents used '91 Jeep Cherokee. Sr year, I leased a 2001 Civic, fully loaded. Started working, bought used 2000 SAAB 93. Career started going well, I now own a 2010 BMW 128. You can't just jump into a 40k car unless you can afford it without worrying about gas prices.

My advice?

Ford Fusion
Kia Optima (maybe the Hybrid)
Volvo S60 (they lease really, really well)
Hyundai Sonata Hybrid
Hyundai Genesis Coupe (my buddy owns one - fast as fuck and gets 30 mpg).

I'm not even remotely hoping my grandparents pass for the money. I'd much rather never see it if it means they'll be around longer. My grandpa was basically my defacto father.

As for the Volt, it was just an idea because of the gas thing, I'd likely end up driving around 50 miles a day. I don't have my heart set on the Volt or anything, it was just something I came across when looking at low mileage vehicles. Getting a 7,500 tax credit was kind of appealing as well. If I sit down, crunch the numbers, and it's not worth it then I'm not going to get it.

[cafemerald]

Get a Yaris. Super cheap, super reliable. They moved the gauges back under the steering wheel so it doesn't look goofy as fuck. I love the go-cart handling of little cars like that.

As an engineer, I'd shy away from the Volt. I love the concept, but the battery technology isn't worth it. It's value will plummet in five to ten years when people realize what it will cost to replace the battery. Since it is truly an all electric drive train, this isn't an optional repair. Right now estimates are $8,000 for a replacement battery. But who knows what that will cost if the Volt doesn't sell well/if they change the battery configuration/etc. As parts get rarer they get more expensive. Since this part is already extremely expensive to repair.... I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. Especially a first generation product.

The tax write off is great... but you are basically paying less now to pay more later. Be smart, keep your resale value high, and invest in a car with good reliability that is relatively cheap to repair.

[JiggleIt]

Tax write-offs are also kind of a crock anyways. It's not like someone is handing you the $7,500. It's just getting applied towards your income. It'd be one thing if someone wrote you a check for $7,500, but that's not what's happening. I swear to God every year I think my tax write-offs are going to make a difference and I end up paying more than the year before.

[Doc Shakalou]

Thanks for all the advice. As I said, the only reason MPG was important to me is because I'm likely going to be doing a ton of driving daily. The Volt may be something I consider down the road after the technology has been around longer. As of now I'll probably just buy another Ford or something used with good MPG. Maybe I'll look into the Fusion someone mentioned earlier. Costs 21K gets almost 50mpg. I could handle getting to and from work on basically 1 gallon.

[Daddy Deezy]

First of all, paying off student debt is good, but not "the only way" to be financially responsible. For instance, say you have student loans with a fixed interest rate around 4.5% Instead of making the maximum payment towards those loans, you could pay the smallest amount possible, and then conceivably take the difference between the smallest amount you did pay and the maximum payment, and invest it (in stocks, a house, etc.) and make much more than the 4.5% interest you are being charged. I don't like to be in debt either, but I've held back on my student loan payments in the last few years to save for a large down payment on a house... and I'm betting that my investment will be a better use of my money than paying it towards the principal on my loans (and thus saving the interest charges).

As for the car, I would strongly urge against buying anything new... let someone else pay for the depreciation and buy a "near new" car with, say, under 30,000 miles on it. For instance, I got my wife a 2009 VW Passat 2.0 Turbo (same exact TSI engine that is in the new Audi A4s today) that was certified pre-owned with only 24,000 miles on it (and leather, navigation, etc.) a year ago for around 17K. When it was brand new the sticker price was right at $30K. Also, be sure to put down as large of a down payment as possible (sure you already knew that), and make sure your lender allows you to pay extra against the principal amount during any given month without any penalty. In fact, I think you're a fellow OU alum... check out the OU Credit Union for their rates. I've financed 2 cars through them and have absolutely been happy with everything both times.

As for type of car, I'm fairly "unAmerican" in my opinions. That being said, the best bang-for-your-buck with regards to good fuel economy and good power is to go with a turbo. I own 2 (the Passat and an Audi A4). They both get 30+ MPG but have great power when needed.




Isn't being a "grown up" fun?!?!?!

[Maximus]

I'm not even remotely hoping my grandparents pass for the money. I'd much rather never see it if it means they'll be around longer. My grandpa was basically my defacto father.

