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  1. #136
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    Default Re: 2013 NFL Free Agency: Browns

    Quote Originally Posted by DJTJ View Post
    I could live with depth signings if they keep our young core together with contract extensions.
    Someone correct me if I am wrong, but after next season both TJ Ward and Mack contracts are finished. The following year, I'm pretty sure it's Sheard and Little; not to mention the giant contract/extension that Haden will most likely be looking for.

    If we went smart/realistic signings for FA, and addressed G/CB/OLB (maybe even FS too), then we could afford to take an under-developed super talent like Ansah, and allow him time to really blossom as a young player. If we're in a position where Moore/Star are out of the picutre, and we are looking at Mingo or Ansah....I'd rather go Ansah. I like Dion Jordan, but I am worried about his torn labrum.

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    Default Re: 2013 NFL Free Agency: Browns

    After 13-14 season: Mack and Ward
    After 14-15 season: Little, Sheard, Taylor and Haden
    After 15-16 season: All 2012 rookies
    Browns QB wish list
    1) Blake Bortles
    2) Teddy Bridgewater
    3) Johnny Manziel
    4) Jimmy Garoppolo
    5) Derek Carr

  3. #138
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    Default Re: 2013 NFL Free Agency: Browns

    Pretty much agree with everyones opions on here about the way to use are cap space, we need to lock up the young good players we have...Are core key guys who are going to be the ones who we build this franchise around, we dont need to go crazy in F/A just make sure you hit on almost all of your draft picks....

  4. #139
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    Default Re: 2013 NFL Free Agency: Browns

    Quote Originally Posted by Delgua View Post
    I did this Browns mock on another board:

    Going off of the updated cbs rankings, here's my latest Browns mock:

    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings

    6) OLB Mingo or OLB J.Jones (tough spot, would prefer a tradedown)
    68) FS Amerson or OLB B.Jenkins or OLB C.Thomas or OLB Carradine
    101) CB Wreh-Wilson or FS Cyprien or DT/DE Logan or QB EJ Manuel
    132) OT Armstead or CB Robey or FS Motta
    ~170) ILB Mauti or DB Mathieu or OT Mills or CB Adams or G Uzzi
    ~204) and ~206) 2 of WR Boyce, P Allen, OLB E.Martin, DE J.Kruger, DE Lewis-Moore, DE S.Vallone, OT Wetzel, OLB Q.Smith, CB J.Johnson, CB Malone, TE Rivera, WR Moe, RB Winn, FS Boyett, CB M.White, RB Johnson, OT O.Johnson

    I'd want more 3rd day picks

    As always 2nd to 4th is where the value's at. The question for the Browns will be what's better? Rolling the dice on "high end" boom/(injury) busts like Mingo/J:Jones + Amerson

    OR

    punt our 1st rounder and get 2 more 2nd to 4th rounders in return

    Is Mingo/Jones better than, say: Ansah/D.Jordan + Patton/Poyer + Logan/S.Bailey (or flyer on a falling QB like EJ Manuel) ??

    I somewhat prefer the 2nd scenario...our 1st pick would still be a "risky" pass rushing prospect, but we'd get a "safe" 2nd round guy like Patton or Poyer and either another flyer (QB or injury player...Carradine? Jenkins?) or solid pick like Logan or S.Bailey in the 3rd/4th round range to "risk control" the draft class

    Opinions?
    I'd prefer Tony Jefferson over Amerson. Kid is an absolute playmaker. Amerson struggled a little bit this year and I think has much higher bust potential. Jefferson, and Baccari Rambo for that matter, are much safer picks, IMO in the third round. I agree safety has to be the pick assuming they go OLB in round 1. I personally think Matt Elam is one of the best players in the draft and would love for him to be a Cleveland Brown, but I don't see it happening unless they can trade down or pick up a second rounder. The best thing possible would be moving down in the first round, taking an OLB like Alex Okafor or Alec Ogletree (who is an absolute stud and could probably play OLB in a 3-4) and then having a 2nd round pick to take Elam.

