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  1. #61
    A View Inside the Game Wine and Gold's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Kyrie and Dion chemistry conundrum

    Quote Originally Posted by Sawduzt View Post
    I think from a coaching point our offense is not exactly helping. We currently run "101 ball screens" offense, very similar to LeIso in many ways. This means by definition one of them is standing around and watching the other run a ball screen. I'm not blaming scott as i feel he needs another offseason, but i expect some more cutting and moving next year and TT to play at the high post. Early in the season they ran waiters off some down screensand i can see that being a good part of his game, hell he always fades anyway so might as well shoot on the move. Same with Kyrie get him off a down screen witha defender closing out on the right wind, the pin/fade screen waiters with TT, drive skip,dish or finish. Or anything that gets the ball between them on either wings forcing the defense to close out on both of them in one attack. I think they have a chance if they can grow together to be very similar to manu and parker, just kyrie has so much more range than parker.
    It's not easy to see, but ...Byron is gradually bringing elements into our offense, but ...we can't just throw things out there against the wall before certain young players are ready for them. I say this in terms of what they are able to see and understand as it happens in games, at game speed. So much is just based on experience and recognition ..until that gradually comes to them through game action, you watch them and how they are reacting in practice. It will begin to show there with more consistency and then you begin to see it translate into the actual games. We are seeing that with Tristan in just the past month, finally. We hopefully see that same type progression with Dion and Kyrie. I have confidence we will. But chemistry is another word for understanding and knowing each other. Nothing can bring that along but time and experience together... We have coaches here that are good teachers and know how to bring along and foster this progression. Have faith. Saying all that, though ...I'm not convinced that Dion's eventual role with this team is as much as a starter, but rather a strong hybrid guard off the bench. Again, time and how the player roster develops will answer that question.
    Last edited by Wine and Gold; 02-03-2013 at 05:14 PM.


  2. #62
    Hustling on the inside wuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Kyrie and Dion chemistry conundrum

    All of the fried chicken posts have moved to their own thread (http://realcavsfans.com/showthread.p...-Fried-Chicken).

    Here's a chemistry question. How many assists does Dion have passing to Kyrie? And Vice-versa? Do either of them have Cavs they like to pass the ball to more? I realize that assists are skewed because of all the jump shots the Cavs have missed but I'm wondering if the stats indicate any tendencies.

    Is it because of scheme or chemistry or lack of ball movement or eagerness to score alone?

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  4. #63
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    Default Re: The Kyrie and Dion chemistry conundrum

    Quote Originally Posted by wuck View Post
    All of the fried chicken posts have moved to their own thread (http://realcavsfans.com/showthread.p...-Fried-Chicken).

    Here's a chemistry question. How many assists does Dion have passing to Kyrie? And Vice-versa? Do either of them have Cavs they like to pass the ball to more? I realize that assists are skewed because of all the jump shots the Cavs have missed but I'm wondering if the stats indicate any tendencies.

    Is it because of scheme or chemistry or lack of ball movement or eagerness to score alone?
    Kyrie almost never kicks it out to a three shooter, which may be related to most of our three shooters not being very good. Still, he seems to prefer to kick it to a big.

    Dion seems more willing to kick it out behind the three point line, but he also seems to pass to Zeller a lot for the pop. Unfortunately, since it's Zeller, Dion has about 1000 assists that weren't credited because Zeller missed a wide open jumper.

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  6. #64
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    Default Re: The Kyrie and Dion chemistry conundrum

    Quote Originally Posted by wuck View Post
    Here's a chemistry question. How many assists does Dion have passing to Kyrie? And Vice-versa? Do either of them have Cavs they like to pass the ball to more? I realize that assists are skewed because of all the jump shots the Cavs have missed but I'm wondering if the stats indicate any tendencies.
    This is something we could count while watching the game. Basically we want to know how many passes were made from one that helped the other make a shot attempt. How many of those led to actual scores would be nice to know as well.

  7. #65
    Hustling on the inside wuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Kyrie and Dion chemistry conundrum

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post
    This is something we could count while watching the game.
    My hope is that someone else will do or has done the counting.

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    Valuable Trading Chip D-Wreck's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Kyrie and Dion chemistry conundrum

    Quote Originally Posted by wuck View Post
    My hope is that someone else will do or has done the counting.
    That stat is out there somewhere because I've seen people refer to Westbrook leading the league in assists to a single player (Durant)

    No idea how to find it though.

    Godspeed Wuck

  9. #67
    Team Player KeyzerSozee's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Kyrie and Dion chemistry conundrum

    Aren't they both playing in the rising stars game? would be great if they got picked opposite. Maybe that'll start it?

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  11. #68
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    Default Re: The Kyrie and Dion chemistry conundrum

    Quote Originally Posted by wuck View Post
    My hope is that someone else will do or has done the counting.
    lol, I wish there was a public site where we could just query that sort of thing; but if it requires counting above say 3 for either player, I'm thinking that alone would be worth reporting.

  12. #69
    Birthing All-Stars Löttery Göd's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Kyrie and Dion chemistry conundrum

    Quote Originally Posted by wuck View Post
    All of the fried chicken posts have moved to their own thread (http://realcavsfans.com/showthread.p...-Fried-Chicken).

    Here's a chemistry question. How many assists does Dion have passing to Kyrie? And Vice-versa? Do either of them have Cavs they like to pass the ball to more? I realize that assists are skewed because of all the jump shots the Cavs have missed but I'm wondering if the stats indicate any tendencies.

