Page 7 of 9 FirstFirst ... 56789 LastLast
Results 91 to 105 of 121
  1. #91
    Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    10,612
    Thanks
    6,591
    Thanked 11,772 Times in 4,109 Posts

    Default Re: Cavs inquired on Love, Aldridge and Gasols?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fake Jigo View Post
    But giving up not only Andy AND your last two picks AND future 1st's seems like an awful idea...even if Love is great for fantasy basketball.
    Agreed. I've said half a dozen times that, if we give up literally every asset we have to get Kevin Love, we're basically just Minnesota East.

  2. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Jack Brickman For This Useful Post:


  3. #92
    Golden Shower Member Lee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Scottsdale
    Posts
    12,764
    Thanks
    4,539
    Thanked 7,418 Times in 2,193 Posts

    Default Re: Cavs inquired on Love, Aldridge and Gasols?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Brickman View Post
    Agreed. I've said half a dozen times that, if we give up literally every asset we have to get Kevin Love, we're basically just Minnesota East.
    The formula is 3 stars or 2 super stars. The question becomes is Kyrie a super star (or about to be one), is Love a super star? If the answer is yest to both of them, you make the trade. How many players in the entire NBA would you take over Love? 10? 15? How about Kyrie? Same? That would mean you have 2 of the top 15 players in the nba and they are both young. That is the makings of a contender in 2 years.


    That said, I dont see us getting Love in a trade.

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to Lee For This Useful Post:


  5. #93
    There go the Cavs! CleveRocks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    MidState
    Posts
    4,007
    Thanks
    537
    Thanked 925 Times in 432 Posts

    Default Re: Cavs inquired on Love, Aldridge and Gasols?

    Quote Originally Posted by Triumph36 View Post
    lol, if drummond pans out then fuck yes it was the failing of every gm in the top ten (save for the hornets, for obv reasons).

    the damn job of a gm is to decide the legitimacy of certain red flags. just because some scout (team-employed or not), some draft website, or whoever claims this or that true does not make it so.

    the pistons coaching staff has been raving about drummond's work ethic and motor, which also wouldn't be possible if he didn't love the game. everyone who said those were reasons not to draft him is left looking like an idiot.

    leaving a team that has little (in howard's case) to no (in lbj's case) future doesn't mean that player lacks "maturity"

    it's been said a million times here and elsewhere, but if you actually give a player a reason to stay he very likely will ffs.
    First of all, if you are making the case that either Dwight Howard or Lebron James behaved with any kind of maturity regarding thier respective exits, I think you are smoking something.

    In Lebron's case, the Cavs FO gave him lots of reason to stay, and but for an inexplicable meltdown on his part, he might have had his ring two years earlier, but instead, he chose to go to south beach. If he had been at all interested in making it work in Cleveland there was nothing the Cavs would not have done to keep him, but he never talked to the FO. He had made his "decision" with his buds, and he handled it for maximum Lebronomania.

    As for Howard, his situation was worse than Lebron's. But he handled it terribly.

    In any case, what I said was that Drummond's maturity was an additional risk, even if he is able to be successful on court. that is not to say either Irving or Waiters is not a risk, but it is my perception that both of them have a more mature attitude. I could be wrong, but all I am saying is that this is something you take into account when you are in rebuild. I was there when Charlotte (Then Hornets) drafted Johnson, Mourning and Kendall Gill. Lots of talent, but personailty clash city. We have drawn comparisons of our new backcourt to Thomas/Dumars on the play style similarities, but part of what worked for that team was the personal mesh between the players. Kyrie and Dions have to fit hand and glove for the team to work. This also needs to be considered when we add players to the Alchemy. Tristan fits, Zeller fits. Whoever else we pick up, but it Shabazz or Poythress or Laurence Bowers, or any free agent we bring has to fit.

    Make a list of players drafted top ten in 2012 and 2011. Rank order them in terms of work ethic and professional attitude. TT will rank higher on that list than his talent evaluation. Barnes ( and Drummond for that matter ), lower. There are a lot of vectors that go into the success of a given player, and even more that go into the success of a team. Attitude and maturity are two of the many.
    We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit - Aristotle as quoted by Shaq..

