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  1. #106
    Veteran Saor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Non-Varejao Trade Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by miller810 View Post
    I wish I had as much confidence in Lebron coming back as all of you guys do. Thats all I hear it seems.

    If this Is everyones logic, why don't we just offer Miami all of our picks for the next two years and trade for him? I'm sure since you all think these picks are so valuable, Miami would have no problem with this, right?
    I don't have that much confidence. Lebron really stabbed the Cavs in the back. Its like that girl who broke up with you but says she might want to get back together after awhile. You don't trust that girl.

    I said non-franchise type guy. So no we can't trade for Paul, Durant, Lebron etc. Just as other teams can't trade for Kyrie right now. But depending on how much we wanted them, guys like a Love, Horford, Cousins, or even a Paul George might be available in the next year or so. Think James Harden. Did anyone see him being available? No. The new luxury tax will greatly change the landscape of the NBA imo.

  2. #107
    Rising Star BimboColesHair's Avatar
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    Default Re: Non-Varejao Trade Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by miller810 View Post
    I wish I had as much confidence in Lebron coming back as all of you guys do. Thats all I hear it seems.

    If this Is everyones logic, why don't we just offer Miami all of our picks for the next two years and trade for him? I'm sure since you all think these picks are so valuable, Miami would have no problem with this, right?
    Your logic is flawless. It's not that we are certain LBJ is coming back, it's that we are certain we are trying to have as much cap space as possible for the summer of 2014, where there is much, much more talent out there than just LeBron. Trading for Josh Smith and signing him to the max or signing free agents to big contracts this off season is how you cripple the team for years to come. Relax man, and enjoy the rebuild. You act like it's been going on for 5 years, but we're 1 and a half seasons in.

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    Default Re: Non-Varejao Trade Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by BimboColesHair View Post
    Your logic is flawless. It's not that we are certain LBJ is coming back, it's that we are certain we are trying to have as much cap space as possible for the summer of 2014, where there is much, much more talent out there than just LeBron. Trading for Josh Smith and signing him to the max or signing free agents to big contracts this off season is how you cripple the team for years to come. Relax man, and enjoy the rebuild. You act like it's been going on for 5 years, but we're 1 and a half seasons in.
    I just think we have PLENTY of draft picks as it is. Why not see if we can get Smith. You never know, he just might warm up to the team and wanna stick around for less. And if not, We'll still have plenty of picks left. And I'm sure Grant will stock pile some more.

    And I am enjoying it. Watching some of the things Kyrie does is like watching a true artist at work. Best guard in the league right now in my opinion.

    But I do think we need some toughness and attitude right now. Faried and the turd nuggets pushed us around way to much. I thought Speights was tougher than that...put a body on someone son! Poor Zeller needs some roids or alot of carbs.

  4. #109
    Sports Archaeologist Scholar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Non-Varejao Trade Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by miller810 View Post
    I just think we have PLENTY of draft picks as it is. Why not see if we can get Smith. You never know, he just might warm up to the team and wanna stick around for less. And if not, We'll still have plenty of picks left. And I'm sure Grant will stock pile some more.

    And I am enjoying it. Watching some of the things Kyrie does is like watching a true artist at work. Best guard in the league right now in my opinion.

    But I do think we need some toughness and attitude right now. Faried and the turd nuggets pushed us around way to much. I thought Speights was tougher than that...put a body on someone son! Poor Zeller needs some roids or alot of carbs.
    I think you are just impatient and ready to make foolish decisions. We are in this for the long haul. You never have too many draft picks. Never ever. You need "plenty" of them to use in a trade for premier talent if one becomes available. Trading them off for a player that is in a contract year, and wants to be paid far more then he is worth, is not smart. Hell, if you want to do that, just wait for the free agent period and pay him then with no assets needed. Something I also don't recommend.

    Remember when Boston traded for Garnett and Allen? Remember how the Cavs were never in the running even though they did inquire about both players? It certainly wasn't because Mr Ferry didn't want either player. It was because neither team wanted what we had available to trade for those players. Now, imagine if we had the assets we'll have in 2014 back then. Add either Garnett or Allen, or both, to that team with Lebron. Think there might just be a chance we'd have had a couple of titles by now? An opportunity like that is what you are asking us to sacrifice here by trading for a player like Smith. They'll be more Smith's available along the way. But, the truly special talents take careful planning. Patience, Young Blood, patience.

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  6. #110
    Rising Star Los216's Avatar
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    Default Re: Non-Varejao Trade Ideas

    I'm all about the Cavs having assets for 2014 but if we wanna land a top FA in 2014 then we're gonna have to use some of these assets now to attract one of these top FA's. right now the only thing attractive about the Cavs is Kyrie and possibly Byron Scott. Other than that we have young unproven players and draft picks. I think the only way for us to land any of the top FA's in 2014 is to at least be a playoff team next year. The team as it is right now is not a playoff team so we have to make some moves to make the playoffs first before we land a big time FA in 2014.

