Man Executes Two Teen Intruders

[Tornicade]

1. Where does it say it was an excluded house in the article? 2.) The shooter was in the basement, but sometimes basements are at ground level. For example if you go to Pennsylvania the ground level floor is usually called the basement. 3.) Even if he were shooting up, it could hit the neighbor on the second floor or their deck. Of course stray bullets hitting a person has a minimal chance of killing them. However, it does happen and we should limit it as much as possible.

That's great that more people die in car accidents. Does that really mean we should not focus on making things more safe other then cars?

if you actually read my post and checked the link you would see the story about the details of the incident.

gun safety is training, education, registration and stiffer penalties for using weapons in crimes not a design mechanism that can be altered.

When asked about possible suspects, Byron Smith said he often worked with kids and used to allow his friend's son and his friends to have band practice in his garage. He stopped it when they kept inviting too many friends and it got out of hand. "That would have made kids aware of where he lives and how secluded his residence is from the road," the incident report said.

http://www.startribune.com/local/181189391.html?refer=y

I have stated several times that this was clearly murder. people were debating about one shot or two shots and i made a facetious remark.

ultimately though your talking about fire rates.

ultimately stray bullets can kill and maim people . this is a factor any time you fire a gun regardless of its fire rates.

[The Voice]

I'm still telling you, this guys story doesn't add up.

Tornicade, can you tell me you honestly believe that an automatic has the same chance of hitting someone with a stray bullet as a non automatic? More bullets = more chances.

[KI4MVP]

The big drop in murders in this chart coincides with the passage of the brady bill in 1993



Firearm death rates per hundred thousand

[Ignatius]

The Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act (Pub.L. 103-159, 107 Stat. 1536) is an Act of the United States Congress that instituted federal background checks on firearm purchasers in the United States.

Gee, good thinking. That is an amazing concept and I'm surprised it took so long for people to realize it should be enacted.

I'm trying to understand how this all fits in KI...enlighten me.

By the way, I've bought several handguns and had federal background checks initiated. No problem with a non-criminal. Personally, though, I'd rather NOT be on file for purchasing a weapon for self defense. But, I digress.

[Tornicade]

The big drop in murders in this chart coincides with the passage of the brady bill in 1993



Firearm death rates per hundred thousand

you do see that other methods,knives and blunt objects would add up triple of "other Guns" (which includes rifles) and combine to chime in right under the current handgun rate. and what was the brady bill ?

1. Has been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;
2. Is a fugitive from justice;
3. Is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance;
4. Has been adjudicated as a mental defective or committed to a mental institution;
5. Is an alien illegally or unlawfully in the United States;
6. Has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions;
7. Having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced U.S. citizenship;
8. Is subject to a court order that restrains the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of such intimate partner, or;
9. Has been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.
10. Has a record of being a felon

what ya didnt show was how many guns the brady bill. which i never indicated I opposed and in fact stated I agreed that guns should be registered.

The Brady Law today

From 1994 through 2009, over 107 million Brady background checks were conducted. During this period 1.9 million attempted firearm purchases were blocked by the Brady background check system, or 1.8 percent.^[18] For checks done by the Federal Bureau of Investigation in 2008, felons accounted for 56 percent of denials and fugitives from justice accounted for 13 percent of denials.^[19] In 2009, felons accounted for 48 percent of denials and fugitives from justice accounted for 16 percent of denials. Between 2000 and 2009, over 30,000 denials were reversed on appeal.^[18] In April 2009, the FBI announced it had completed its 100 millionth NICS approval since its inception 10 years before.
Prosecution and conviction of violators of the Brady Act, however, is extremely rare. During the first 17 months of the Act, only seven individuals were convicted. In the first year of the Act, 250 cases were referred for prosecution and 217 of them were rejected.^[20]

[KI4MVP]

the brady bill wasn't part of the original post, i just noticed the big drop and noticed it. The point of the post was to respond to Tornicade's view of why worry about guns because there are other ways to kill people. I wanted to show how predominantly guns are used and how the situation in america compares to other countries.

The Brady Bill actually does fit in by showing that we can improve the situation with reasonable gun control. The NRA opposes any and all gun legislation, including the brady bill, which they bitterly fought every step of the way.

[KI4MVP]

you do see that other methods,knives and blunt objects would add up triple of "other Guns" (which includes rifles) and combine to chime in right under the current handgun rate. and what was the brady bill ?

1. Has been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;
2. Is a fugitive from justice;
3. Is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance;
4. Has been adjudicated as a mental defective or committed to a mental institution;
5. Is an alien illegally or unlawfully in the United States;
6. Has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions;
7. Having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced U.S. citizenship;
8. Is subject to a court order that restrains the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of such intimate partner, or;
9. Has been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.
10. Has a record of being a felon

what ya didnt show was how many guns the brady bill. which i never indicated I opposed and in fact stated I agreed that guns should be registered.

