[Gunther]

Originally Posted by Taiter

Buying a baseball team in a smaller market is a waste of money until MLB gets a cap (which it sorely needs). The Tribe wouldn't spend anywhere near the Bankees even if Gilbert owned them.

I agree. But the idea is for Gilbert to keep a steady stream of people revolving through his casino. Theoretically, if he owned the Tribe, he would have more control over this in the long run. He could put out a higher payroll year-by-year than the Dolans can. More people come to the ballpark - therefore, more people go to his casino. How high? Heck, I don't know, but off the top of my head, let's say $100M consistently, maybe more?

I understand that he has to fill the seats at the ballpark, and this takes a winning team. But Gilbert strikes me as the kind of guy that is willing to invest and take a chance for long-term profitability.

Next year, the Tribe will probably have a payroll around $65M. Given our current state of affairs, that is almost reasonable because we don't expect to sell that many tickets or merchandise. But, with a new owner that has deep pockets and a winning philosophy (rather than a mid-market, conservative philosophy), this could change in a reletively short period of time.

[LJ4MVP]

Originally Posted by cmstophe

We're still Cleveland, right? I'm not an economist or financial advisor or anything, but from what I understood, Gilbert would not be putting up Yankees-type payrolls if he owned the Indians. Doesn't he struggle to put up the $90 mil for the Cavs?

I though there was a story that the cavs almost broke even last year. That's certainly good enough if you have a casino across the street. The indians play nearly twice as many games and the stadium holds a bit over twice the number of people as the Q. And this town has clearly shown they will back winning baseball teams, having once sold out 455 consecutive games and 3 times selling out the entire season before opening day. Putting an extra 20,000 people in the stadium or 81 games would generate 50 million or so in revenue. 81*20,000*30 = 48.6 million.

Convince fans that the team is finally heading in the right direction again, and they'll start coming back. More people coming to downtown cleveland means more people in the casino. And the casino, especially if they are coming for events like the NBA finals and World Series.

[LJ4MVP]

Originally Posted by B Mac

There's a practice court on the 4th floor of the Q? I didnt even know there was a 4th floor in that place. Interesting.

the 2nd and 4th floors are the suite levels.

[jvpertz]

The Indians wouldnt spend at Yankees level with Gilbert but they would be right at 90 to 100 million.

You have to remember that a 90 million dollar payroll Indians team would probably sell out, generate higher add revenue on STO, and be a lot more of a money maker than the current squad.

It does figure that 2 of the 3 Cleveland Sports teams would be owned by guys with deep pockets and the one team with the miser happens to own the team in the spend as you please league.

[Vindicate2]

Originally Posted by BlueSeats626

Only if he promises to refrain from turning the Indians game experience into the stupid circus that the Cavs game experience is becoming.

Wonder if the scoreboard would have "The Diff" on it....

Blue seats, point taken, however, if it meant bringing back DJ Mic Boggie on the Pespi homerun porch and it brings in more revenue ... I'm all for it. All I care about is wins.

Rant
I wanted to say this for a while and this seem like a good thread to mention it Dolan continues to complain about revenues of a small/medium market, but does nothing creative to come up with new revenue streams (with the exception of STO which has not brought in as much revenue as expected) .

When Gilbert's (and his partners) revenues could not reach where he needed to go, what did he do ... he brought in a new investor that not only had cash to infuse, but offered a new revenue stream from China.

When Jacobs reached his financial limit in the '90s, what did he do? He went public and sold stock in the team.

I understand that Gilbert has a huge advantage having the most marketable basketball player on the planet, but I'm really tired of the Indians excuse of revenues .... my season ticket has quadrupled since 1994 but the 2009 payroll is not x4 times more than 1994 payroll (66 mil 2009, ~22 mil in 1994),and they have added revenues of STO since 1994!!!!

