2017 ALDS | Indians vs Yankees

[pl4tinum]

I'm also bitter that, instead of getting to bask indefinitely in OUR ONE CHAMPIONSHIP, fate (or The Cleveland Curse) comes back with two of the most crushing disappointments in the history of NE Ohio sports! Like, where else does this kind of shit HAPPEN?!

Buffalo.

 

[I'mWithDan]

God, a bunch of you are being complete fucking pussies. I get bitchy during the games, but some of the dramatic shit you all are posting today would make Shakespeare blush.

Pussies? I think it is more a healthy dose of realism, which many on the "other side" seems to lack.

The odds of us getting back to a WS are relatively slim. We're in a bad division, so that helps but we're about to see significant turnover in addition to the yearly randomness that is baseball. As well as going head to head with teams like NYY and HOU who, quite frankly, have more young talent than we do (and NYY has about 4X the financial resources).

Indians are poised to lose their best reliever and one of their best 4-5 hitters on a team that only has 4-5 hitters. It could even be 2 of their best 5 hitters if the market for Bruce is robust.

That's why it's a little more bleak for me. Can anyone even imagine how horrendous our offense will be in the PS if we lose Carlos and replace him with a player who is worse or significantly worse? Or if we lost BOTH Carlos and Bruce? Yikes. The starting rotation is really the only spot on the roster without question marks.

Next year is the year where we need to see a significant breakthrough from our farm system IMO. We need an injection of hitting youth, especially at the bottom of the lineup. Yandy, Meija, etc. just really need to take that next step for us to be successful IMO. And I deem success as not winning a bad division but actually having a lineup, top to bottom, that can win a WS. We have to find a way to cycle out the auto outs in this lineup, wether it be through the farm system, free agency or moving a pitching asset.

I'd also hope that Lindor and Ramirez ratchet up a level. If being completely embarrassed like they were doesn't light a significantly obvious fire under their ass then I'd be concerned about what that means for the long term.

Not overreacting to one series here and not trying to be negative, we will just enter 2018 with quite a few question marks, especially for a team that has appeared in back-to-back post seasons. There's a lot of people who are talking like we'll just show up next year and get another chance......which while likely, isn't a given.

Championship windows don't stay open very long for small market teams and I think a lot of people are overestating just how wide that window is for the Indians. They have a lot of key guys locked up, no doubt but we also have several key players coming up for FA where it is unlikely we re-sign them or (have the means) to replace them with a comparable player.

 

[KilgoreTrout]

Brantley. Kipnis. Miller. I didn't feel confident in any of them.

We could have used Chisenhall and Jackson for the series without relying on Brantley at all. And hell, ever Lonnie was coming back from injury. Brantley was a complete non-factor two games in a row after not able to play in the regular season. He was certainly the biggest issue for me. Watching him at the plate was torture. Could've used Diaz instead of doubling down on defense (where the team let us down anyway).



Going with Bauer in Game 4 still doesn't really make sense IMO. Tomlin went 2 innings in Game 2. Clev probably should have been the 4th starter anyway. It just felt like we had the pitching staff we needed and somehow got stretched thin again, which is really frustrating.



Eh, fair. That's really more of a carry-over from last year's frustration. He should have gotten a start in the WS after his ALCS performance given how burnt out our starters were.



No. I'm putting some blame on him for the lineup but obviously I called out our players...



He was also coming back from injury and didn't look that good. He seemed to get in trouble every time he was on the mound. But looking back at the stats, he wasn't bad, so you're right. It just wasn't the same dominance we saw in the AL playoffs last year.



It's just a bit of venting after a shit series. You've defended Tito well.

If Kluber wasn't 100% healthy, why didn't we see Carrasco twice? He was our second-best starter throughout the year. And why not start Clevinger once?

If you find out, in Game 2, that Kluber is not 100% (which he obviously was not), then you at least have Carrasco-Kluber-Bauer-Clevinger-Carrasco, all on full rest.

Using only 3 starters, and using Carrasco only once, made ZERO sense.

 

[Chris]

Pussies? I think it is more a healthy dose of realism, which many on the "other side" seems to lack.

The odds of us getting back to a WS are relatively slim. We're in a bad division, so that helps but we're about to see significant turnover in addition to the yearly randomness that is baseball. As well as going head to head with teams like NYY and HOU who, quite frankly, have more young talent than we do.

Indians are poised to lose their best reliever and one of their best 4-5 hitters on a team that only has 4-5 hitters. It could even be 2 of their best 5 hitters if the market for Bruce is robust.

That's why it's a little more bleak for me. Can anyone even imagine how horrendous our offense will be in the PS if we lose Carlos and replace him with a player who is worse or significantly worse? Or if we lost BOTH Carlos and Bruce? Yikes. The starting rotation is really the only spot on the roster without question marks.

