2018 Draft Prospects Thread

[Triplethreat]

We've shown numerous examples of that not being the case, but blaming his offensive line isn't doing him a service.

There are so many guys who can do similar things in this draft, and given the Browns need for downhill running to go along with Duke's dynamic playmaking ability, the choice becomes so easy.

It's a hard pass on Barkley for me unless its at 33.

I can go around and nitpick 3-5 plays for every single RB in the draft and already in the NFL where the same thing happens.

When he runs downhill he's as elite as they come at it. He's probably going to run a 4.3 40 at the combine. His physical skills are immediately one of the best in the league at the position day 1, if not the best. He immediately becomes the best safety valve outside of Bell in the league, and for a young QB in Cleveland. (See how well this has worked for/helped Goff).

 

[AZ_]

When he runs downhill he's as elite as they come at it.

No, he's simply not...

At this point you're just saying things which have been shown as weaknesses and calling them strengths without any substance. We've provided multiple examples, multiple games in which this has shown to be a problem.

There's no real reason to keep having this conversation.


Do you know what "confirmation bias" is?

 

[Triplethreat]

No, he's simply not...

At this point you're just saying things which have been shown as weaknesses and calling them strengths without any substance. We've provided multiple examples, multiple games in which this has shown to be a problem.

There's no real reason to keep having this conversation.


Do you know what "confirmation bias" is?

When I have more time I'll come back to this and provide numerous "elite" downhill runs he's had throughout his Penn State career.

 

[Urban]

I can go around and nitpick 3-5 plays for every single RB in the draft and already in the NFL where the same thing happens.

When he runs downhill he's as elite as they come at it. He's probably going to run a 4.3 40 at the combine. His physical skills are immediately one of the best in the league at the position day 1, if not the best. He immediately becomes the best safety valve outside of Bell in the league, and for a young QB in Cleveland. (See how well this has worked for/helped Goff).

I'm not nearly as down on Barkley as boobie, just would prefer value-based alternatives. But this is the part of Barkley's game I think I like the most. Getting him the ball in space on swing passes and such and letting him do the rest.

 

[OptimusPrime]

Michel > Barkley

This video is the spitting image of another Georgia Bulldog. One that has been on the Browns roster the last few years.

No, that doesn't mean they're similar players. It's one highlight package from one game against Vanderbilt. But there's nothing in that video that suggests he's a better prospect than Barkley. I like how he runs hard. There are no special attributes there though. He'll hit the hole if you open one for him. If you don't, he's not going to find one.

 

[AZ_]

When I have more time I'll come back to this and provide numerous "elite" downhill runs he's had throughout his Penn State career.

I'm certain there are plenty. But I can provide you with dozens of examples of dancing and stopping his feet in the backfield.

If you think this is about absolutes, you'd be incorrect. Of course he CAN and has hit the hole tough on occasions. He doesn't do it with the consistency of other elite backs, and that's a huge red flag.

But whatever makes you feel better, man. You've dug in, no amount of film or illustrated examples is going to sway you.

I've watched literally all available games from Barkley this year. I know what I've seen, and so have others.

The rest of us can be honest about the flaws in his game.

 

[Lee]

Because value relative to the running back position is less than the value relative to other positions. Especially given that one of Barkley's best assets relative to Cleveland is marginalized by Duke Johnson, who is a dynamic all-purpose back.

There are simply better, more valuable, safer players available who don't have a glaring flaw in the one aspect the Browns need most, downhill running.

I think value should be mentioned too. The value if both barkley and minkah for what they do is different. A true shut down corner with the versatility of Minkah is possibly the third most valuable position behind QB, and superior edge rusher. I personally really like Barkley as a prospect, but if he is there and Minkah is there, no way do I pass on Minkah, just to valuable.

And if we are thinking of taking Barkley 1st overall, I am sure you agree that is just insanity. You have to take a qb overall, and it is a very short list on who that should be.

Besides my latest man crush running back right now is Sony Michel and i would be willing to take him early 2nd if I was gm. I just hope his combine doesnt throw him into late 1st territory.

 

[Ohio]

I have been team Minkah with RG I think? Or Rob? for quite a bit now, as probably 80% of people on here has been too. So, that is still my pick if he "falls" to 4.

Other than that, I have been up & down on Barkley. He can make crazy plays, but as people like AZ, Urban, and almost everyone not named TripleThreat on here, he has 1-2 monster plays. Other than that, I think he ran like how DeMarco Murray did this year. Horrible to compare to Murray? No. But watching him run (had him on my fantasy team) was painful most of the time.

As I said a long time ago, this RB class is absolutely stacked. We pray that Rosen is #1, Minkah #4.

Yes. Thinking back, it is funny how much shit I got a few months ago saying I didn't want Barkley in the top 5 but wanted Minkah instead. Back when Barkley was at peak Heisman hype.

 

[Lee]

Fitz will need a little work on outside man to man coverage. He never really played outside at Bama.

But when he is into the route, he is as smart, explosive and difficult to beat as someone like Patrick Peterson or Jalen Ramsey. Combine that with excellent leadership skills, ability to play the run and always on the field no matter what.

Fitzpatrick is a no brainer. Its not even close. At worst, he becomes Eric Weddle and at his ceiling, he could easily be a total shutdown a side of the field corner.

Fun fact, one of my best friends is engaged to Weddle's sister. Great guy, family man. PS this is his last year, I know, shocking.

 

[Triplethreat]

I'm certain there are plenty. But I can provide you with dozens of examples of dancing and stopping his feet in the backfield.