  6. #94
    Or Also Schtick The Oi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    30,323
    Thanks
    26,940
    Thanked 30,670 Times in 9,775 Posts

    Default Re: Cavs inquired on Love, Aldridge and Gasols?

    Quote Originally Posted by JMcCurry08 View Post
    Love hasnt proven to be a winner because he plays for Minnesota.
    Nope. It's inexcusable to win as few games as he has in Minnesota with him putting up the numbers he has. LeBron is prpbably the most recent case of a player doing more with less. LeBron was surrounded with equally awful talent his first couple years in the league and still won games.

  7. #95
    Rising Back Up chrisrich91's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    7,137
    Thanks
    8,438
    Thanked 10,855 Times in 2,749 Posts

    Default Re: Cavs inquired on Love, Aldridge and Gasols?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fake Jigo View Post
    Nope. It's inexcusable to win as few games as he has in Minnesota with him putting up the numbers he has. LeBron is prpbably the most recent case of a player doing more with less. LeBron was surrounded with equally awful talent his first couple years in the league and still won games.
    I understand where you're coming from, but you really must look at position. Love's teams could and should have won more, but at the end of the day he is a PF who is putting up crazy points and rebounds. He's doing his job for the most part (you can knock his defense and leadership if you'd like). LeBron, although listed as a SF, has always been a PG. It is a point guard or point forward's job to run the team and make players around him better. From that position, players are able to have a more direct outcome on wins or losses.

    Again, he definitely should have won way more games, especially last season, but that horrendous organization and his position as a PF cannot be overlooked.

    But at the end of the day, from your original post...scenario A is out the window and scenario B is tricky, but we are the Cleveland Cavaliers and we will not even be close to pulling off a Kevin Love trade anyway.

  8. #96
    Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    10,612
    Thanks
    6,591
    Thanked 11,772 Times in 4,109 Posts

    Default Re: Cavs inquired on Love, Aldridge and Gasols?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    The formula is 3 stars or 2 super stars. The question becomes is Kyrie a super star (or about to be one), is Love a super star? If the answer is yest to both of them, you make the trade. How many players in the entire NBA would you take over Love? 10? 15? How about Kyrie? Same? That would mean you have 2 of the top 15 players in the nba and they are both young. That is the makings of a contender in 2 years.


    That said, I dont see us getting Love in a trade.
    1. I consider Love a star. Superstar? Not really. You can't call a guy a superstar when he hasn't made the playoffs yet.

    2. The question for me is, if we trade everything we have for Love, where the hell do we get that third star? We'd have no assets (except for Kevin Love and Kyrie) with which to trade for any additional players.

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrich91 View Post
    I understand where you're coming from, but you really must look at position. Love's teams could and should have won more, but at the end of the day he is a PF who is putting up crazy points and rebounds. He's doing his job for the most part (you can knock his defense and leadership if you'd like). LeBron, although listed as a SF, has always been a PG. It is a point guard or point forward's job to run the team and make players around him better. From that position, players are able to have a more direct outcome on wins or losses.
    I don't see the logic there. Superstars carry bad teams to the playoffs all the time, regardless of position. Look at Kevin Garnett's Minny teams. He carried some truly horrible shit to the playoffs multiple times. Look at Chris Bosh. He single-handedly made Toronto respectable. Both of those guys played the same position as Kevin Love, and they are far from the only two examples.

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to Jack Brickman For This Useful Post:


  10. #97
    The Canadian
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Parma, OH
    Posts
    1,386
    Thanks
    2,315
    Thanked 513 Times in 191 Posts

    Default Re: Cavs inquired on Love, Aldridge and Gasols?

    This is fun and all, but I believe that Dion is absolutely not available in trade, and we are looking for a team that values Andy as the missing piece for a championship run. Trading him to Minnesota makes little to no sense so the Gasol 3-way idea is a pretty good one. I just really, really hope we do not give up Waiters in a deal, I really think he is going to be one of the top 10-15 players in the league one day.