    I'm all about value picks, so in round 4 I'd probably take Xavier Nixon for a RT, or even consider a guy like William Gholston who could make a pretty good 3-4 OLB. It depends on what they do in round 1 of course. Gerald Hodges (way underrated on this list) would also be a great value selection. One guy who might be a reach in the 4th, but will have a long career at RT in the league is Reid Fragel. He played one year at RT after converting from TE, played at a solid 310 lbs, looked physically amazing, and performed at an All Big 10 level. Kid will be a steal for someone in the middle rounds....he'd probably be viewed as one of the best tackles in the draft had he started there under Tressel.

    I wish I liked some of the CB's more in the middle rounds, but I think it is an amazingly weak CB class. Desmond Trufant had a nice year, but even be considered a first round pick is pretty shocking to me. I've fallen off the Xavier Rhodes bandwagon after watching him blow coverage after coverage in his last 3 games. I don't even think he can play corner in the NFL anymore, probably a Free Safety. He doesn't hit or play as aggressive as a guy like Malcolm Jenkins (converted CB) though so he'd make me nervous. I went to FSU, am a big fan of the Noles, and I was drooling over his size but he looked terrible to close out the year. Dee Milliner and Jonathon Banks were far and away the best corners this year so it's disappointing Banks tore his knee up in the Bowl game. I really like Milliner and wouldn't be disappointed in taking him early in round 1. His ball skills are pretty special. There is nothing more refreshing than watching a CB turn his head to locate the football on nearly every throw at him, especially college kids. Maybe its just from watching so much Ohio State and having corners who only break on the football in zone, but can never get their heads around on single coverage down the sideline. I love watching Milliner defend the deep ball. And he struggled pretty badly against Michigan, but he bounced back strong to close the year out.

    There some really solid players that have been graded as undrafted FA's that surprise me as well.

    Craig Roh - DE/OLB - Michigan- is a good football player and would fit 3-4 defense pretty well.

    Zac Stacy - RB - Vanderbilt - was probably the best player on Vanderbilt and has that fantastic RB body where he is low to the ground at 5'7 and 215 lbs. He's a steal in the later rounds if not FA.

    Nathan Williams - OLB - OSU - played well enough to have a future in the NFL after microfracture surgery. The OSU defense looked lost without him. Got decent pressure and has experience dropping into coverage on zone blitzes. Won't be a star in the NFL, but could provide solid depth and a smaller learning curve.

    Mike Edwards - CB - Hawaii - kid certainly doesn't lack the talent. Was a 4* recruit to Tennessee before being kicked off the team for robbery. Was all conference this year and was the only kid who looked like he belonged against USC this year. The talent is there, so I;'m assuming his low grade is directly the result of character. He might be worth it in the late rounds or as a free agent.

    Kenny Tate - OLB - Maryland - I have no idea what happened to this kids draft prospects, but every time FSU played Maryland, he was one of the best players on the field. He came in as a safety but was moved to OLB early in his career. Kid is 6'4 and 220 lbs so not suited for a 3-4 LB, but he definately an NFL player. His biggest mistake was probably staying home and playing for an awful local school. EJ Manual has nightmares of this kid though....

    Greg Reid - CB - FSU/Valdosta St - Kid was a return animal for FSU before being kicked off for multiple arrests, the last straw being marijuana and a gun in his car. He's a bit undersized at 5'8 but could be a good nickel CB. He'll be a good return man wherever he winds up. Probably needs a tail on him at all times though.

    And just to show how ridiculous some of these lists can be...Jordan Kovacs (slow walk-on safety at Michigan) is rated higher than the following players:
    Dominique Battle - CB - Cincinnati
    Omar Hunter - DT - Florida
    Prentiss Waggner - CB - Tennessee (no idea how he is rated close to #700)
    Orhian Johnson - FS - certainly not a fantastic player, but ask a Michigan fan who they'd rather have had starting in the secondary

    Anyways, like all drafts, I think there is a ton of value to be had. It's all about filling needs and finding the right fits. I'll be insanely disappointed if they go QB in any early round. It'd be amazing to see them grab 2 instant starters for their defense in rounds 1 & 3 IMO.

