Browns hire Rob Chudzinski

[Doc Shakalou]

I'm saying, I don't care if he's made mediocre progress with terrible teams. He might have inherited crap, but he didn't turn that crap into gems. Last is last. Saying that the numbers kinda indicate that he might have been able to improve a pass rush that still ended up last, is ridiculous. JAX changed from a 3/4 to a 4/3 in 2010, so of course 2009 sack totals would be low, and in 2010 they should go up even with wrong personnel. Since then, they're in the same place.

And some players simply can't be turned into gems. Not everyone is cut out for it. I get it, they were last. But it's not like the D-line was the only problem they had. That whole team sucked a big one. The line, the linebackers, the QB and offense, there were no redeemable qualities to that team.

I'm not saying I'm excited about the hire. What I'm saying is I don't necessarily think his numbers in Jacksonville are indicative of what he's capable of. I don't know enough about him to make an educated assessment. I infer that you're in the same situation as me. Looking at stats alone is not enough to tell the whole story. Chud was great in 07 and in Carolina. He was awful in 08. That's largely because of injuries and the guys he had playing for him sucked. Does that mean he's a bad coach because he wasn't able to turn them into gems?

P.S. Sorry Wuck, not sure why I thought it was you instead of MoFlo that I was quoting.

[MoFlo]

I'm saying, I don't care if he's made mediocre progress with terrible teams. He might have inherited crap, but he didn't turn that crap into gems. Last is last. Saying that the numbers kinda indicate that he might have been able to improve a pass rush that still ended up last, is ridiculous. JAX changed from a 3/4 to a 4/3 in 2010, so of course 2009 sack totals would be low, and in 2010 they should go up even with wrong personnel. Since then, they're in the same place.

Wait, what?

Pass rush has a lot more to do than just the D-Line. The linebackers rush the passer too, for example. Theirs had all of 3 1/2 sacks this past season. That's horrid.

His DL has 16 1/2 sacks this season.

To compare: Denver, who tied for the NFL lead with 52 sacks, had just 21 from their DL. 32 more sacks than the Jags, yet their DL had just 4 1/2 more than JAX's DL had.

I'd say he got pretty good production out of them.

[kiji]

Von Miller is a linebacker in Denver's scheme, of course their LB's make sacks, that's what they do in that defense. Not what they do in Jacksonville. I think naked, last place Wendy's guy hasn't made his guys better. Victim of circumstance or not, he hasn't taken anyone and molded them into even mediocre players, in 3 years. I can't understand the hire, obviously you think it's a good one. Apparently, nothing is going to change that.

[Doc Shakalou]

Von Miller is a linebacker in Denver's scheme, of course their LB's make sacks, that's what they do in that defense. Not what they do in Jacksonville. I think naked, last place Wendy's guy hasn't made his guys better. Victim of circumstance or not, he hasn't taken anyone and molded them into even mediocre players, in 3 years. I can't understand the hire, obviously you think it's a good one. Apparently, nothing is going to change that.

You're just being stubborn now. If the players are terrible you aren't going to be able to coach them well, no matter how good of a coach you are. The thing is, Jacksonville may have been the worst in the sack area, but this guy wasn't their DC. He was the D-line coach. It's not fair to judge him because their linebackers were terrible. 16.5 sacks from that god awful group isn't horrible.

Frankly I think you're just against it because of the Wendy's thing, I honestly think you don't know enough about him to make a rational decision about the hire. I don't either, which is why I'm in wait and see mode.

[Pyro]

Excited for the press conference in the morning. Should be good.

[kiji]

You're just being stubborn now. If the players are terrible you aren't going to be able to coach them well, no matter how good of a coach you are. The thing is, Jacksonville may have been the worst in the sack area, but this guy wasn't their DC. He was the D-line coach. It's not fair to judge him because their linebackers were terrible. 16.5 sacks from that god awful group isn't horrible.

Frankly I think you're just against it because of the Wendy's thing, I honestly think you don't know enough about him to make a rational decision about the hire. I don't either, which is why I'm in wait and see mode.

Good coaches make their players better. I never judged him based on the linebackers. In fact I said the comparison to Denver was invalid. I said the hire was a head-scratcher, and can't understand it. He was the DLine coach of a team that couldn't get to the Qb, he has a bad and incredibly embarrassing personal history, hasn't developed any of his players. I have trouble believing that he's the best guy available.

[Doc Shakalou]

Good coaches make their players better. I never judged him based on the linebackers. In fact I said the comparison to Denver was invalid. I said the hire was a head-scratcher, and can't understand it. He was the DLine coach of a team that couldn't get to the Qb, he has a bad and incredibly embarrassing personal history, hasn't developed any of his players. I have trouble believing that he's the best guy available.

Yes good coaches make their players better. My point was that I doubt anyone could have made that Jacksonville line better. They have some awful, awful talent.

And yes you did judge him based on the linebackers. You were judging him because of Jacksonville being dead last in sacks. While that's true, a big part of the reason they were dead last was that they only got 3.5 sacks from their linebackers. I've been reading Jacksonville forums trying to get a beat on this guy. They rarely blitzed and just rushed 4 while dropping everyone else back into coverage.

He has a bad an embarrassing personal history, won't even try to debate that. I'm not even saying this is a good hire. I just don't see how you can, in good conscious, blame him for not developing the talent in Jacksonville. That line is just God awful. Some players just can't be developed. All I'm saying is let's see how he does with guys who have some actual ability in Taylor, Rubin, Hughes, and Winn (didn't include Sheard as he'll likely move to OLB).

[Pyro]

Press conference introducing Norv Turner about to begin;

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/media...4-5485f481af31

[Pyro]

Norv Turner will be calling the plays and coaching the QBs. So there you go.

[Smooth]

Yep, so now RB, TE and LB coaches just need to be filled out..

In other news, the Browns hired Daron Roberts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daron_Roberts):

Harvard Law grad-turned-football coach Daron Roberts is back in the NFL. Landed a job with Browns working w Ray Horton.

— Bruce Feldman (@BFeldmanCBS) January 23, 2013

Will likely be a asst. secondary coach or defensive quality control coach...

[RappSoda]

More evidence of switch to 3-4? MT @clarencehilljr: Former Cowboys d-line coach Brian Baker hired by the Browns as outside linebackers coach

— PatMcManamon (@PatMcManamon) January 24, 2013

Looks like they'll be switching to the 3-4, IMO. Outside Linebackers coach.

[NorthCoastKid]

Cleveland Browns hire Jon Embree to coach tight ends and Brian Baker for outside linebackers dlvr.it/2rJ2Dy

— Mary Kay Cabot (@MaryKayCabot) January 24, 2013

Embree is the former HC of Colorado and coached TEs in Kansas City and Washington.

[JMcCurry08]

Cleveland Browns hire Jon Embree to coach tight ends and Brian Baker for outside linebackers dlvr.it/2rJ2Dy

— Mary Kay Cabot (@MaryKayCabot) January 24, 2013

Embree is the former HC of Colorado and coached TEs in Kansas City and Washington.

2006-2008 when Embree was TE coach in Kansas City, Tony Gonzalez had his 3 best years under Embree

[Triplethreat]

2006-2008 when Embree was TE coach in Kansas City, Tony Gonzalez had his 3 best years under Embree

Tony Gonzalez, the greatest tight end of all time, was in his prime with Embree.

[Lee]

2006-2008 when Embree was TE coach in Kansas City, Tony Gonzalez had his 3 best years under Embree

So its easy, we just need to find a tight end with Tony Gozalez's talent and he will be coached up just fine, lol