  11. #98
    1234567890 Numbers Guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Detroit
    Posts
    3,423
    Thanks
    862
    Thanked 1,619 Times in 519 Posts

    Default Re: Cavs inquired on Love, Aldridge and Gasols?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fake Jigo View Post
    Nope. It's inexcusable to win as few games as he has in Minnesota with him putting up the numbers he has. LeBron is prpbably the most recent case of a player doing more with less. LeBron was surrounded with equally awful talent his first couple years in the league and still won games.
    2010-11 is the first season he played more than 30 minutes per game. Rambis coached Love his first few seasons in the league and had the guy locked to the bench and did not give him the freedom to shoot threes. The first Wolves team to actually have any talent on it and had a coach.. was last years, and that team really wasn't working with much. The Wolves were poised to make the playoffs before Rubio went down and not soon after, Love. With everyone getting back into the groove and upgraded talent, the Wolves are on track to make the playoffs this year.

    Not Love's fault.. nor is he LeBron.. horrible comparison.

  12. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Numbers Guy For This Useful Post:


  13. #99
    A Dream of Spring CardiacCavs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    3,714
    Thanks
    2,194
    Thanked 1,853 Times in 668 Posts

    Default Re: Cavs inquired on Love, Aldridge and Gasols?

    To me, superstars are two way players. They are fantastic both at offense and defense (or they can at least hold their own on the defensive end). Players like Lebron, Wade, Kobe, Garnett (at a younger age), Cp3. Neither Love, nor Kyrie can claim to be good defensive players. At this point, in my opinion neither are superstars, and they won't be unless they improve defensively.

    That is one fear I have in pairing Kyrie with Love. I am speaking hypothetically of course, since there is a very slim chance that we can actually trade for him, but our two best players would be terrible at defense.

  14. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to CardiacCavs For This Useful Post:


  15. #100
    All Star Giambiwannabe7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    3,132
    Thanks
    2,671
    Thanked 2,014 Times in 918 Posts

    Default Re: Cavs inquired on Love, Aldridge and Gasols?

    Quote Originally Posted by Numbers Guy View Post
    2010-11 is the first season he played more than 30 minutes per game. Rambis coached Love his first few seasons in the league and had the guy locked to the bench and did not give him the freedom to shoot threes. The first Wolves team to actually have any talent on it and had a coach.. was last years, and that team really wasn't working with much. The Wolves were poised to make the playoffs before Rubio went down and not soon after, Love. With everyone getting back into the groove and upgraded talent, the Wolves are on track to make the playoffs this year.

    Not Love's fault.. nor is he LeBron.. horrible comparison.
    Agreed. I know Minni is the butt of many a joke, but I really think the circus master, Kahn, is on the right track this time around. I'm not saying they are a contender yet, but they certainly have upgraded their talent and coaching whilst their young star has progressed. They've become much more aggressive in pursuit of the pieces they need to take the next step. Can Roy stay healthy? I doubt it, but I think he's a key since they missed out on Batum and Josh Howard got injured, who would have been a great fit on this roster. Buddinger isn't the answer as a starter, so I wouldn't be surprised to see them active around the deadline in hopes of landing a guy who can fill this role.

  16. #101
    All Star mAo_mAo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Mother Earth
    Posts
    4,288
    Thanks
    2,059
    Thanked 1,954 Times in 841 Posts

    Default Re: Cavs inquired on Love, Aldridge and Gasols?

    I agree with Jigo. Kevin Love has not exhibited winning basketball in his career in Mini. Most of the winnings came with Rubio on the team. If he really is the BEST PF in the league then he should at least make his team competitive for an 8th seed in the west.
    When in doubt, step up the defense

  17. The Following User Says Thank You to mAo_mAo For This Useful Post:


  18. #102
    Real Cavs Fan AuxiliaryPie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    2,188
    Thanks
    3,657
    Thanked 1,919 Times in 699 Posts

    Default Re: Cavs inquired on Love, Aldridge and Gasols?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Brickman View Post
    2. The question for me is, if we trade everything we have for Love, where the hell do we get that third star? We'd have no assets (except for Kevin Love and Kyrie) with which to trade for any additional players.
    my thinking is if we have Kyrie (top 5 PG at only 20 years old) and Love (the best PF at only 24 years old) and cap space, we have the alure to get a guy like Mayo or Iggy to sign via free agency..yeah im definitely an optimist, but it certainly would be a possibility with KI and Love..not to mention what pans out with Dion or Zeller (assuming we lose TT to get Love)

  19. #103
    Or Also Schtick The Oi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    30,323
    Thanks
    26,940
    Thanked 30,670 Times in 9,775 Posts

    Default Re: Cavs inquired on Love, Aldridge and Gasols?