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    Default Re: 2013 NFL Free Agency: Browns

    Quote Originally Posted by billmac91 View Post
    Anyways, like all drafts, I think there is a ton of value to be had. It's all about filling needs and finding the right fits. I'll be insanely disappointed if they go QB in any early round. It'd be amazing to see them grab 2 instant starters for their defense in rounds 1 & 3 IMO.
    Good stuff billmac and I especially agree with your general approach to this draft. We should NOT be thinking QB in the top 3 rounds unless some crazy value drops to our 3rd rounder. Many don't like it, but Weeden absolutely deserves this 2nd season. People get all hung up on his age, but the truth is from an QB experience perspective he's a normal rook. He started 2 years in College and now one season in the NFL. He's Ryan Tannehill just 6years older and he had pretty much the same season as Tannehill (who had a much better running game and D play to support him though). Ask any Dolphins fan if they even think about replacing Tannehill after his rook season. It's hilarious really. Weeden had a QB rating of 79 and a yds/PA close to 7 since week 2, numbers that got Bradford rookie of the year not long ago...only in Cleveland that people seriously think about replacing a 1st round rook QB investment with those numbers after 14 freaking starts...it's insane. Weeden was a boom or bust selection at a high value position. I knew that from the moment they picked him and next season is his make or break season, especially in Norv's system. If he's still the same, I'll be the first to call for his head, but replacing him NOW with another rook would be one of the dumbest moves in Browns history and considering that history that's saying something. It'd be like drafting Jeff Faine and releasing O'Hara ALL OVER again. Simply stupid and a HUGE waste of VALUE, a concept only Heckert really understood of all people running around in Berea the past 13 years

    That said, I disagree with some of your prospects assessments. I like Elam, he was a terrific College player but I'm not sure he'll be a great pro. He's a SS/FS tweener and I'm not sure he has the physicality/durability to play SS (think Bob Sanders), although I think it's his best pro position, but SS aren't as valuable and we already have a Top 5 SS in Ward. What we need is a ballhawk FS and I don't exactly see that in Elam. He's one of those prospects that I like but just don't the any value fit for the Browns. Also not a huge fan of Jefferson and am torn on Rambo. I'm not sure those guys are the answer to the Browns' FS problem. I'd rather have a CB/FS tweener manning the deep half than a SS/FS tweener, which this class seems to be full of.

    Ogletree, I'm not sure he can play as 3-4 OLB and even if he could, he's pretty much OFF my board being a pretty big character red flag (class A headcase). I'd rather take Minter, who reminds me of Dqwell, though he's somewhat like Elam in that he just doesn't fit what we need, as we need more of a thumper next to Dqwell.

    I like Okafor and OT Nixon, who had some nice offseason showings. People don't realize that we need a swing OT badly. We're set with Thomas and Schwartz but god forbid one of them goes down. We got lucky that we never had to see Cousins, we need an upgrade there. In my opinion swing OT is a bigger need for this roster than G where we have some solid, if unspectacular young guys with Pinky, Lauvao, Greco and Miller. It's that time of the year where every homer fan wants the best G in round 1 because it's deemed to be the "safest" pick...what they don't realize is that taking ANY interior OL in round 1 is also the worst value possible. To me it's really close to taking a K in round 1. Every FA you can sign Top 5 Gs and Cs...ask yourself why for a second. I was pretty happy when the Steelers drafted Mendenhall, Pouncey and DeCastro in round 1. It's why they are going downhill. I could write a novel on this "value" stuff, but won't go there yet, lol.

    Roh is a decent rotational 3-4 DE but I see only late round value, similar to ND's Kapron Lewis-Moore. Would like DeVito in FA or LSU's Logan in the mid rounds to solidify the DL. Also like Zac Stacy and I think there's again some nice late round and even UDFA value at RB, especially for a team like the Browns who only need a complimentary back. I especially like RB Winn from Cincinnati...I've read people say that they think he was better than Pead. Can't comment much on the rest of your sleepers as they haven't been on my radar much.