I think that is the best attribute about Gilbert, he is always looking to make the team more competitive by increasing revenues with out of the box thinking, while Dolan has the "woe as me" attitude and uses the "small market revenue" as a crutch . I used to buy into the Indians "financial limitations" .... I know they will never have a Yankee payroll, however, they have not helped themselves to find new revenue ... they were 24th in payroll last year and I expect them to be in the bottom 5 in the legaue in 2010. You mean to say Tampa Bay should have a higher payroll than Cleveland? That is a choice in my mind .... they could have been more creative, but they choose not to.

/Rant

[LJ4MVP]

this was a late edit to my post above

Putting an extra 20,000 people in the stadium or 81 games would generate 50 million or so in revenue. 81*20,000*30 = 48.6 million.

I'm just guessing at the average ticket price of $30/game. Average attendance for the indians last year was 22,357 - capacity is 43,515.

Regaining that lost revenue is just part of what could be done. Merchandise sales would go up with a winning team that has some high profile players, as would concession sales with higher attendance. A winning team would get more national games, which means the blimp, which means the casino across the street gets free publicity.

And the Yankees aren't really the immediate concern. The Indians are in the central division. Adding $30 million to the payroll should certainly be enough to quickly contend for the playoffs.

[Ruggeder]

Originally Posted by Taiter

Buying a baseball team in a smaller market is a waste of money until MLB gets a cap (which it sorely needs). The Tribe wouldn't spend anywhere near the Bankees even if Gilbert owned them.

People by yankee crap because they win and bandwagon fans will buy anything from winners, which is why i see people wearing philly crap now constantly. because they were in the world series. If he started grabbing up free agents and winning, everyone would buy indians crap and he would sell out every game, get national games, playoff money, and make a profit.

[cmstophe]

Originally Posted by LJ4MVP

this was a late edit to my post above

Putting an extra 20,000 people in the stadium or 81 games would generate 50 million or so in revenue. 81*20,000*30 = 48.6 million.

I'm just guessing at the average ticket price of $30/game. Average attendance for the indians last year was 22,357 - capacity is 43,515.

Regaining that lost revenue is just part of what could be done. Merchandise sales would go up with a winning team that has some high profile players, as would concession sales with higher attendance. A winning team would get more national games, which means the blimp, which means the casino across the street gets free publicity.

And the Yankees aren't really the immediate concern. The Indians are in the central division. Adding $30 million to the payroll should certainly be enough to quickly contend for the playoffs.

Adding $30 million to the payroll would be perfect. The Indians will never spend anywhere near the Yankees, but almost no team will. You make an excellent point- the Indians need to only compete within the Central, as once you hit the playoffs, anything can happen and the playing field is much more even.

A $100 million payroll? I would never complain about the Indians being cheap, ever again. I'd presume we'd be able to keep some stars, too, when they hit FA.

[SmknJoe7]

It will be a long, long time before they begin to pack the Jake(yes I know that's not the name anymore, but I refuse to call it the Prog or whatever idiot name they want it to be nowadays) like they used to. Just throwing out figures is baseless and hollow. The city is in a financial distress, the overall economy is terrible, and this has always been a Browns town first, and the Cavs have begun to creep close to that level. The days of 400+ consecutive sellouts are long gone with the aura of a new stadium and all the fresh ticket contracts that came with it. The team has a terrible history of drafting under Shapiro and with the current payroll projected to be shrinking even more, that is a terrible combination. Small markets like this one need excellent drafting to succeed and Shap is a failure there. Hell, we couldn't even pack the place when we were leading the AL in pitching AND hitting a couple of years ago when we lost to Boston in the ALCS. It wasn't until we got near the playoffs did we even begin to start going over 30,000 and that was in a much less distressed economy.

It takes a lot more than simply adding some payroll to get it done in MLB. Believe it or not, the Tribe actually started the season middle of the pack in payroll this past year. It wasn't until we completely tanked that our payroll sank to the bottom third of the league. This team needs nearly an entirely new starting rotation, half a pen, half an infield, etc.