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  8. #111
    I hate Florida rabman_gold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Non-Varejao Trade Ideas

    Oy vey... the fellas here who feel we need to use those assets to acquire the free agents NOW are going about this all wrong... that's a rookie mistake.


    1. First you stock up MASSIVE assets. You probably don't understand the implications of that, so let's go through some of the recent examples.
      1. 2008 Boston Celtics: Had a roster with ELEVEN assets, traded for 3 players. Wally, Delonte, Jeff Green, 2008 2nd rounder for Ray Allen; Ryan Gomes, Gerald Green, Al Jefferson, Theo Ratliff, Sebastian Telfair, two 2009 1st rounders for Kevin Garnett; this convinced 3 guys in the summer and 2 guys in the mid-season to play for them... you know the result
      2. 2009 Los Angeles Lakers: The previous year, followed in pursuit of the Celtics model, trading 6 assets, including Marc Gasol and two first rounders, for Pau Gasol and a draft pick; the basis for the championship team support
      3. Oklahoma City Thunder: Every transaction made since 2007 as the Sonics; seriously, you want a team that hordes draft assets and turns into a winner, just look at this team, as they built their team through acquired picks

    2. Then you wait for the right time. You don't waste them on a loser player if you feel a desperate team will give you a sure-fire home-run. Since we usually win our deals, DOES IT MAKE ANY SENSE TO THROW IT OUT?!
    3. Little by little, you get the stuff you're looking for, and then make the changes as you find or not find what you're looking for.


    So stop with the knee jerk reaction, D-League Arm-Chair Managers (try saying that 5 times fast)! We'll be ready. We aren't necessarily just going after LeBron or wasting our time with free agents. You might just wet yourselves .
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  10. #112
    Team Player Cassity14's Avatar
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    Default Re: Non-Varejao Trade Ideas

    Any chance the Suns would be interested in Speights? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they have some bad contracts they may like to unload and if Speights opts out (as I'm sure he would), they could clear plenty of cap space. Their pursuit of Michael Beasely and Eric Gordon this summer leads me to believe they don't plan on outright tanking.

  11. #113
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    Default Re: Non-Varejao Trade Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Los216 View Post
    I'm all about the Cavs having assets for 2014 but if we wanna land a top FA in 2014 then we're gonna have to use some of these assets now to attract one of these top FA's. right now the only thing attractive about the Cavs is Kyrie and possibly Byron Scott. Other than that we have young unproven players and draft picks. I think the only way for us to land any of the top FA's in 2014 is to at least be a playoff team next year. The team as it is right now is not a playoff team so we have to make some moves to make the playoffs first before we land a big time FA in 2014.
    You got to remember that most teams don't have anyone else either, other than one or two big names. If you compare Miami to Cleveland, of course Miami is currently better because they have the big three. If you were to create a team right now, you rather have, Irving or Wade? I would take Irving. Now yes Miami has Bosh, yet we have V. Edge Miami. Yet, this is where we differentiate. We still have Waiters and TT. Who can you point to on Miami roster as wow, other than Haslem? Yes they have Chambers yet he'll be a free agent soon getting more than just $4 million. And, Cleveland will have a top six draft pick plus a 50-50 shot at a top 15 LA pick. So, our flexibility relies on cap space to give us that star, to get us to not only the playoffs but in running for elite team.

  12. #114
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    Default Re: Non-Varejao Trade Ideas

    Denver is 5M over the cap...Is there anyway that Jordan Hamilton could be pulled from them, while getting them closer to the Cap?

    Orlando (-6.5M) would be another team to look at as being over the cap. Harkless, Nicholson or O'Quinn would fit the Grant mold of younger players brought in for cap space.

    Trade Machine and a long day at work...Come up with all kinds of unrealistic hopefuls.
    If we call an older woman chasing after a younger boy a "Cougar"....... Is it safe to say that we can call an old man chasing after a younger boy a "Nittany Lion"???

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    Default Re: Non-Varejao Trade Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by jhard View Post
    Denver is 5M over the cap...Is there anyway that Jordan Hamilton could be pulled from them, while getting them closer to the Cap?

    Orlando (-6.5M) would be another team to look at as being over the cap. Harkless, Nicholson or O'Quinn would fit the Grant mold of younger players brought in for cap space.

    Trade Machine and a long day at work...Come up with all kinds of unrealistic hopefuls.
    Neither of those teams is over the luxury tax. You are probably looking at salary figures that are including players they Amnestied, which does not count towards the LT.

    The only teams over the Luxury Tax are: Lakers, Nets, heat, Knicks, Celtics, Bulls, Warriors

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    Default Re: Non-Varejao Trade Ideas

    I was going strictly off the ESPN trade machine numbers.

    Thanks for the correction.
    If we call an older woman chasing after a younger boy a "Cougar"....... Is it safe to say that we can call an old man chasing after a younger boy a "Nittany Lion"???

  16. #117
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    Default Re: Non-Varejao Trade Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkins View Post
    I don't have that much confidence. Lebron really stabbed the Cavs in the back. Its like that girl who broke up with you but says she might want to get back together after awhile. You don't trust that girl.
    Can we please stop comparing LeBron leaving to a break-up?