    As for the CB class: I agree that it's not that strong at the top, as the whole draft class is pretty weak at the top, but there's some mid/late round value imho with decent NFL starter upside. Remember, the Browns "only" need a no2 and/or slot CB with Haden in th fold. There are always some smaller CBs who drop way too far due to size/speed. You said you're a FSU guy, so you can give me some background on last year's CB Harris, who I really, really liked and ended up starting for the Jaguars. I also liked L.Johnson, who I couldn't believe wasn't drafted at all and started for TB. This draft my smallish, late round CBs are Purdue's Johnson and Spartans CB Adams. For the 3rd/4th round range I really like the game and tape of Wreh-Wilson. I was all in on him, but getting 2nd thoughts on him now due to reported deep speed issues, so I'll wait for his 40 and splits, but anything under 4.6 and I'm good with him again.

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  8. #141
    Joe Thomas Fan Club col63onel's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2013 NFL Free Agency: Browns

    re: Jennings

    I actually think Jennings is the type of complementary WR that we should look for. We have a possession guy in Little, a deep threat in Benji and an emerging #1 in Gordon. A well rounded Vet would be the perfect match.

    His price tag would be prohibitive, but he's the type of guy to go after.
    The Wine and Gold Knight Rises


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    Default Re: 2013 NFL Free Agency: Browns

    Quote Originally Posted by Delgua View Post
    Good stuff billmac and I especially agree with your general approach to this draft. We should NOT be thinking QB in the top 3 rounds unless some crazy value drops to our 3rd rounder. Many don't like it, but Weeden absolutely deserves this 2nd season. People get all hung up on his age, but the truth is from an QB experience perspective he's a normal rook. He started 2 years in College and now one season in the NFL. He's Ryan Tannehill just 6years older and he had pretty much the same season as Tannehill (who had a much better running game and D play to support him though). Ask any Dolphins fan if they even think about replacing Tannehill after his rook season. It's hilarious really. Weeden had a QB rating of 79 and a yds/PA close to 7 since week 2, numbers that got Bradford rookie of the year not long ago...only in Cleveland that people seriously think about replacing a 1st round rook QB investment with those numbers after 14 freaking starts...it's insane. Weeden was a boom or bust selection at a high value position. I knew that from the moment they picked him and next season is his make or break season, especially in Norv's system. If he's still the same, I'll be the first to call for his head, but replacing him NOW with another rook would be one of the dumbest moves in Browns history and considering that history that's saying something. It'd be like drafting Jeff Faine and releasing O'Hara ALL OVER again. Simply stupid and a HUGE waste of VALUE, a concept only Heckert really understood of all people running around in Berea the past 13 years

    That said, I disagree with some of your prospects assessments. I like Elam, he was a terrific College player but I'm not sure he'll be a great pro. He's a SS/FS tweener and I'm not sure he has the physicality/durability to play SS (think Bob Sanders), although I think it's his best pro position, but SS aren't as valuable and we already have a Top 5 SS in Ward. What we need is a ballhawk FS and I don't exactly see that in Elam. He's one of those prospects that I like but just don't the any value fit for the Browns. Also not a huge fan of Jefferson and am torn on Rambo. I'm not sure those guys are the answer to the Browns' FS problem. I'd rather have a CB/FS tweener manning the deep half than a SS/FS tweener, which this class seems to be full of.

    Ogletree, I'm not sure he can play as 3-4 OLB and even if he could, he's pretty much OFF my board being a pretty big character red flag (class A headcase). I'd rather take Minter, who reminds me of Dqwell, though he's somewhat like Elam in that he just doesn't fit what we need, as we need more of a thumper next to Dqwell.

