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  1. #91
    So we come to it at last Chris's Avatar
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    Default Re: Man Executes Two Teen Intruders

    Quote Originally Posted by Mac View Post
    Most would agree that he took it too far. I am just on the side of the fence that they got what they asked for and there is no way in hell I would ever convict a man for protecting his home...to clarify my stance.

    I have no remorse for thugs. Once you commit a felony, you have lost all of your given rights.
    I am not trying to defend felons or whatever you are about to accuse me of doing. Let me say that.

    But I think this is getting a little ridiculous. Basically we are now saying that everybody who commits a felony is subject to have their brain blown out their ear in cold blood. There are people on these very forums, no doubt, who have broken the law and maybe even done something just as serious as breaking into someone's house when they were young and dumb. I guarantee it. Do they deserve to be shot and killed or should they get an opportunity to turn their lives around? Especially people so young.

    So many Internet hardasses that get into discussions like this, talking about how if someone enters their home they would swing down from their staircase on a zipline dual wielding SAWs and tear the intruders to shreds. We need more common sense.

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  3. #92
    Oh My God! cdt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Man Executes Two Teen Intruders

    My thoughts...

    Was it wrong for him to execute them? Yes, did he have the right to shoot them? You're damn right. Were they wrong for being there and should they have known breaking into a home could result in their death? Yes. So while it's sad that their lives were lost it's not quite the same as if they were walking down a sidewalk after just volunteering or something...they were burglarizing a house for what could have possibly not been their first time. If someone violates the security and safety of my home I wouldn't hesitate to shoot them in the forehead out of self defense.

    I think the guy needs to do some serious time in a psychiatric ward because he sounds a bit off of his hinges sitting down to Thanksgiving dinner with two corpses on his property. Not to mention it seemed he took pleasure in killing someone. I'd have no problem taking the life of another out of self defense and protecting my family but the way he described it made it sound like an enjoyable event for him. Definitely not something I have on my bucket list.
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  5. #93
    So we come to it at last Chris's Avatar
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    Default Re: Man Executes Two Teen Intruders

    Quote Originally Posted by cdt View Post
    My thoughts...

    Was it wrong for him to execute them? Yes, did he have the right to shoot them? You're damn right. Were they wrong for being there and should they have known breaking into a home could result in their death? Yes. So while it's sad that their lives were lost it's not quite the same as if they were walking down a sidewalk after just volunteering or something...they were burglarizing a house for what could have possibly not been their first time. If someone violates the security and safety of my home I wouldn't hesitate to shoot them in the forehead out of self defense.

    I think the guy needs to do some serious time in a psychiatric ward because he sounds a bit off of his hinges sitting down to Thanksgiving dinner with two corpses on his property. Not to mention it seemed he took pleasure in killing someone. I'd have no problem taking the life of another out of self defense and protecting my family but the way he described it made it sound like an enjoyable event for him. Definitely not something I have on my bucket list.
    I agree 100%. I'd shoot someone invading my home, you really have no idea what weapons that intruder has or what their intent is (lots of sickos in todays world, for all you know they are there to tie your family up and rape/torture yall). Nobody is debating shooting these intruders as far as I see. It's the point where he executed them that he loses all credibility.

    But this guy is definitely a nut. Totally agree on it sounding like he enjoyed it and took pleasure in telling his version of events. Almost like he was proud. Not calling the cops because he didn't want to interrupt Thanksgiving? Yeah, that would definitely be my first thought after I just executed two kids in my basement.

  6. #94
    September 14 Urban's Avatar
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    Default Re: Man Executes Two Teen Intruders

    What unarmed, 18 year old girl laughs in the face of the man who just shot your cousin and just attempted to fire at you?

    I cannot get over how ridiculous this is, I cannot fathom how this is possible, even under the influence of some serious drugs.

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  8. #95
    Rising Star Ruken's Avatar
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    Default Re: Man Executes Two Teen Intruders

    Really it all comes down to if you buy first off that he claims he thought they might have a weapon. Defending your home actually gives you more lee way on self defense than say being attacked in an alley.

    Still the self defense has to be proportional to the force used on you. Clearly what he used was excessive and even not he will still get voluntary manslaughter because he executed both kids after they were both incapacitated.

  9. #96
    Rising Star Tlyons's Avatar
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    Default Re: Man Executes Two Teen Intruders

    Quote Originally Posted by IO_OGIJ View Post
    The kids are white and he's white, so this story will go away quickly. In addition to that, the guy has been very forthcoming with his motivations, so he's not leaving many questions un-answered. There really appears to be no mystery here other than whether (a) anyone really had broken into the guy's house in the past and (b) whether it was these two. So, my analysis here comes with the caveat that it's based on the facts as they're presented right now, obviously my opinion could change as more details come out.