Next year is the year where we need to see a significant breakthrough from our farm system IMO. We need an injection of hitting youth, especially at the bottom of the lineup. Yandy, Meija, etc. just really need to take that next step for us to be successful IMO. And I deem success as not winning a bad division but actually having a lineup, top to bottom, that can win a WS. We have to find a way to cycle out the auto outs in this lineup, wether it be through the farm system, free agency or moving a pitching asset.

I'd also hope that Lindor and Ramirez ratchet up a level. If being completely embarrassed like they were doesn't light a significantly obvious fire under their ass then I'd be concerned about what that means for the long term.

Not overreacting to one series here and not trying to be negative, we will just enter 2018 with quite a few question marks, especially for a team that has appeared in back-to-back post seasons. There's a lot of people who are talking like we'll just show up next year and get another chance......which while likely, isn't a given.

Championship windows don't stay open very long for small market teams and I think a lot of people are overestimating just how wide that window is for the Indians. They have a lot of key guys locked up, no doubt but we also have several key players coming up for FA where it is unlikely we re-sign them or (have the means) to replace them with a comparable player.

I mean, this is why I am not that upbeat either. Expecting Lindor or Ramirez to improve significantly is just unrealistic. Do you mean get better when it matters? Because there is plenty of room for postseason improvements from them, but man, their hitting over the regular season was stellar. What, is Ramirez gonna hit 70 doubles next year instead of 60?

I agree that this was probably the best this team was gonna be, at least overall. I doubt they sniff 100 wins next year, but that does NOT mean they won't go further in October or even win it all.

 

[Ohio]

I do know I will care much less about what happens in the regular season.

Yeah, that's another part of this that sucks. This season was so much fun, so enjoyable, and now it means nothing. There's one memory of the 2017 Indians and it's a massive choking failure against an inferior team.

I will watch next season & support as always, but it will be difficult to enjoy. Because all I will think about is how 2017 ended until the 2018 playoffs start. This is nothing new for most of us, though. The Browns haven't had an enjoyable season in my life and the Cavs haven't had an enjoyable regular season since 2010.

Hopefully this doesn't deter people from going to games next season, but I bet it does. I do not expect attendance to increase once again.

Side note...god what a disappointing sports year. Ohio State got waxed by Clemson (and Oklahoma), Cavs were outmanned, Indians choke, Browns are as shitty as ever.

Ohio State is still alive, but when they're out of it...fuck 2017

 

[buzzdog]

I thought Bauer pitched pretty well in game 4. UNTIL fucking Urshella booted what should have been asure out. Bauer is kind of fragile that way, and I think he would have kept rolling through the Yankee order IF our so-called defensive specialist wouldn't have blown it doing the one fucking thing he is supposed to be good at.

Same thing for all the other egregious defensive errors our guys made. If this team was anything, they were supposed to be competent with the glove. I was pissed that Tito put Kip in center and Jose on 2nd, should have been Kip on 2nd, Jose on 3rd, and Jackson in the OF. (Of course even Jackson booted a simple grounder so who knows? They all just shit the bed.)

 

[Chris]

Yeah, that's another part of this that sucks. This season was so much fun, so enjoyable, and now it means nothing. There's one memory of the 2017 Indians and it's a massive choking failure against an inferior team.

I will watch next season & support as always, but it will be difficult to enjoy. Because all I will think about is how 2017 ended until the 2018 playoffs start. This is nothing new for most of us, though. The Browns haven't had an enjoyable season in my life and the Cavs haven't had an enjoyable regular season since 2010.

Hopefully this doesn't deter people from going to games next season, but I bet it does. I do not expect attendance to increase once again.

Side note...god what a disappointing sports year. Ohio State got waxed by Clemson (and Oklahoma), Cavs were outmanned, Indians choke, Browns are as shitty as ever.

Ohio State is still alive, but when they're out of it...fuck 2017

Yeah, I was thinking about this today too while driving around aimlessly pretending to work. 2016 was an incredible sports year, 2017 not so much. I could argue that 2014-2016 was the greatest stretch of sports for us in my lifetime, with the Buckeyes incredible season, the Indians going to the WS and finally putting together a young, talented team that can compete, and of course LeBron coming home and the subsequent Cavs championship (notice how the Browns are absent here, they blew like always during this period). EDIT: Jesus H Christ I forgot the Browns actually had a 7-9 season thrown in there somewhere, like holy fuck that 2 year stretch was so magical even the Browns had a mediocre year.

Fuck, what a fun time those couple years were.

It's all over.

Sports are cyclical. It's a shame that in Cleveland these times seem to last for a good year or two while cities like Boston get two decades of sports triumphs.

 

[KilgoreTrout]

Buffalo.

They've only gotten their souls crushed a couple of times. Not repeatedly, over a period of 40 years.

 

[godfather]

I mean, this is why I am not that upbeat either. Expecting Lindor or Ramirez to improve significantly is just unrealistic. Do you mean get better when it matters? Because there is plenty of room for postseason improvements from them, but man, their hitting over the regular season was stellar. What, is Ramirez gonna hit 70 doubles next year instead of 60?