    Is it because of scheme or chemistry or lack of ball movement or eagerness to score alone?
    From the viewpoint of a first time reader of this thread where the thread is on topic, then, all of a sudden, you post that, it's just hilarious.

    People have got to think, "what the fuck happened here that I missed?!"
    "For the Tank God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Tank Son, Antawn Jamison, and whosoever believes in Him, will not perish, but have everlasting high draft picks." - Tank 3:16

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  14. #70
    Team Player Lionheart's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Kyrie and Dion chemistry conundrum

    Quote Originally Posted by Tank View Post
    From the viewpoint of a first time reader of this thread where the thread is on topic, then, all of a sudden, you post that, it's just hilarious.

    People have got to think, "what the fuck happened here that I missed?!"
    Its W&G's fault, he started craving for chicken mid-post. I think.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wine and Gold View Post
    I don't care if I've got 2 dollars to my name, or 20 milllion ...KFC will always have the best food on planet earth for me. Can't get enough. I don't think a week has past in my life I haven't had KFC at least once. Matter of fact ..Delonte just inspired me to make a KFC run right now ..
    Any man who must say, "I am the king" is no true king. - Tywin Lannister

  15. #71
    I hate Florida rabman_gold's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Kyrie and Dion chemistry conundrum

    Quote Originally Posted by wuck View Post
    All of the fried chicken posts have moved to their own thread (http://realcavsfans.com/showthread.p...-Fried-Chicken).

    Here's a chemistry question. How many assists does Dion have passing to Kyrie? And Vice-versa? Do either of them have Cavs they like to pass the ball to more? I realize that assists are skewed because of all the jump shots the Cavs have missed but I'm wondering if the stats indicate any tendencies.

    Is it because of scheme or chemistry or lack of ball movement or eagerness to score alone?
    Perhaps I can help. # of games: 1. # of times assisted: once. Play ran: End of 3rd quarter, Dion isolation, he gave a glance to Kyrie to indicate "yeah, I'm setting you up". He started making his move towards the hoop on the left, making enough separation, Kyrie also separated from his defender at the same time. Just as Dion made it past, he dished to the left for the trey past the left elbow. Swish. Oklahoma was the first ever victim between their chemistry.

    It WAS bound to happen sooner or later. We'll see as we go along when they start working together. I'm looking forward to it.
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  17. #72
    Real Cavs Fan AuxiliaryPie's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Kyrie and Dion chemistry conundrum

    Quote Originally Posted by Tank View Post
    From the viewpoint of a first time reader of this thread where the thread is on topic, then, all of a sudden, you post that, it's just hilarious.

    People have got to think, "what the fuck happened here that I missed?!"
    Delonte and Fried Chicken can derail even the most straightforward of threads

    on topic: really hope they check up on each other in the rising stars game, i wanna see Dion try to shut down Kyrie

  18. #73
    Coming out of his shell.. Lumthemad's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Kyrie and Dion chemistry conundrum

    I also think what you will see is Dion passing the ball to Kyrie first versus the opposite. In many ways, i think Dion is actually the more willing passer. Plus as of right now, Kyrie is clearly the better scorer, so it would also make sense as well for Irving to be the guy being set up for a shot. I still have faith that come year 2 you will start to see them passing the basketball to one another more. A full summer playing together wouln't hurt.

    If they don't develop chemistry, Dion could find himself in the 6th man role and it would still benefit the Cavaliers.
    Sometimes madness is the best kind of logic

  19. #74
    Team Player Henry Tuttle's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Kyrie and Dion chemistry conundrum

    Quote Originally Posted by rabman_gold View Post
    Perhaps I can help. # of games: 1. # of times assisted: once. Play ran: End of 3rd quarter, Dion isolation, he gave a glance to Kyrie to indicate "yeah, I'm setting you up". He started making his move towards the hoop on the left, making enough separation, Kyrie also separated from his defender at the same time. Just as Dion made it past, he dished to the left for the trey past the left elbow. Swish. Oklahoma was the first ever victim between their chemistry.

    It WAS bound to happen sooner or later. We'll see as we go along when they start working together. I'm looking forward to it.
    There was that, the same play on the opposite wing in Sacramento, and maybe one other instance. As far as Kyrie setting up Dion, I can't recall any true assists but I'm sure there have been a few that happened during Dion's better games.

  20. #75
    Rising Star ice cream man's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Kyrie and Dion chemistry conundrum

    Quote Originally Posted by rabman_gold View Post
    Perhaps I can help. # of games: 1. # of times assisted: once. Play ran: End of 3rd quarter, Dion isolation, he gave a glance to Kyrie to indicate "yeah, I'm setting you up". He started making his move towards the hoop on the left, making enough separation, Kyrie also separated from his defender at the same time. Just as Dion made it past, he dished to the left for the trey past the left elbow. Swish. Oklahoma was the first ever victim between their chemistry.

    It WAS bound to happen sooner or later. We'll see as we go along when they start working together. I'm looking forward to it.
    Well, you can go back to the Clippers game where Dion went off . 3rd game of the year I think? You can say that Kyrie and Dion didn't know a whole lot about each other's game compared to now, and they were just playing basketball. Kyrie assisted on 3 of Dion's threes, and two of them were in the clutch. They played off each other on those two. Again, they were just trying to make something happen (not forcing it though..."controlled aggression") and made the right pass.

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