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Thread: gun control

  1. #946
    Rising Star Tlyons's Avatar
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    Default Re: gun control

    9/11 truthers are crazy, but we need guns to prevent a tyrannical government takeover?

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    Default Re: gun control

    I am from Belgium, a small country locating right between france, holland and germany. Just like the rest of europe, guns a prohibited here. I don't know one person that owns one. However, I have lived in Dover Oh during one year, with a republican family that owned lots of guns.

    First, I am tired of hearing : foreigners don't know shit about america, they should just shut up. Dude come on, open your eyes. America isn't the best country in the world (neither is belgium nor any european country), America doesn't have everything right.

    When you come from Europe, as an 18 year old teenager and you find out that you are no longer allowed to buy a beer but you may purchase a gun a wal mart, I am telling you, there is something wrong with the way the law is structured.

    The media is constantly bringing up crimes, insecurity, rapes, theft, etc on the news, making everybody scared. I don't own a gun, and most of the time, I don't even lock my door and I have never felt insecured. Guns are responsible for this feeling of insecurity, it creates a tension between everybody : if you f*ck with me, I'll kill you. Dude seriously, we live in the 21st century, don't you think it's time to move on and actually believe that 99,9% of the people are sane and nice?
    I live in the heart of Brussels, the capital of Europe and one of the most cosmopolitan cities in the world, and I don't feel insecured... I would though, if I knew any drunkard on the street might have a gun in his pants.

    I know what is the holy second amendment, but dude, it was written like 150 years ago. The world has changed since then. You really think owning a gun is gonna to prevent china, russia from bombing the states if they want too? You really think owning a gun is still a way to defend yourself from your own government? Dude, seriously...

    Just look at the statistics : there are like 11 000 people killed by guns in the states, which is like 10 times what happens in europe. We live the same way : we wake up, go to work, have a car, eat junk food, watch TV, vote, get drunk,... so what is it thats so different, except for gun control?


    Just freaking prohibit them : guns are not a toy, guns don't make for a safer world, they contribute to the sense of insecurity. I love america, I have lots of american friends, but there is one thing that annoys me more than anything about this country : Americans believe their country is the best, has the best laws and the best economy. America isn't the land of the free anymore, everything is either illegal or immoral in America. You guys need to start second guessing yourselves in all honesty...

    I know the answer i am gonna get all too well : screw you and your socialist country. Well, have you ever think that socialism (not communism) might be a good thing? Socialism is tied to gun control, socialism is actually believing that everybody is worth the same and that we are all on the same page, no need to protect myself from the others, they are my friends...

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  4. #948
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    Default Re: gun control

    Americans starting a self loathing trend when Bush took office. I don't think anyone with any sort of sense of the world thinks we have it all right. Most people are aware of the fact that we're a country of consumers, idiocy, unwarranted arrogance and run by pop culture.
    Things Dave K was right about:

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    Anthony Bennett will be good
    Mike Brown will be a fucking idiot, again
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    And thats practically all. Wrong about almost everything else

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    Default Re: gun control

    No amount of weaponry is going to fight against tyranny. If the government wanted to turn on it's people and become a tyrannical state, they are going to do it without regard for what you are defending yourself with. The government will always have better technology than the average citizen. A Semi-automatic weapon is not going to deter any government force. When the US was hunting down Osama Bin Laden, none of the weapons that Osama's compound security had could stop a well trained military. The tyrannic government is not going to care about the 2nd amendment either.

    All of this is not reality anyway. There are checks and balances in the government that would prevent against tyranny. Not saying that it would never happen, but the chances of anything happening are very unlikely.

    It's a false sense of security if you think that you will be protected against tyranny. If you are going to protect your home against invaders, a hand gun is more than a sufficient form of protection.

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    Not a **** was given Prophet Named X's Avatar
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    Default Re: gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by shukle View Post
    I am from Belgium, a small country locating right between france, holland and germany. Just like the rest of europe, guns a prohibited here. I don't know one person that owns one. However, I have lived in Dover Oh during one year, with a republican family that owned lots of guns.

    First, I am tired of hearing : foreigners don't know shit about america, they should just shut up. Dude come on, open your eyes. America isn't the best country in the world (neither is belgium nor any european country), America doesn't have everything right.

    When you come from Europe, as an 18 year old teenager and you find out that you are no longer allowed to buy a beer but you may purchase a gun a wal mart, I am telling you, there is something wrong with the way the law is structured.