I agree that this was probably the best this team was gonna be, at least overall. I doubt they sniff 100 wins next year, but that does NOT mean they won't go further in October or even win it all.

No team can win, when literally everyone of their best players didn't perform well at all.

Lindor, Ramirez, Miller (he wasn't very good for his standards), and Kluber, all, well, sucked.

Even if we somehow won last night, I don't think I'd feel very confident in our chances if all those guys just weren't going to show.

Usually in the post-season, there's always one, or two, of your best players that just don't perform well. But literally all of them for us. Fuck.

 

[Mr. Orange]

This isn't even remotely true. They were definitely the best team in baseball.

Their run differential topped everyone. The true stat, that tells you how good that team really is.

They were a +254. That's fucking, elite bro.

The Yankees were the second best team in baseball, just under 200. That led everyone after us.

It's bad fucking luck we just happen to play the second best team in the first round.

But still, we were definitely, by far, the best team in baseball this year. Wasn't even close. So we can't cry over playing them. We should have beaten them. We were the better team, they just played better, and we fucking gagged. Badly.

Which is why losing like this hurts. We will never likely see an Indians team this good in a long time.

That's why its funny when people in the game thread are talking about who should go, stays. There's no way to get better. Next year's team might still be good, and hell, go further in the playoffs, but odds are it won't be remotely as good as this team was.

We had a special team, it ended with nothing.

Sure, and the Celtics were better than the Cavs last year...

This young Yankee team got better and better as the year went on, and by October they soundly beat us, really it should have been over in 4. As I said, last year may have been our best, last chance in our lifetimes. The ALDS wasn't as close as 3-2. We were the inferior team and got our butts kicked.

 

[Chris]

We were the inferior team in the best of 5 series, that's for sure.

 

[CBBI]

I agree that this was probably the best this team was gonna be, at least overall. I doubt they sniff 100 wins next year, but that does NOT mean they won't go further in October or even win it all.

I don't see any reason why they wouldn't still have a very legitimate chance at 100 wins next year.

Losing Santana or Bruce, and there's no guarantee they won't keep one of them, shouldn't crater the offense.

If they bring back Shaw and Smith, and realistically they should have the financial means to at least do that, would mean the entire greatest pitching staff of all time by Fangraphs WAR would be fully intact.

The Royals, Tigers and White Sox are all going to be bad next year. The Twins are seemingly at best a mid 80s win team. Given the state of the division, my guess Vegas sets next year's Indians O/U remarkably high.

I don't think 100 wins is out of the question at all.

 

[-Akronite-]

I don't see any reason why they wouldn't still have a very legitimate chance at 100 wins next year.

Losing Santana or Bruce, and there's no guarantee they won't keep one of them, shouldn't crater the offense.

If they bring back Shaw and Smith, and realistically they should have the financial means to at least do that, would mean the entire greatest pitching staff of all time by Fangraphs WAR would be fully intact.

The Royals, Tigers and White Sox are all going to be bad next year. The Twins are seemingly at best a mid 80s win team. Given the state of the division, my guess Vegas sets next year's Indians O/U remarkably high.

I don't think 100 wins is out of the question at all.

100 wins is tough. We've only done it, what, 3 times now in our history?

But who cares, no reason we can't take the division again next year and take another swing at the postseason.

 

[Chris]

I don't see any reason why they wouldn't still have a very legitimate chance at 100 wins next year.

Losing Santana or Bruce, and there's no guarantee they won't keep one of them, shouldn't crater the offense.

If they bring back Shaw and Smith, and realistically they should have the financial means to at least do that, would mean the entire greatest pitching staff of all time by Fangraphs WAR would be fully intact.

The Royals, Tigers and White Sox are all going to be bad next year. The Twins are seemingly at best a mid 80s win team. Given the state of the division, my guess Vegas sets next year's Indians O/U remarkably high.

I don't think 100 wins is out of the question at all.

Losing Santana would be significant, as much as some people don't want to admit that. Hopefully they keep him.

Good point on the AL Central. I asked earlier if the Indians winning 100 was a product of a weak division and nobody answered.

 

[Mr. Orange]

Yeah, that's another part of this that sucks. This season was so much fun, so enjoyable, and now it means nothing. There's one memory of the 2017 Indians and it's a massive choking failure against an inferior team.

I will watch next season & support as always, but it will be difficult to enjoy. Because all I will think about is how 2017 ended until the 2018 playoffs start. This is nothing new for most of us, though. The Browns haven't had an enjoyable season in my life and the Cavs haven't had an enjoyable regular season since 2010.

Hopefully this doesn't deter people from going to games next season, but I bet it does. I do not expect attendance to increase once again.

Side note...god what a disappointing sports year. Ohio State got waxed by Clemson (and Oklahoma), Cavs were outmanned, Indians choke, Browns are as shitty as ever.

Ohio State is still alive, but when they're out of it...fuck 2017

Yeah 2017 has been a "disaster" and it really started in January. SAD! I wonder what the reason could be?