As for the Volt, it was just an idea because of the gas thing, I'd likely end up driving around 50 miles a day. I don't have my heart set on the Volt or anything, it was just something I came across when looking at low mileage vehicles. Getting a 7,500 tax credit was kind of appealing as well. If I sit down, crunch the numbers, and it's not worth it then I'm not going to get it.

You will NEVER recoup the additional cost...you really don't even drive very much. Pick out the gas powered car you like, figure out how long you plan on owning it, guesstimate how many miles you will drive per year, guesstimate the depreciation and do the math. ECO cars are almost never worth it. Only real reason is if you are a tree hugger like Damage and you think you are slowing down the seas from rising 20 feet in the 5 next years. It is extemely expensive to own an eco car.

[Maximus]

Here you go...

I have no idea if the math is accurate or how many miles they factor per year, etc. But, I think it makes the point.


The Exorbitant Cost Of Savings: Don’t Buy A Volt If You Value Your Money

By Bertel Schmitt on April 6, 2012



Two years after the Volkswagen Golf was launched, it received a fuel sipping diesel in 1976. I presented the launch campaign in Wolfsburg, and the ground shook. It wasn’t because of my campaign. It was because of the body stamping presses. The offices of the Zentrale Absatzförderung, VW’s advertising department, were two floors above.

I presented a campaign that was all on savings. The Golf D had one of the, if not the best mileage of all compacts. Herr Plamböck, the gentleman who had to vet the campaigns before the big boss would see them, looked at my grand savings plan, and said: “Let’s have lunch.”

Over a Currywurst, Hartmut Plamböck said: “Bertel, did you check the added cost of that engine?” I forgot how much it was, but it was a lot. “You will have to drive 80,000 kilometers to get your money back!” Mr. Plamböck thundered. The plastic forks jumped as Plamböck pounded the table. He looked around, lowered his voice and added: “And then, the engine will fall out of the car.” At that time, Volkswagens had a bit of a corrosion problem.

I was reminded of that story when I came across a story in the New York Times that provides a sanity check on savings at all costs. Rarely does one recoup the added investment into fuel savings. Little has changed since my Wolfsburg Waterloo. Fuel savings come at a price, and you have to decide whether you pay at the pump or to the dealer. Paying at the pump makes more economic sense, but more often than not, emotions trump math.


One of the worst investments, says the New York Times story that uses data compiled by TrueCar, is the Chevrolet Volt. Says the Times:

“The Volt, which costs nearly $40,000 before a $7,500 federal tax credit, could take up to 27 years to pay off versus a Chevrolet Cruze, assuming it was regularly driven farther than its battery-only range allows. The payback time could drop to about eight years if gas cost $5 a gallon and the driver remained exclusively on battery power.”

Mind you, the 27 year payback time is based on the TrueCar calculated $31,767 price of the Volt. Without the generous government rebate, financed by your tax dollars, the Volt would still be upside down long after it landed in a museum. At full retail, it would take 45 years to get you your money back. Payback is a bitch.

Driven fully on battery power, the Volt would needlessly drag around its heavy range extender machinery, but at least it would compete with Nissan’s LEAF in the ROI race. The Leaf takes 8.7 years to recoup the investment.

According to the study, “eco” upgrades usually are not worth the money. A Ford Fiesta SFE saves you $23 a year at the pump and on average. With these meager savings, the Fiesta actually beats the Volt in the senseless savings discipline. It would take 26.8 years to get you your money back.

As long as fuel saving cars carry huge premiums, you need to pray for higher gas prices, and you need to pray a lot. A survey by Lundberg says that gas prices need to go to $12.50 a gallon for the Volt to break even. The Leaf would be competitive with gas at $8.53 a gallon.

Are there savings that make sense?

If you really want to reconcile eco and economics, the sixth generation descendant of the Golf Diesel, the Jetta TDI, would recoup the added money before the warranty is up, says the Times. So do the Lincoln MKZ Hybrid and the Toyota Prius. Not only is their mileage much better than the comparison model, their price premium is so low that it can be easily recouped. As Toyota’s Satoshi Ogiso demonstrated a few months ago, savings at no added costs are the true engineering achievement.

[Doc Shakalou]

See, this is why I made this thread. Now I know my original idea was a stupid one.