    The media is constantly bringing up crimes, insecurity, rapes, theft, etc on the news, making everybody scared. I don't own a gun, and most of the time, I don't even lock my door and I have never felt insecured. Guns are responsible for this feeling of insecurity, it creates a tension between everybody : if you f*ck with me, I'll kill you. Dude seriously, we live in the 21st century, don't you think it's time to move on and actually believe that 99,9% of the people are sane and nice?
    I live in the heart of Brussels, the capital of Europe and one of the most cosmopolitan cities in the world, and I don't feel insecured... I would though, if I knew any drunkard on the street might have a gun in his pants.

    I know what is the holy second amendment, but dude, it was written like 150 years ago. The world has changed since then. You really think owning a gun is gonna to prevent china, russia from bombing the states if they want too? You really think owning a gun is still a way to defend yourself from your own government? Dude, seriously...

    Just look at the statistics : there are like 11 000 people killed by guns in the states, which is like 10 times what happens in europe. We live the same way : we wake up, go to work, have a car, eat junk food, watch TV, vote, get drunk,... so what is it thats so different, except for gun control?


    Just freaking prohibit them : guns are not a toy, guns don't make for a safer world, they contribute to the sense of insecurity. I love america, I have lots of american friends, but there is one thing that annoys me more than anything about this country : Americans believe their country is the best, has the best laws and the best economy. America isn't the land of the free anymore, everything is either illegal or immoral in America. You guys need to start second guessing yourselves in all honesty...

    I know the answer i am gonna get all too well : screw you and your socialist country. Well, have you ever think that socialism (not communism) might be a good thing? Socialism is tied to gun control, socialism is actually believing that everybody is worth the same and that we are all on the same page, no need to protect myself from the others, they are my friends...
    I'm sorry you lived in Dover Ohio for a year.
    Why am I not allowed to have a center?

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  10. #951
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    Default Re: gun control

    So if we outlaw guns, are the criminals going to turn theirs in too?

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    Default Re: gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperSurge View Post
    So if we outlaw guns, are the criminals going to turn theirs in too?
    Of course they would "It's the law!" Duhhhh......

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  13. #953
    Gold Star Member Notorious's Avatar
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    Default Re: gun control

    We have had literally millions of people die over the course of our country's history to protect our rights. To throw that away for 372 rifle deaths (Not all are assault rifles) each year in this country of 330 million is absurd.

    To the european dude, you do realize the violent crime rate in Europe is higher than the U.S.? Sure you guys are more civilized about politics, but god damn you kill, trample and maim people over which sports teams they like. Not so sure you guys are the voice of reason in this debate.

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    Default Re: gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by Tlyons View Post
    9/11 truthers are crazy, but we need guns to prevent a tyrannical government takeover?
    What is tyranny? Would you agree that when We the people... becomes We the Government... we have an issue? When our elected officials have armed guards for themselves and their children but feel we don't need the same protection... is that tyranny? When we are bound by insider trading laws and the ones making policy are not... is that that tyranny? When elected officials have different healthcare and retirement than their "subjects"... is that tyranny yet?

    I was always under the assumption that tyranny was oppression... should government be able to live outside of the laws they hold you to? If so is that oppressive?

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    Default Re: gun control

    Something interesting I learned over the weekend. Gun control act of 68 was specifically created to address armed black panther members exercising their open carry right in public. The politicians at the time knew that dealers would not sell to blacks and so they legislated the change.

    Machine guns are still legal if you have a enough money. Without a law that wasn't even passed, but is enforced they would be accessible to everyone at a reasonable price. I wonder how the poor feel about the fact that more legislation will only ensure they have no rights to guns because they can't afford to own them. Only the extremely rich will have weapons and armed guards.

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    Default Re: gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by Notorious View Post
    Something interesting I learned over the weekend. Gun control act of 68 was specifically created to address armed black panther members exercising their open carry right in public. The politicians at the time knew that dealers would not sell to blacks and so they legislated the change.

    Machine guns are still legal if you have a enough money. Without a law that wasn't even passed, but is enforced they would be accessible to everyone at a reasonable price. I wonder how the poor feel about the fact that more legislation will only ensure they have no rights to guns because they can't afford to own them. Only the extremely rich will have weapons and armed guards.
    Man, edit post. 4 in a row talking to yourself is a bit much.
    Ass pennies

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    Default Re: gun control

    According to The Independant, the murder rate is 6 times higher in the US than in Germany, for exemple (56 / 1 000 000 vs 9 / 1 000 000), that's a pretty big drop off...