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  18. #118
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    Default Re: Non-Varejao Trade Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by jhard View Post
    Denver is 5M over the cap...Is there anyway that Jordan Hamilton could be pulled from them, while getting them closer to the Cap?

    Orlando (-6.5M) would be another team to look at as being over the cap. Harkless, Nicholson or O'Quinn would fit the Grant mold of younger players brought in for cap space.

    Trade Machine and a long day at work...Come up with all kinds of unrealistic hopefuls.
    yep adding would fit great IMHO.

    But then again the internet experts said Grant would never have more than 2 rookies a year on the team. Now I think we have 4 on the team.

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    Default Re: Non-Varejao Trade Ideas

    Bargnani might not make much sense in Cleveland, as I think most of you already believe. Theoretically he could give us some what Antawn Jamison gave us which opened up some things for Kyrie getting to the basket. But Bargnani doesn't do the things Antawn does closer to the basket, the finishing and quick buckets, as far as I can remember. I'd probably rather have Jamison out of the two, and we know the Cavs didn't want to keep him either.

    So the "talks" if there are any, I'm guessing are likely about our ability to absorb other players' salaries in a multi-team deal. If it happens that Bargnani can have a revival in a new system, I wonder if D'Antoni would like to have him, or could make good use out of him. It seems like an obvious fit but I don't know all the details of D'Antoni's system.

    So maybe a three way which gets Boobie and Bargnani to the Lakers could help booster their bench and give em a push to the playoffs so we can get some increase in depth and a pick(s) from Toronto in the trade. The Lakers not having much salary to trade that they can really get rid of makes it tough. But here's a try, with some reasoning/rationalizing below...

    To Toronto: Blake, Duhon, Walton, Ebanks

    To Lakers: Bargnani, Gibson

    To Cavs: Hill, Fields, Draft pick(s)


    Toronto gets rid of two crippling contracts, improves their bench's depth at the guard spot with vets for the playoff run and get a team guy in Walton who will fit right in (play unselfishly) if he gets any minutes, and Ebanks completes the trade (another expiring), assuming he consents. Overall I think they'd save almost 30 million dollars if they don't resign any of the guys from this trade. That's worth a decent pick or two, right?

    Lakers might not make this trade if they're concerned about 2014, but maybe a Dwight Howard (I think he wants to play in Houston next year) trade this year greases the wheels on a deal like this. They get more talent to try and get over the hump this year which is all they care about, sort of. D'Antoni would love to add two more "shooters" if you can sell him the Bargnani is one. He's Italian so maybe it'd be easy. They're taking on a net of 11 million dollars over the next two years, because they have Bargnani's crappy contract but get rid of those guards' and Hill's contracts. They don't have to resign Boobie (or might for less).

    Cavs take on 17 million in new money owed over the next 2 years but have added depth at SF/SG and at C/PF that they may have spent anyway, with competent players Fields and Hill. Plus we might get a decent pick or two to work with, don't ask me where they would be. Hill's contract expires after next year and Fields contract is back loaded unfortunately, he's owed 8.5 mil the 2014/15 season.

    I don't know what picks if any make this deal worth making. It's probably a horrible trade, don't kill me too hard, but I was just trying to make something work with the circumstances of all three teams.

    This trade works according to the trade machine, but I think Ebanks would have to consent?.. With an opening at SF from Field's departure he might get more minutes in Toronto than in LA.

    Who says yes? Who says no? And why?

    Edit: After some comments (thanks wuck) I realize this deal is quite a gamble. If I could bump it up to two picks from Toronto that could be promised, or one from each of LA and Toronto (I just remembered we're giving them Boobie too), plus the possibility of LA making the playoffs, Cavs could gain up to three mid-late first round picks from this deal, rather than zero gained from letting Boobie and Walton expire (although we'd save $ that way, which we have to do at some point). Odds are we'd end up with just the sure two picks and the Lakers still miss the playoffs.. but I'd like to remit the idea of only getting one sure pick out of this deal. Lakers are getting a huge upgrade in talent and even though they're paying money for it, they are as desperate as anybody else and we should demand a pick from them too (or two from Toronto, as 30M is a lot of saving). Even still, it's a gamble as is the draft itself. Fields and Hill would ease some of that risk. Still not a sure winner as we're starting to get used to with Grant.

  20. #120
    Hustling on the inside wuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Non-Varejao Trade Ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by RTrees View Post
    Who says yes? Who says no? And why?
    Since Fields' contract spills into 2014-2015, I think it would take more for the Cavs to make that deal. Facilitating such a trade would give the Cavs a better chance at swapping for the Lakers pick this year, so that could be a plus. But taking on that contract for a possible mid-to-lower pick in 2013 (and possibly no swap at all)? Not really seeing that.

    Toronto can't trade a first-round pick until 2015, and the Lakers can't trade a first-round pick until 2019, so the Cavs aren't going to get extremely valuable picks out of this transaction. That's the main reason I don't see them as likely Cavs trade partners.
    Last edited by wuck; 02-17-2013 at 07:21 PM.

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