    I like Okafor and OT Nixon, who had some nice offseason showings. People don't realize that we need a swing OT badly. We're set with Thomas and Schwartz but god forbid one of them goes down. We got lucky that we never had to see Cousins, we need an upgrade there. In my opinion swing OT is a bigger need for this roster than G where we have some solid, if unspectacular young guys with Pinky, Lauvao, Greco and Miller. It's that time of the year where every homer fan wants the best G in round 1 because it's deemed to be the "safest" pick...what they don't realize is that taking ANY interior OL in round 1 is also the worst value possible. To me it's really close to taking a K in round 1. Every FA you can sign Top 5 Gs and Cs...ask yourself why for a second. I was pretty happy when the Steelers drafted Mendenhall, Pouncey and DeCastro in round 1. It's why they are going downhill. I could write a novel on this "value" stuff, but won't go there yet, lol.

    Roh is a decent rotational 3-4 DE but I see only late round value, similar to ND's Kapron Lewis-Moore. Would like DeVito in FA or LSU's Logan in the mid rounds to solidify the DL. Also like Zac Stacy and I think there's again some nice late round and even UDFA value at RB, especially for a team like the Browns who only need a complimentary back. I especially like RB Winn from Cincinnati...I've read people say that they think he was better than Pead. Can't comment much on the rest of your sleepers as they haven't been on my radar much.

    As for the CB class: I agree that it's not that strong at the top, as the whole draft class is pretty weak at the top, but there's some mid/late round value imho with decent NFL starter upside. Remember, the Browns "only" need a no2 and/or slot CB with Haden in th fold. There are always some smaller CBs who drop way too far due to size/speed. You said you're a FSU guy, so you can give me some background on last year's CB Harris, who I really, really liked and ended up starting for the Jaguars. I also liked L.Johnson, who I couldn't believe wasn't drafted at all and started for TB. This draft my smallish, late round CBs are Purdue's Johnson and Spartans CB Adams. For the 3rd/4th round range I really like the game and tape of Wreh-Wilson. I was all in on him, but getting 2nd thoughts on him now due to reported deep speed issues, so I'll wait for his 40 and splits, but anything under 4.6 and I'm good with him again.
    I really like Johnny Adams from MSU. His draft rating has slid from a 3rd - 4th round guy to 6th - 7th round based on getting beat deep several times this year. The kid likes to gamble and play press coverage and it bit him in the ass this year. He's physical though and played opponents #1 receivers all year. I like his ability to help in run support as well. He's got decent size at 5'10 and 185lbs but probably lacks the top end speed you'd like in a CB. I think he could be a #2 CB and at worst a nickel back.

    The funny thing about Mike Harris, is he was probably the third or fourth best CB on the Noles when he was there. He was solid but didn't garner the same attention as guys like Xavier Rhodes, Greg Reid, etc. The Seminoles secondary was scary good this year and I'm not sure how many people realize it. Mike Stoops recruited the hell out of Florida and Georgia.

    The type of safety you were talking about wanting, fits Xavier Rhodes to a T. I think he'll be a cover secondary in the NFL. I think you're wrong about Matt Elam though. Kid finds the football, is a great tackler, and lays the wood. I see what you're saying in regards to redundancy between he and Ward, but I think Elam is the best safety in the draft.

    It's too bad Lewis-Moore tore his knee up in the national title game. He and Nix were the reason the ND defense was good at all. Watch how badly ND gets run on next year.

    And I'm not on the Weeden bandwagon at all, but I think a QB this year would be a waste of a pick. I thought the same thing last year as well. Develop this roster so whoever they settle on at QB has a chance at being successful out of the gate. Taking Weeden was a waste last year, when they could have just let McCoy start, and used that second first rounder on a position of need. You talk about Weedn's season compared to Tannehill, but Tannehill is also 6-7 years younger. I mean, our rookie starting QB is older than Joe Flacco and think about all of the years of development he needed. All that ebing said, I'm with you on giving Weeden this season and then determining if they want to find another franchise guy. Just don't start the treadmill again....

  10. #143
    All Star Triplethreat's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2013 NFL Free Agency: Browns

    Thanks Kiper and McShay.

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  12. #144
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    Default Re: 2013 NFL Free Agency: Browns

    The San Francisco 49ers will attempt to trade quarterback Alex Smith this offseason, according to league sources, and some believe they will be able to do it because there is not a great supply of available quarterbacks and there is a demand for Smith.