    "We have had literally millions of people die over the course of our country's history to protect our rights. To throw that away for 372 rifle deaths (Not all are assault rifles) each year in this country of 330 million is absurd."

    Millions of people fought so you could have the right to own a gun? I don't think so... And anyways, millions of people died fighting for Hitler, does that mean it was a good thing?


    "To the european dude, you do realize the violent crime rate in Europe is higher than the U.S.? Sure you guys are more civilized about politics, but god damn you kill, trample and maim people over which sports teams they like. Not so sure you guys are the voice of reason in this debate. "

    You seem to have a point there, violent crime rate is higher (though marginally) in Europe than in the US. Europe is also more cosmopolitan than the US, which has to account for something. As for soccer fans fighting each other, i call that addition by substraction, or darwinism, whatever you wanna call it. Let them fight each other, if thats what they want, it will make for less stupid people on earth...

    And yes, Dover was pretty darn lame! But I met some great people and still had a great time! I was there the year the Browns were 10-6, the Indians barely missed the World Series and the Cavs lost to Orlando in the ECF... It was a pretty epic year to get introduced to Cleveland Sports.

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    Default Re: gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by shukle View Post
    I am from Belgium, a small country locating right between france, holland and germany. Just like the rest of europe, guns a prohibited here. I don't know one person that owns one. However, I have lived in Dover Oh during one year, with a republican family that owned lots of guns.

    First, I am tired of hearing : foreigners don't know shit about america, they should just shut up. Dude come on, open your eyes. America isn't the best country in the world (neither is belgium nor any european country), America doesn't have everything right.

    When you come from Europe, as an 18 year old teenager and you find out that you are no longer allowed to buy a beer but you may purchase a gun a wal mart, I am telling you, there is something wrong with the way the law is structured.

    The media is constantly bringing up crimes, insecurity, rapes, theft, etc on the news, making everybody scared. I don't own a gun, and most of the time, I don't even lock my door and I have never felt insecured. Guns are responsible for this feeling of insecurity, it creates a tension between everybody : if you f*ck with me, I'll kill you. Dude seriously, we live in the 21st century, don't you think it's time to move on and actually believe that 99,9% of the people are sane and nice?
    I live in the heart of Brussels, the capital of Europe and one of the most cosmopolitan cities in the world, and I don't feel insecured... I would though, if I knew any drunkard on the street might have a gun in his pants.

    I know what is the holy second amendment, but dude, it was written like 150 years ago. The world has changed since then. You really think owning a gun is gonna to prevent china, russia from bombing the states if they want too? You really think owning a gun is still a way to defend yourself from your own government? Dude, seriously...

    Just look at the statistics : there are like 11 000 people killed by guns in the states, which is like 10 times what happens in europe. We live the same way : we wake up, go to work, have a car, eat junk food, watch TV, vote, get drunk,... so what is it thats so different, except for gun control?


    Just freaking prohibit them : guns are not a toy, guns don't make for a safer world, they contribute to the sense of insecurity. I love america, I have lots of american friends, but there is one thing that annoys me more than anything about this country : Americans believe their country is the best, has the best laws and the best economy. America isn't the land of the free anymore, everything is either illegal or immoral in America. You guys need to start second guessing yourselves in all honesty...

    I know the answer i am gonna get all too well : screw you and your socialist country. Well, have you ever think that socialism (not communism) might be a good thing? Socialism is tied to gun control, socialism is actually believing that everybody is worth the same and that we are all on the same page, no need to protect myself from the others, they are my friends...
    I respect you coming in and sharing your viewpoint, its always good to see things through a different lens. Let me ask you a few questions though:

    1. How diverse is Brussels? In terms of ethnicity, culture, and income levels, what is a realistic range the average person will encounter on a daily basis. Do people tend to live in ethnic-centered communities, or is there a blend?
    2. Does Belgium have a standing army? If so, what age do people usually enter in? Is it voluntary, or required based on educational merit?
    3. When did Belgium outlaw guns? Has the rate of violence and homicide increased, decreased or stay the same since the laws have been passed?

    I honestly know very little about Belgium, either their past or present.
    I've been nothing but complementary of Weeden.
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    Default Re: gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by shukle View Post
    According to The Independant, the murder rate is 6 times higher in the US than in Germany, for exemple (56 / 1 000 000 vs 9 / 1 000 000), that's a pretty big drop off...
    Germany is the crown jewel of europe right now. Seems like cherry picking to me. The have the best economy in the region of course they're not as violent.