    In my completely non-expert opinion, the (likely) applicable Minnesota statutes for authorized use of force and justifiable taking of life read:

    609.06 AUTHORIZED USE OF FORCE.
    (4) when used by any person in lawful possession of real or personal property, or by another assisting the person in lawful possession, in resisting a trespass upon or other unlawful interference with such property; or

    So he's authorized to use force in resisting the trespass according to that law. Question remains as to whether killing them was reasonable force to resist the trespass or if a lower level of action would have done the job sufficiently. Need more facts to argue either way. But based on what he himself has confessed, it sounds to me as if killing them was unreasonable force. So if I had to make a (non-expert) argument defending him, I'd say that shooting the first individual when he saw his hips would be reasonable. PARTICULARLY because seeing their hips might indicate that he was trying to inflict a wound on the lower half of their body, leaving less risk of inflicting a mortal wound. Waiting until he saw their chest and head could indicate that he intended to kill them from the beginning. If I could argue that he intended to shoot them in the lower half of the body to incapacitate them and stop the crime, I'd guess we'd have a pretty good shot to demonstrate reasonable force.

    To continue on to the next part of the authorized use of force sub-division.

    609.06 AUTHORIZED USE OF FORCE.
    reasonable force may be authorized...

    (5) when used by any person to prevent the escape, or to retake following the escape, of a person lawfully held on a charge or conviction of a crime; or


    Again, shooting them below the chest seems to be an easy reasonable force argument. It would be reasonable to expect that to stop their escape. What seems to me to be an added wrench, is that neither of the teens appeared to have been attempting to escape or even physically capable of escape after the first shot(s). I'm guessing (5) doesn't help them very much here, because preventing escape may have been moot.

    The next (likely) applicable statute:


    609.065 JUSTIFIABLE TAKING OF LIFE.
    The intentional taking of the life of another is not authorized by section 609.06, except when necessary in resisting or preventing an offense which the actor reasonably believes exposes the actor or another to great bodily harm or death, or preventing the commission of a felony in the actor's place of abode.

    If ONLY the first part of that sentence existed, "when necessary in resisting or preventing an offense which the actor reasonable believes exposes the actor...to great bodily harm or death," he might not get off. Reason being, the prosecution would probably demonstrate that by the time he killed them, he wouldn't reasonable believe he was exposed to bodily harm or death. They didn't have any weapons and it sounds as if they were completely incapacitated by the first shot(s). HOWEVER, the second half states, "or preventing the commission of a felony in the actor's place of abode."

    At this point, it becomes cut and dry in my opinion legally. They were committing 2nd degree burglary which MN law defines as:

    609.582 BURGLARY.

    Subd. 2.Burglary in the second degree. (a) Whoever enters a building without consent and with intent to commit a crime, or enters a building without consent and commits a crime while in the building, either directly or as an accomplice, commits burglary in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than ten years or to payment of a fine of not more than $20,000, or both, if:
    (1) the building is a dwelling;


    Their crime satisfies the second degree burglary definition and is thus a felony. Statute 609.065 JUSTIFIABLE TAKING OF LIFE authorizes an individual in their place of abode to take a life if it prevents commission of a felony.

    That's what he did. And that's why I think he'll get off.


    Not reading this whole thread.

    He dragged them into the same room, noticed one was still breathing, and shot kifer to finish it. nothing in those statutes authorizes that. Its murder. He's going to prison or looney bin.

    Meanwhile there is another Stand Your Ground case in Florida.

  10. #97
    Rising Star Ruken's Avatar
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    Default Re: Man Executes Two Teen Intruders

    Quote Originally Posted by Tlyons View Post
    Not reading this whole thread.

    He dragged them into the same room, noticed one was still breathing, and shot kifer to finish it. nothing in those statutes authorizes that. Its murder. He's going to prison or looney bin.

    Meanwhile there is another Stand Your Ground case in Florida.
    Still think they could lower it to manslaughter because they had broken into his home

  11. #98
    . David.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Man Executes Two Teen Intruders

    I really am shocked by what people say to the police

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  13. #99
    Bania'd RappSoda's Avatar
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    Default Re: Man Executes Two Teen Intruders

    Quote Originally Posted by Mac View Post
    Defending punk thug felons, I have no respect for you. They got exactly what they deserved, they had zero respect for another's property and committed a felony and got caught. Deal with it. They made the choice, they paid the price.
    You're condoning cold blooded execution. Moronic. I don't want respect from someone with such low cognitive ability.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mac View Post
    Is the guy nuts? Probably. But you break into my home, I get to do with you what I wish if I gain the upper hand. And thankfully the law in Ohio allows us to protect our home.
    Absolutely agree. In the situation, if I were a gun owner, I'd take a shot to incapacitate the perp. I wouldn't kill them in cold blood and then brag about it to the cops. That is called murder and this man will get locked up for going too far.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mac View Post
    Jigo seemed to look at the statutes, by law (obviously we aren't in deep detail), I don't see how the guy is arrested for murder.
    He blew someone's brains out while they were on the floor gasping for air. That is not a form of defense. It is offense and murder. That's pretty fucking simple and I'm sure the law will see it that way..