[Walter White]

I don't know if anyone else has the situation where a certain type of car is like a family car. Like everyone in my family has 90' Buick Park Avenues. My grandparents on both sides, my mom and dad, me and my brother, my aunts and uncles, we all have Buick Park Avenues. And my grandpa, who is a hoarder, has like 5 himself. I mean we just ride those suckers til they fall apart. Finally like this year we have some new cars in the rotation since the other ones got worn down. Nothing new, like in the 2000's (well maybe early 2000's), but at least they aren't Buick Park Avenues, which is a pretty reliable car by the way.

[Doc Shakalou]

First of all, paying off student debt is good, but not "the only way" to be financially responsible. For instance, say you have student loans with a fixed interest rate around 4.5% Instead of making the maximum payment towards those loans, you could pay the smallest amount possible, and then conceivably take the difference between the smallest amount you did pay and the maximum payment, and invest it (in stocks, a house, etc.) and make much more than the 4.5% interest you are being charged. I don't like to be in debt either, but I've held back on my student loan payments in the last few years to save for a large down payment on a house... and I'm betting that my investment will be a better use of my money than paying it towards the principal on my loans (and thus saving the interest charges).

As for the car, I would strongly urge against buying anything new... let someone else pay for the depreciation and buy a "near new" car with, say, under 30,000 miles on it. For instance, I got my wife a 2009 VW Passat 2.0 Turbo (same exact TSI engine that is in the new Audi A4s today) that was certified pre-owned with only 24,000 miles on it (and leather, navigation, etc.) a year ago for around 17K. When it was brand new the sticker price was right at $30K. Also, be sure to put down as large of a down payment as possible (sure you already knew that), and make sure your lender allows you to pay extra against the principal amount during any given month without any penalty. In fact, I think you're a fellow OU alum... check out the OU Credit Union for their rates. I've financed 2 cars through them and have absolutely been happy with everything both times.

As for type of car, I'm fairly "unAmerican" in my opinions. That being said, the best bang-for-your-buck with regards to good fuel economy and good power is to go with a turbo. I own 2 (the Passat and an Audi A4). They both get 30+ MPG but have great power when needed.




Isn't being a "grown up" fun?!?!?!

Audis are actually my favorite car that I could feasibly afford at some point in my life. I'd love to get one if I can find a cheap used one, if not I'll just wait until my midlife crisis.

Edit: And nope. I just looked quickly, midlife crisis it is.

[Daddy Deezy]

I don't know if anyone else has the situation where a certain type of car is like a family car. Like everyone in my family has 90' Buick Park Avenues. My grandparents on both sides, my mom and dad, me and my brother, my aunts and uncles, we all have Buick Park Avenues. And my grandpa, who is a hoarder, has like 5 himself. I mean we just ride those suckers til they fall apart. Finally like this year we have some new cars in the rotation since the other ones got worn down. Nothing new, like in the 2000's (well maybe early 2000's), but at least they aren't Buick Park Avenues, which is a pretty reliable car by the way.

I used to have a Chevy Lumina with the exact same 3.8 V6 in it! We drove that fucker until it had 200,000 miles on it. It got terrible gas milage but lasted forever. Those were our family cars... Chevy Luminas. At one point we had 3 of them I think. A 1990 eurosport, a '91 and the Z34 with the 3.8 V6. My 1990 has such shitty loose shocks in the back that I could pump on the brakes in my high school's parking lot and make the ass-end of it bounce like it was on hydraulics.



Oh yeah... I used to roll that fucker when I was 16. 2 12" off-brand subs from Ames (its like Wal-Mart on Crack and I worked there!), a minidisc player in the dash, mis-aimed fog lights that shone right up into oncoming driver's faces, and one of those cheesy-ass neon license plate frames (no joke, I had one.) And you know what? I got more blowjobs in that car than any other car I've owned since. Maybe its because it was high school and that was the easiest way to "get some action" back at that age, or maybe, just maybe, it was because of this car's inherent vaginal magnetism.



Just picture me rolling in that bad boy... my American Eagle visor on my head... the wind blowing through the frosted tips on my hair... some Nelly rattling the shit out of my trunk because of my cheap-o Ames subs... Delivering pizza for East of Chicago Pizza while getting a BJ from my girlfriend I had picked up... Those were the days, boys. Those were the days.






EDIT: Must imagine large rust spots on lower doors of above picture for proper effect.