The Brady Law today

From 1994 through 2009, over 107 million Brady background checks were conducted. During this period 1.9 million attempted firearm purchases were blocked by the Brady background check system, or 1.8 percent.^[18] For checks done by the Federal Bureau of Investigation in 2008, felons accounted for 56 percent of denials and fugitives from justice accounted for 13 percent of denials.^[19] In 2009, felons accounted for 48 percent of denials and fugitives from justice accounted for 16 percent of denials. Between 2000 and 2009, over 30,000 denials were reversed on appeal.^[18] In April 2009, the FBI announced it had completed its 100 millionth NICS approval since its inception 10 years before.
Prosecution and conviction of violators of the Brady Act, however, is extremely rare. During the first 17 months of the Act, only seven individuals were convicted. In the first year of the Act, 250 cases were referred for prosecution and 217 of them were rejected.^[20]

so you're suggesting that because the brady bill only blocked access to guns to the people most likely to use them to shoot people and the gun fatality rate immediately began to decline that it didn't accomplish anything?

[Tornicade]

I'm still telling you, this guys story doesn't add up.

Tornicade, can you tell me you honestly believe that an automatic has the same chance of hitting someone with a stray bullet as a non automatic? More bullets = more chances.

are you saying that a person dying from a stray handgun is more acceptable than a person dying to a stray bullet from an ak 47?

[KI4MVP]

are you saying that a person dying from a stray handgun is more acceptable than a person dying to a stray bullet from an ak 47?

no, he's saying there's less chance per incident of the handgun case happening because people firing automatic weapons are naturally going to fire more bullets.

[Tornicade]

so you're suggesting that because the brady bill only blocked access to guns to the people most likely to use them to shoot people and the gun fatality rate immediately began to decline that it didn't accomplish anything?

The fall in gun-related death or injury in the USA parallels a steady drop in the nation's overall crime rate. No-one is certain why crime rates have fallen so steeply over the past 8 years, but today the rates for some crimes such as burglary, assault, and car theft are now lower in the USA than they are in the UK. It is likely that many factors have played a part in this fall. Some of the credit surely must go to a sustained economic boom, which has driven US unemployment levels—even among minority groups such as African-Americans and Hispanics—to record lows.

For several years now, unemployment has been holding steady at around 4%. The drop in the murder rate in particular seems in large part to be due to the waning of crack-cocaine-related “turf” wars that plagued the nation's inner-city neighbourhoods in the early 1990s. It is also likely that tough law-and-order measures, such as mandatory sentences for drug possession and for crimes involving guns—“hard time for armed crime” laws—have also had a big impact. Because of such laws, the US prison population, which was about 600 000 in 1990, has grown about 6·5% a year to an estimated 2 million today.


I am saying that Society awareness of the problem. people focusing more attention to the problem and educational programs, stiffer programs all factor in to what has been a succesful reduction in handgun crimes. the decline in handgun rates took about the same time to rise as fall. thats more indicative of a societal trend. I have no problems with the brady bill but the rate is the about the same now as it was in 1985. before the brady bill. Your argument is that there is less gun owners when there are actually more.

[The Voice]

are you saying that a person dying from a stray handgun is more acceptable than a person dying to a stray bullet from an ak 47?

Is it really hard to understand that an AK 47 fires more stray bullets then a handgun? Therefore, it has a higher probability of hitting someone?

[Doc Shakalou]

and what if he had run them over with a bus. would we need to ban busses?

Jesus Christ you're completely ignoring the point. I'm not saying we should ban guns. I just don't think the general public should be able to go out and purchase an assault rifle. My point was that shootings, like the one I described above, could be far worse if these guys had assault rifles. As I said before the guy got caught when he was forced to reload his pistol. Imagine if he had an automatic and was able to just spray bullets everywhere. At the very least we need some stricter form of mental screening. Guys who are completely off their rocker shouldn't be able to go out and buy a gun.

[Chris]

Is it really hard to understand that an AK 47 fires more stray bullets then a handgun? Therefore, it has a higher probability of hitting someone?

Seriously, do some people argue just to argue? An automatic weapon is exactly what it sounds like, go watch YouTube.

[KI4MVP]

The fall in gun-related death or injury in the USA parallels a steady drop in the nation's overall crime rate. No-one is certain why crime rates have fallen so steeply over the past 8 years, but today the rates for some crimes such as burglary, assault, and car theft are now lower in the USA than they are in the UK. It is likely that many factors have played a part in this fall. Some of the credit surely must go to a sustained economic boom, which has driven US unemployment levels—even among minority groups such as African-Americans and Hispanics—to record lows.

For several years now, unemployment has been holding steady at around 4%. The drop in the murder rate in particular seems in large part to be due to the waning of crack-cocaine-related “turf” wars that plagued the nation's inner-city neighbourhoods in the early 1990s. It is also likely that tough law-and-order measures, such as mandatory sentences for drug possession and for crimes involving guns—“hard time for armed crime” laws—have also had a big impact. Because of such laws, the US prison population, which was about 600 000 in 1990, has grown about 6·5% a year to an estimated 2 million today.


I am saying that Society awareness of the problem. people focusing more attention to the problem and educational programs, stiffer programs all factor in to what has been a succesful reduction in handgun crimes. the decline in handgun rates took about the same time to rise as fall. thats more indicative of a societal trend. I have no problems with the brady bill but the rate is the about the same now as it was in 1985. before the brady bill. Your argument is that there is less gun owners when there are actually more.

no, my argument is the small percentage of people who are blocked from buying a gun are the ones most likely to shoot people with it. That, and the waiting period allows others who are buying a gun out of anger a chance to calm down. Certainly more could be reasonably done to further improve the situation.

[MattyFos.]

This discussion is asinine.