    Quote Originally Posted by Numbers Guy View Post
    2010-11 is the first season he played more than 30 minutes per game. Rambis coached Love his first few seasons in the league and had the guy locked to the bench and did not give him the freedom to shoot threes. The first Wolves team to actually have any talent on it and had a coach.. was last years, and that team really wasn't working with much. The Wolves were poised to make the playoffs before Rubio went down and not soon after, Love. With everyone getting back into the groove and upgraded talent, the Wolves are on track to make the playoffs this year.

    Not Love's fault.. nor is he LeBron.. horrible comparison.
    While you're here straw-manning my argument, Brickman and mao took care of it for me before I had to.

    I'm not comparing him to LeBron in any other regard than that LeBron could carry his team to the playoffs, even if either or both of them were being used incorrectly. If Love was as great as some say he is, he'd have gotten off the bench by demonstrating the leadership and ability to excel and lead on any team. Clearly he didn't demonstrate that or even a shitty coach would have ridden him to results other than high lottery picks every year.

    And it's not like he's playing 8mpg in garbage time either. He's been out there long enough his entire career to make an impact on the game.

    I don't know if you're just a massive Love fan (which I am), or what...but his team's finishes are inexcusable for a guy that some want to describe as superstar caliber.

    So if you don't like the comparison in terms of whether he can lead at that position...take Bosh or Garnett.

    And in any case...don't bother arguing that his team's finishes are acceptable or that it's not largely on him because I'm not going to waste time on it. It's obvious.

    If you want to argue how much of it is his fault, the quality of his teammates compared to LeBron, Bosh, Garnett or other guys who kept teams competitive by their fifth years in the league, whether he's compatible with Kyrie, what the Cavs should give up, etc...I'm on board. But what you're trying to pin me into is silly.
    Last edited by The Oi; 12-26-2012 at 02:21 PM.

  20. #104
    Redeux FiveThous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Raleigh NC
    Posts
    2,278
    Thanks
    2,527
    Thanked 1,274 Times in 599 Posts

    Default Re: Cavs inquired on Love, Aldridge and Gasols?

    Quote Originally Posted by CardiacCavs View Post
    To me, superstars are two way players. They are fantastic both at offense and defense (or they can at least hold their own on the defensive end). Players like Lebron, Wade, Kobe, Garnett (at a younger age), Cp3. Neither Love, nor Kyrie can claim to be good defensive players. At this point, in my opinion neither are superstars, and they won't be unless they improve defensively.

    That is one fear I have in pairing Kyrie with Love. I am speaking hypothetically of course, since there is a very slim chance that we can actually trade for him, but our two best players would be terrible at defense.
    I definitely agree with these sentiments, you have to be strong on both sides or you will never reach superstar status in the NBA.
    "I'd rather fight somebody else on the other team than one of my teammates," Waiters said after practice. "That's the way it is. That's the way I was brought up. I feel as though we say we're family, then we're a family and I'm going to look out for you to the best of my abilities. All the other stuff is foolishness." - Dion Waiters

  21. #105
    Birthing All-Stars Free Agency God's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Space
    Posts
    4,332
    Thanks
    8,397
    Thanked 4,575 Times in 1,555 Posts

    Default Re: Cavs inquired on Love, Aldridge and Gasols?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldin Brown View Post
    I'd give them Andy, Tristan, some filler, our 1st rounder this year and maybe an additional 1st rounder. That's about all I'd be willing to give up and I doubt they take that deal. I like Kevin Love, but not enough to gut our entire roster and give away all of our assets.
    I'd do anything for Love, but I won't do that.

  22. The Following 13 Users Say Thank You to Free Agency God For This Useful Post:


Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •