View Poll Results: How many wins will the Cavs have at the end of the season?

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  • 27 or less wins

    18 43.90%
  • 28 wins

    8 19.51%
  • 29 wins

    6 14.63%
  • 30 wins

    6 14.63%
  • 31 wins

    2 4.88%
  • 32 or more wins

    1 2.44%
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  1. #316
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    Default Re: Tankapalooza 2012-2013 Edition!

    Quote Originally Posted by Douglar View Post
    I wouldn't say that we are advocating tanking. I think we are just pointing out the benefits that come from an unfortunate sitaution called "Rebuilding".
    Chris Grant is walking a fine line between rebuilding and tanking. The OP of this thread (aka "Tank") and some others are clearly and unabashedly promoting outright tanking for picks.

    I'd make more anti-tank arguments in the thread, but it would be off-topic. lol

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  3. #317
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    Default Re: Tankapalooza 2012-2013 Edition!

    Quote Originally Posted by Douglar View Post
    I wouldn't say that we are advocating tanking. I think we are just pointing out the benefits that come from an unfortunate sitaution called "Rebuilding".

    The benefits are:
    • high draft picks
    • first dibs at any player on waivers
    • extra playing time for developing players
    • a willingness by the front office to trade short term assets into long term assets
    • an optimism about the future that fans get when they suffer through scores of painfull losses each season
    • photoshop practice


    Or is that too much spin there?

    Thank the Tank!!
    I think I must be missing something. Isn't there only 15 guys on an NBA squad?

    I'm still trying to figure out some of your guys mentality on this site. People are complaining that Livingston is getting to much playing time and Selby can't develop without playing time. And Speights and Ellington are getting to much playing time and putting us in to good of a position to win. That we need to get rid of them now so we can develop our youngs and get a higher draft pick in a rebuilding year. I'm pretty sure Livingston is only like what? 27? and Speights is 25? Ellington can't be much older than that. (To lazy to look it up).

    Seems to me we have pieces to the puzzle already (meaning these guys). I don't see how we are going to keep and develop Selby while also keeping and developing the 250 draft picks we have in the next three years. By the time they are "developed" Kyrie wlll be 25. Are you all then gonna say he needs to sit so we can develop all these draft picks?

    Just when exactly do you all think we'll be ready to start playing games to win?

    We really can't get that much younger.

    And exactly what is a short term or long term asset anyway? I'd like an explanation.

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  5. #318
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    Default Re: Tankapalooza 2012-2013 Edition!

    Quote Originally Posted by miller810 View Post
    I don't see how we are going to keep and develop Selby while also keeping and developing the 250 draft picks we have in the next three years. By the time they are "developed" Kyrie wlll be 25. Are you all then gonna say he needs to sit so we can develop all these draft picks?
    From what I understand, Selby isn't considered a long term piece. He's just a contract that the Cavs had to take to get the draft pick.

    So about those draft picks. What you said is like saying "Why do you have so many packs of smokes under your prison bunk? You couldn't possibly smoke them all." Sure those Newport Kings have a shelf life, but they have value even if you don't smoke. Draft picks are the currency that gets stuff done in the NBA. Suppose you are a GM and a potential all-star player shows up on the trading block, like the next James Harden. If you can add a mid-upper first round pick into your offer, you're going to the front of the line. No draft picks? Go to the back of the line with the ugly people. If you notice, Grant seems to be trading for draft picks with the longest possible shelf life he can get.

    So having a war chest of draft picks doesn't mean that the Cavs are going to get younger. It could mean that the Cavs will have leverage on any trade they want to make for the next 4 years.
    Last edited by Douglar; 02-12-2013 at 09:07 PM.


  6. #319
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    Default Re: Tankapalooza 2012-2013 Edition!

    Quote Originally Posted by Douglar View Post
    From what I understand, Selby isn't considered a long term piece. He's just a contract that the Cavs had to take to get the draft pick.

    So about those draft picks. What you said is like saying "Why do you have so many packs of smokes under your prison bunk? You couldn't possibly smoke them all." Sure those Newport Kings have a shelf life, but they have value even if you don't smoke. Draft picks are the currency that gets stuff done in the NBA. Suppose you are a GM and a potential all-star player shows up on the trading block, like the next James Harden. If you can add a mid-upper first round pick into your offer, you're going to the front of the line. No draft picks? Go to the back of the line with the ugly people. If you notice, Grant seems to be trading for draft picks with the longest possible shelf life he can get.

    So having a war chest of draft picks doesn't mean that the Cavs are going to get younger. It could mean that the Cavs will have leverage on any trade they want to make for the next 4 years.
    I know that, but I'm talking about the people who want all these picks to actually use them. There is only so much room for players on your team.

    I'm all for trading for all-stars. But they need to get off of their ass and do it. Harden would have looked pretty good in the wine and gold...don't u think?

  7. #320
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    Default Re: Tankapalooza 2012-2013 Edition!

    I'm not too concerned about getting a top pick. There's a few players at the top that are solid but not super stars. after that it's murky. The guy drafted at ten can be just as good as the guy drafted at 5.

  8. #321
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    Default Re: Tankapalooza 2012-2013 Edition!

    Quote Originally Posted by miller810 View Post
    I know that, but I'm talking about the people who want all these picks to actually use them. There is only so much room for players on your team.

    I'm all for trading for all-stars. But they need to get off of their ass and do it. Harden would have looked pretty good in the wine and gold...don't u think?
    I don't think we had the assets to do that deal at the time. Houston gave OKC Kevin Martin (a guy who is capable of scoring 20 points on any given night and is a lights-out shooter), a guaranteed lottery pick, and young talent. We could not have matched that deal even if we wanted to, so pretending otherwise is irrelevant.

    And All-Stars aren't exactly traded every day. You have to be patient, hoard your assets, and then strike when one finally becomes available. People act like guys like Harden are traded every day on here and Grant is an utter failure for not being able to trade for one. That's not the case. They're not easy to acquire, and only by stockpiling the assets that Grant has do we give ourselves a fair chance next time one goes on the market.

  9. #322
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    Default Re: Tankapalooza 2012-2013 Edition!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Brickman View Post
    I don't think we had the assets to do that deal at the time. Houston gave OKC Kevin Martin (a guy who is capable of scoring 20 points on any given night and is a lights-out shooter), a guaranteed lottery pick, and young talent. We could not have matched that deal even if we wanted to, so pretending otherwise is irrelevant.

    And All-Stars aren't exactly traded every day. You have to be patient, hoard your assets, and then strike when one finally becomes available. People act like guys like Harden are traded every day on here and Grant is an utter failure for not being able to trade for one. That's not the case. They're not easy to acquire, and only by stockpiling the assets that Grant has do we give ourselves a fair chance next time one goes on the market.
    Harden would've been a waste here. A THIRD ball-dominant guard is the last thing we need. We already have two. We need some magicians off the ball in order for this team to be successful.

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  11. #323
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    Default Re: Tankapalooza 2012-2013 Edition!

    The Cavs were interested in Bynum. I'm sure the interest would have ended as soon as he had taken a physical here, but nonetheless, they were heavily in the mix to land that all-star (at least in the preliminary stages). If Kevin Love became available, I'm sure the Cavs would have interest (they already get linked to him). Sources around the league were surprised when the Cavs no longer had interest in Gay this year. That leads me to believe that the Cavs are seen as a team favored to land an all-star via trade. They don't grow on trees.

  12. #324
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    Default Re: Tankapalooza 2012-2013 Edition!

    With Noel's knee exploding I've lost a lot of interest in the tank. Noel was far and away the guy I wanted the most. If not him then I guess I'd want Bazz or McLemore.
    Ass pennies

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  14. #325
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    Default Re: Tankapalooza 2012-2013 Edition!

    Quote Originally Posted by miller810 View Post
    I know that, but I'm talking about the people who want all these picks to actually use them. There is only so much room for players on your team.
    Grant has sort of set the precedent that he doesn't want to draft more than 2 rookies at a time - even when we have had the room on the roster, picks, and cap space to take on more. His first draft class was a pair of one and doners. His second class had a 2yr and a 4yr player. He's already been involved in talks that might have brought us Bynum.

    There seems to be a trend forming ...

  15. #326
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    Default Re: Tankapalooza 2012-2013 Edition!

    Quote Originally Posted by B3team View Post
    Everyone who says that you don't need a top pick to get a great player are using terrible logic by bringing up past hidden gems. I used to play a lot of Texas holdem. Sometimes, a guy would go "all in" with 2-7 pre-flop. A guy with pocket aces would call him, but the 2-7 would get lucky and end up winning the pot. After the hand, the idiot with 2-7 would say something along the lines of "I guess it was the right decision- any 2 cards can win ". Of course, the good players never did this stuff because they understood that the goal is to give yourself the best chance of winning, not hoping to get lucky on a 1 out of 100 chance. I think we may have some bad poker players in this threads discussion.
    Horrible reference with no stack sizes and pot odds, but I see where you are going.

  16. #327
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    Default Re: Tankapalooza 2012-2013 Edition!

    Brian Windhorst ‏@WindhorstESPN

    Magic's Hedo Turkuoglu suspended 20 games for violating NBA's drug policy.


    Turns out at least 2 of the guys from the Magic who beat us in the Eastern Conference championhsips were cheating. Things could have been different.

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  18. #328
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    Default Re: Tankapalooza 2012-2013 Edition!

    Quote Originally Posted by catfish View Post
    Brian Windhorst ‏@WindhorstESPN

    Magic's Hedo Turkuoglu suspended 20 games for violating NBA's drug policy.

    Turns out at least 2 of the guys from the Magic who beat us in the Eastern Conference championhsips were cheating. Things could have been different.
    He has played so badly that it would have been in the Magic's tanking interest to shield him from this. This may injure their tank.

  19. #329
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    Default Re: Tankapalooza 2012-2013 Edition!

    Quote Originally Posted by catfish View Post
    Turns out at least 2 of the guys from the Magic who beat us in the Eastern Conference championhsips were cheating. Things could have been different.
    Sure, but to be fair, we'd have to subtract any Cavs who were cheating as well.

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  21. #330
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    Default Re: Tankapalooza 2012-2013 Edition!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    Sure, but to be fair, we'd have to subtract any Cavs who were cheating as well.
    So LeBron then, or was that just a mole on his neck?
    Ass pennies

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