[SmknJoe7]

Originally Posted by cmstophe

Adding $30 million to the payroll would be perfect. The Indians will never spend anywhere near the Yankees, but almost no team will. You make an excellent point- the Indians need to only compete within the Central, as once you hit the playoffs, anything can happen and the playing field is much more even.

A $100 million payroll? I would never complain about the Indians being cheap, ever again. I'd presume we'd be able to keep some stars, too, when they hit FA.

Well, I believe the beginning of the season payroll was about 85 mil or so and we were flat out terrible. Again, when we can get a a GM who knows how to draft and not just trade away the little bit of legit talent we do have for other teams drafted studs we'll be much better off.

[Vindicate2]

Originally Posted by cmstophe

Adding $30 million to the payroll would be perfect. The Indians will never spend anywhere near the Yankees, but almost no team will. You make an excellent point- the Indians need to only compete within the Central, as once you hit the playoffs, anything can happen and the playing field is much more even.

A $100 million payroll? I would never complain about the Indians being cheap, ever again. I'd presume we'd be able to keep some stars, too, when they hit FA.

Good point. If you added 30 mil, you probably keep CC.

[Vindicate2]

Originally Posted by SmknJoe7

Well, I believe the beginning of the season payroll was about 85 mil or so and we were flat out terrible. Again, when we can get a a GM who knows how to draft and not just trade away the little bit of legit talent we do have for other teams drafted studs we'll be much better off.

True, but if you don't sign Wood and you reigned CC for 25 mil, you are 100 mil. At least you would have an Ace to build around.

[SmknJoe7]

Originally Posted by Vindicate2

True, but if you don't sign Wood and you reigned CC for 25 mil, you are 100 mil. At least you would have an Ace to build around.

Not really. We were at 85 to start the year. That'd be 110mil. Not to mention, who is closing then? Jensen Lewis? Perez? Closer has been a sore spot and had to be addressed. It's just not as easy as adding a few bucks here and there. Shap's continued drafting idiocy has put us far, far behind what it takes to contend with a realistic payroll.

[cmstophe]

Originally Posted by SmknJoe7

Well, I believe the beginning of the season payroll was about 85 mil or so and we were flat out terrible. Again, when we can get a a GM who knows how to draft and not just trade away the little bit of legit talent we do have for other teams drafted studs we'll be much better off.

it was $80, but think about where that money was invested.... Guys like Westbrook and Hafner who are basically useless, plus that really isn't a huge payroll at all.

$100 million is a significant upgrade over $80.

edit: plus, the drafting has been improved, in theory...I know they have made adjustments. we wont know if it works for a few years.

[SmknJoe7]

Originally Posted by cmstophe

it was $80, but think about where that money was invested.... Guys like Westbrook and Hafner who are basically useless, plus that really isn't a huge payroll at all.

$100 million is a significant upgrade over $80.

edit: plus, the drafting has been improved, in theory...I know they have made adjustments. we wont know if it works for a few years.

It was actually 81.58mil and was dead middle of MLB, not shabby at all for a crud market. We spent more than St Louis, Minnesota, Colorado, Texas, etc. Revisionist thinking about Hafner always cracks me up. He was a beast when he was signed and Jake was worth every penny he got. Actually, a healthy Westbrook is about our only truely known commodity in the starting rotation. There's guys like Jake and Pronk on every single roster in MLB. The problem is drafting, plain and simple. This "theory" that we have improved drafting sure flew by me. The proof is in the pudding and right now I ain't seein no pudding. Our best prospects have been acquired from other team's systems. Our number one drafted pitching prospect goes on the DL for months at a time for blisters.

Eh, I'm stopping now as this is totally the wrong avenue for my bitching, but it goes much further than some owner dropping an extra dime or two into the kitty for this team to get straight and find its way back into the pocketbooks of its fans.