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  15. #100
    Private eyes, Watchin You Tornicade IED's Avatar
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    Default Re: Man Executes Two Teen Intruders

    the boys seems closer to elf defense. the girl was executed and thats clearly murder one. He picked her up and dragged her down stairs. he even said she didnt have a weapon. he then shot her for the kill shot. Thats clearly murder. premeditated even. the last shot will probably get him life in prison or the chair if its offered in the state.

    You cant argue that you was defending your self, when you pick someone up. carry them downstairs to the basement set them down then shoot them when you notice they were breathing.


    In regard to the use of the gun in this situation. the owner had a police report showing 10k worth of guns stolen from his residence so it was reasonable to assume anyone else breaking into his home while the original burglars were still at large could be an armed threat.

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  17. #101
    Slow Motion See Me Let Go Mac's Avatar
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    Default Re: Man Executes Two Teen Intruders

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    I am not trying to defend felons or whatever you are about to accuse me of doing. Let me say that.

    But I think this is getting a little ridiculous. Basically we are now saying that everybody who commits a felony is subject to have their brain blown out their ear in cold blood. There are people on these very forums, no doubt, who have broken the law and maybe even done something just as serious as breaking into someone's house when they were young and dumb. I guarantee it. Do they deserve to be shot and killed or should they get an opportunity to turn their lives around? Especially people so young.

    So many Internet hardasses that get into discussions like this, talking about how if someone enters their home they would swing down from their staircase on a zipline dual wielding SAWs and tear the intruders to shreds. We need more common sense.
    First of all...how am I an internet hard ass? Im not saying Im for executing home invaders, that I am doing any of that? Why be childish and throw that out there? You sound like the internet hardass.

    But yes, I do agree that if you are a felon, caught in the act of your actions, you get whatever happens to you. That's not young and dumb. You know damn well that you shouldn't do that. Young and dumb is doing a prank and somebody gets hurt. Jumping railroad tracks like the kids in Brunswick, etc..etc.. Not committing a felony and chalking it up as being young and dumb.

    If you....these punks...or anybody on this board is in the situation to where they think they deserve a chance to turn it around instead of staring down the barrel of a gun of a homeowner is being awfully generous. Once you commit the crime, you lose your rights. You don't deserve any leeway. I am a homeowner, I also own guns. Im not some gun enthusiast, NRA member or chest thumper, but if you break into my home, Im pulling the trigger until whatever it is that came in doesn't move anymore. That's a far cry from your SWAT scenario, but I have no idea what the person is capable of doing but pretty sure they are less likely to do anything further if they can't move. I don't care if they are 16 or 45.
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  19. #102
    Private eyes, Watchin You Tornicade IED's Avatar
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    Default Re: Man Executes Two Teen Intruders

    Quote Originally Posted by Mac View Post
    First of all...how am I an internet hard ass? Im not saying Im for executing home invaders, that I am doing any of that? Why be childish and throw that out there? You sound like the internet hardass.

    But yes, I do agree that if you are a felon, caught in the act of your actions, you get whatever happens to you. That's not young and dumb. You know damn well that you shouldn't do that. Young and dumb is doing a prank and somebody gets hurt. Jumping railroad tracks like the kids in Brunswick, etc..etc.. Not committing a felony and chalking it up as being young and dumb.

    If you....these punks...or anybody on this board is in the situation to where they think they deserve a chance to turn it around instead of staring down the barrel of a gun of a homeowner is being awfully generous. Once you commit the crime, you lose your rights. You don't deserve any leeway. I am a homeowner, I also own guns. Im not some gun enthusiast, NRA member or chest thumper, but if you break into my home, Im pulling the trigger until whatever it is that came in doesn't move anymore. That's a far cry from your SWAT scenario, but I have no idea what the person is capable of doing but pretty sure they are less likely to do anything further if they can't move. I don't care if they are 16 or 45.
    mac this homeowner made the right to defend his home moot when he carried a multiple gunshot wound victim down into a basement.checked for weapons found none. secured her against a wall then executed her with no rational fear to his or his families safety.

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  21. #103
    Bania'd RappSoda's Avatar
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    Default Re: Man Executes Two Teen Intruders

    Quote Originally Posted by Mac View Post
    I am a homeowner, I also own guns. Im not some gun enthusiast, NRA member or chest thumper, but if you break into my home, Im pulling the trigger until whatever it is that came in doesn't move anymore. That's a far cry from your SWAT scenario, but I have no idea what the person is capable of doing but pretty sure they are less likely to do anything further if they can't move. I don't care if they are 16 or 45.
    Well, if you drag the perp into your basement and blow their head off, you won't have time to post on this site. You'll be on death row or in jail. Have fun!

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  23. #104
    Best in the World The Voice's Avatar
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    Default Re: Man Executes Two Teen Intruders

    This guys story doesn't add up. Why didn't the girl run when she heard gun shots and then why would she proceed to go downstairs after her cousin had been shot? Also I sure as hell wouldn't be laughing if I got shot.
    OU... OH YEAH!!!!

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  25. #105
    Banņed cafemerald's Avatar
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    Default Re: Man Executes Two Teen Intruders

    This crazy case will all start to unravel once they find the semen.

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