    Browns offensive coordinator Norv Turner worked well with Smith in San Francisco when he was the team's offensive coordinator in 2006 and Chiefs coach Andy Reid has expressed an interest in Smith in the past, making Cleveland and Kansas City two possible destinations.

    There's one other factor to consider: If San Francisco deals Smith instead of cutting him, it would save the $1 million or $2 million roster bonus it would have to pay if he is released.

    Smith, the 2005 No. 1 overall draft pick, lost his starting job to Colin Kaepernick while sitting out with a concussion but has been professional at every turn and has continued to mentor his replacement.

    In fact, coach Jim Harbaugh has indicated that Smith spends more time than he does coaching Kaepernick.

    Before his injury, Smith had completed 26 of his last 28 passes -- including going 18-of-19 for 232 yards, three touchdowns and no interceptions (good to a 157.1 passer rating) in a "Monday Night Football" win at Arizona on Oct. 29.

    He then sustained a concussion in the second quarter of the 49ers' next game, a 24-24 tie against St. Louis on Nov. 11. Smith sat out the next game as Kaepernick dazzled in his debut as an NFL starter, beating the Bears handily at home on "Monday Night Football." Smith didn't start again this season.
    http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2012...-smith-sources

  13. #145
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    Default Re: 2013 NFL Free Agency: Browns

    Alex Smith has too much trouble getting the ball to the receivers, and we don't have an elite TE. Don't think he fits the offense at all.
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    Default Re: 2013 NFL Free Agency: Browns

    They could make a trade for him starting today or do they have to wait until new league year begins
    Browns QB wish list
    1) Blake Bortles
    2) Teddy Bridgewater
    3) Johnny Manziel
    4) Jimmy Garoppolo
    5) Derek Carr

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    Default Re: 2013 NFL Free Agency: Browns

    TheSportsFixWHK ‏@TheSportsFixWHK
    Juicy #Browns rumor: 3 way trade, Browns send Weeden to KC, SF send A Smith to Cle, SF gets future 1st from KC, 2nd from Cle... there ya go


    This guy has a radio show on 1420 AM in Cleveland on Saturdays from 9-Midnight but I really doubt this rumor
    Browns QB wish list
    1) Blake Bortles
    2) Teddy Bridgewater
    3) Johnny Manziel
    4) Jimmy Garoppolo
    5) Derek Carr

  16. #148
    Bania'd RappSoda's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2013 NFL Free Agency: Browns

    Quote Originally Posted by JMcCurry08 View Post
    TheSportsFixWHK ‏@TheSportsFixWHK
    Juicy #Browns rumor: 3 way trade, Browns send Weeden to KC, SF send A Smith to Cle, SF gets future 1st from KC, 2nd from Cle... there ya go


    This guy has a radio show on 1420 AM in Cleveland on Saturdays from 9-Midnight but I really doubt this rumor
    Wait, so here is what happens:

    Kansas City - Giving up a 1st rounder for Brandon Weeden
    Cleveland - Giving up Weeden AND a 2nd rounder for Alex Smith
    San Fran - 1st and 2nd for Alex Smith

    This would be good, except it is not realistic at all. First, Alex Smith is supposed to be worth a conditional 4th rounder... Second, Kansas City is not going to give up a 1st rounder for Brandon Weeden. You know where you can put this rumor.

    Cavaliers | Browns | Indians | Buckeyes | Red Hawks

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    Default Re: 2013 NFL Free Agency: Browns

    Yeah I called the guy out on it and he said a friend of the show told him...
    Browns QB wish list
    1) Blake Bortles
    2) Teddy Bridgewater
    3) Johnny Manziel
    4) Jimmy Garoppolo
    5) Derek Carr

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    Default Re: 2013 NFL Free Agency: Browns

    Andrew Siciliano was on 92.3 and he thinks Alex Smith will be cut but he wont come to Cleveland to "compete"....
    Browns QB wish list
    1) Blake Bortles
    2) Teddy Bridgewater
    3) Johnny Manziel
    4) Jimmy Garoppolo
    5) Derek Carr

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