If you think this is about absolutes, you'd be incorrect. Of course he CAN and has hit the hole tough on occasions. He doesn't do it with the consistency of other elite backs, and that's a huge red flag.

But whatever makes you feel better, man. You've dug in, no amount of film or illustrated examples is going to sway you.

I've watched literally all available games from Barkley this year. I know what I've seen, and so have others.

The rest of us can be honest about the flaws in his game.

Sure.

Which is oddly why real, NFL pro scouts who have actual jobs in this field are saying Barkley is the best back they've seen since at least Elliot. A lot of scouts have him as the best player in the entire field.

But I guess if the RCF All Star says he's only worthy of 33, we should trust that one instead.

Seems.... aboyt right.

 

[AZ_]

I'm not nearly as down on Barkley as boobie, just would prefer value-based alternatives. But this is the part of Barkley's game I think I like the most. Getting him the ball in space on swing passes and such and letting him do the rest.

"Best safety valve in the league behind Bell" is just an absurd oversell.

He's good at catching passes out of the backfield, but he's no better at it than McCaffrey was last year. It's a nice quality to have, but saying he's better than Gurley, Kamara, McCaffrey, Johnson, Dion Lewis, etc.

Laughable.

 

[AZ_]

Sure.

Which is oddly why real, NFL pro scouts who have actual jobs in this field are saying Barkley is the best back they've seen since at least Elliot. A lot of scouts have him as the best player in the entire field.

But I guess if the RCF All Star says he's only worthy of 33, we should trust that one instead.

Seems.... aboyt right.

Literally scouts are the people saying he dances too much. Read literally any scouting report on the guy.

We don't have to do this, man.


You don't have to play the "well you're not a scout" card just because he's going to be picked in the first round. We don't have to go over the countless busts who pro scouts loved in the first round.

Nauseating.


If you can't be honest about the guys flaws, that's fine. Like I said, he can be a tremendously valuable player in this league, but your obsession with speaking in absolutes and hyperbole is enough for me. You're getting into silly season a bit early.

 

[Lee]

I have been team Minkah with RG I think? Or Rob? for quite a bit now, as probably 80% of people on here has been too. So, that is still my pick if he "falls" to 4.

Other than that, I have been up & down on Barkley. He can make crazy plays, but as people like AZ, Urban, and almost everyone not named TripleThreat on here, he has 1-2 monster plays. Other than that, I think he ran like how DeMarco Murray did this year. Horrible to compare to Murray? No. But watching him run (had him on my fantasy team) was painful most of the time.

As I said a long time ago, this RB class is absolutely stacked. We pray that Rosen is #1, Minkah #4.

Latest Draftwire 4 rounder:

1. Cleveland Browns | Josh Rosen | QB | UCLA
If new general manager John Dorsey is going to hit the reset button at quarterback, Rosen makes the most sense. He’s got his flaws, but Rosen’s the most pro-ready passer in this year’s class.

4. Cleveland Browns (from HOU) | Minkah Fitzpatrick | DB | Alabama
It would be hard for the Browns to pass on Saquon Barkley here, but they’ve already got some solid options in the backfield, with a much more glaring need for a difference-maker in the secondary. Fitzpatrick’s versatility will make him a dangerous defensive weapon at the next level.

33. Cleveland Browns | Courtland Sutton | WR | SMU

(now I know this is a mock and it's pretty much harder to predict than beating a Thai guy in ping pong, but the only 2 RB's taken in the 1st were Barkley/Guice. That leaves us with a LITTER to pick from with any of our 2nd's - see later.)

36. Cleveland Browns (from HOU) | Jaire Alexander | CB | Louisville

63. Cleveland Browns (from PHI) | Sony Michel | RB | Georgia

(don't know if he would fall this far, but the only RB taken ahead of him was Ronald Jones II. Now if we land either of those, or Chubb, Johnson, Harris, Penny, Freeman.....we are happy as hell to nab them with our last 2nd rounder. Just because this RB class is so stacked doesn't mean teams are going to sweep them up. Teams have other needs.

Teams who need a RB "way" ahead of other positions that I can think of off top of my head? NYG, Colts? Jets? Bucs? We can sit and wait and be happy as hell with a 2nd round RB. There will be plenty to choose from)

65. Cleveland Browns | D.J. Moore | WR | Maryland

97. Cleveland Browns | Josey Jewell | LB | Iowa

120. Cleveland Browns (from CAR) | Jaylen Samuels | RB/TE/WR | North Carolina State

While this draft gives me wood, no way does it go down like this. Sutton isnt getting out of the 1st round, and Michel is going early 2nd, maybe late 1st with his recent success and buzz.

But to get both, and Minkah and Rosen? Yes please, sign me up.

I also like the Jaire pick who some have as a first round, but I think could last to one of our early 2nd round picks.

 

[Urban]

The "best RB since AP" has gotten tiring. Heard it with Richardson, and now 4 years in a row with Gurley, Zeke, Fournette and now Barkley.

Fournette was probably the best pure comparison to AP, but Zeke was the only one of those guys I truly bought into as being worth an top pick.

 

[AZ_]

While this draft gives me wood, no way does it go down like this. Sutton isnt getting out of the 1st round, and Minel is going early 2nd, maybe late 1st with his recent success and buzz.

But to get both, and Minkah and Rosen? Yes please, sign me up.

I also like the Jaire pick who some have as a first round, but I think could last to one of our early 2nd round picks.

Alexander is a hell of a prospect, has some issues, but presents a pretty good second round value.

Really want to give a full work through of the character though.