    Quote Originally Posted by shukle View Post
    Millions of people fought so you could have the right to own a gun? I don't think so... And anyways, millions of people died fighting for Hitler, does that mean it was a good thing?
    Yes they did. Our soldiers swear an oath to our constitution. Not understanding you to expect that, but thats the oath they take.


    Quote Originally Posted by shukle View Post
    You seem to have a point there, violent crime rate is higher (though marginally) in Europe than in the US. Europe is also more cosmopolitan than the US, which has to account for something. As for soccer fans fighting each other, i call that addition by substraction, or darwinism, whatever you wanna call it. Let them fight each other, if thats what they want, it will make for less stupid people on earth...
    Yeah all we care about over here is being cosmopolitan, so you win there. I just find it funny you pointing out all the bad things on our news when your continent is worse.

    Quote Originally Posted by shukle View Post
    And yes, Dover was pretty darn lame! But I met some great people and still had a great time! I was there the year the Browns were 10-6, the Indians barely missed the World Series and the Cavs lost to Orlando in the ECF... It was a pretty epic year to get introduced to Cleveland Sports.
    That was an amazing year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malt View Post
    I respect you coming in and sharing your viewpoint, its always good to see things through a different lens. Let me ask you a few questions though:

    1. How diverse is Brussels? In terms of ethnicity, culture, and income levels, what is a realistic range the average person will encounter on a daily basis. Do people tend to live in ethnic-centered communities, or is there a blend?
    2. Does Belgium have a standing army? If so, what age do people usually enter in? Is it voluntary, or required based on educational merit?
    3. When did Belgium outlaw guns? Has the rate of violence and homicide increased, decreased or stay the same since the laws have been passed?

    I honestly know very little about Belgium, either their past or present.
    1. Brussels, as I said, is one of the most cosmopolitan cities in the world. I wont try to find statistics, but you basicly hear about 5-6 different languages everyday. Its mostly french, dutch, arab, portuguese, spanish, russian, polish and whatever they speak in pakistan. It's the capital of Europe, so there is a huge variety : wealthy politicians / poor immigrants. I have to say to communities tend to stay together, but its mostly Belgians (even though belgians are divided between french and dutch speaking) vs Immigrants. So the immigrants are all blended, while we tend to stay together? The average income is 1400€/month, while social security is about 700€ a month

    2. We do have an army, it is voluntary but I gotta say, nobody really cares about it, we almost never hear about it on the news and I would be shocked if they employed more the 20 000 people. Sometimes we hear about belgium sending 300 soldiers there, 60 there,... Honestly, the army is a joke here, but we like it that way.

    3. I couldn't tell you, as far as I know, they have always been outlawed. I don't think it has ever been legal to own a gun (any gun, even handguns) in belgium. You may have a license for hunting, but you can only have hunting rifles then (don't ask me, dont know shit about guns)

    If you wanna learn a little about belgium, here is a short movie that I thought was pretty well done : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJVd6qp7Fqg

    Its not shokcing you don't know about belgium, the country is one fifth the size of ohio (yet, we have 11 million people living there). Nobody outside belgium really knows anything about us... Except we have the best beers in the world, by far! If you havent heard about it, you better try it now, I found some while I was in the US.



    Germany is the crown jewel of europe right now. Seems like cherry picking to me. The have the best economy in the region of course they're not as violent.
    They are, but I doubt the crime rate varies that much from one western europe country to another, except for the UK who like it their way...

    "Yes they did. Our soldiers swear an oath to our constitution. Not understanding you to expect that, but thats the oath they take."
    This is cherry picking for me... Nobody ever fought so you could have a gun, they fought so you could write your own constitution. My argument still stands : people fighting for something doesn't make it any better. Your army went to Irak as well, that didn't end too well, except Bush did get all the oil he wanted.


    Yeah all we care about over here is being cosmopolitan, so you win there. I just find it funny you pointing out all the bad things on our news when your continent is worse
    Not quite sure I get your sarcasm... The more cosmopolitan a city, the more likely the crimes. As for our media system, it's pretty darn awful as well, never said the opposite. Europe and america are basicly the same thing, culturally speaking, America is just everything times 5. We have 20 channels, you have 500, we have big cars, you have huge cars,...

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