2018-2019 Around The NBA thread

[czvo]

Personally, my issue with Ayton is that I don't know how effective he can be as a floor spacer and I question whether he will ever be able to have the defensive versatility needed of a championship caliber big man. There were also substantial talk about his mentality not being the greatest, though I think that's probably a bit too nebulous at this point to make a judgment call on either way. To sum it all up I don't doubt for a second that he will be able to produce like an all star, but I still seriously question whether he will ever be the type of guy you can expect to meaningfully contribute at a championship level.

He's an incredible athlete, best in the draft bar none, and he moves with an effortlessness that is amazing to behold. I just wonder if that will ever translate into actual tangible success at the highest level.

Why are you concerned about him as a floor space? He's going to be a finisher/lob threat first. If he develops a three point shot, that's just gravy.

 

[blommen]

Why are you concerned about him as a floor space? He's going to be a finisher/lob threat first. If he develops a three point shot, that's just gravy.

I'm worried about him as a floor spacer because it clogs the paint for the other players. I believe it was one of the Chasedown Podcast guys who made the point on twitter that if you're a center who is bad defensively, your offense has to be extremely potent in order to offset that difference, simply because of how important it is to have a defensively versatile center these days. Ayton has issues defensively and while he is a potent offensive player I'm not sure he will be able to properly offset his defense without the ability to spread the floor and attack defenders on the perimeter.

To be clear, this is coming from someone who is not a big fan of post-up possessions in the modern NBA in general and I'm probably colored by that to a certain extent. Now, a way for him to compensate for some of this would be his ability to pass out of the post and if he's willing to take on that role that could be what turns him into a more vesatile offensive weapon, but as it is I think he's a bit too one dimensional offensively to make up for his defense.

 

[NorthCoastBias]

View: https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1052952238489051136

 

[czvo]

I'm worried about him as a floor spacer because it clogs the paint for the other players. I believe it was one of the Chasedown Podcast guys who made the point on twitter that if you're a center who is bad defensively, your offense has to be extremely potent in order to offset that difference, simply because of how important it is to have a defensively versatile center these days. Ayton has issues defensively and while he is a potent offensive player I'm not sure he will be able to properly offset his defense without the ability to spread the floor and attack defenders on the perimeter.

To be clear, this is coming from someone who is not a big fan of post-up possessions in the modern NBA in general and I'm probably colored by that to a certain extent. Now, a way for him to compensate for some of this would be his ability to pass out of the post and if he's willing to take on that role that could be what turns him into a more vesatile offensive weapon, but as it is I think he's a bit too one dimensional offensively to make up for his defense.

I don't know. I'm someone that believes bigs should be as skilled as possible, but can also recognize that not being able to shoot threes isn't a deathknell. He's already shown a jumper out to 18 feet. I think he'll be fine.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

I'm worried about him as a floor spacer because it clogs the paint for the other players. I believe it was one of the Chasedown Podcast guys who made the point on twitter that if you're a center who is bad defensively, your offense has to be extremely potent in order to offset that difference, simply because of how important it is to have a defensively versatile center these days. Ayton has issues defensively and while he is a potent offensive player I'm not sure he will be able to properly offset his defense without the ability to spread the floor and attack defenders on the perimeter.

To be clear, this is coming from someone who is not a big fan of post-up possessions in the modern NBA in general and I'm probably colored by that to a certain extent. Now, a way for him to compensate for some of this would be his ability to pass out of the post and if he's willing to take on that role that could be what turns him into a more vesatile offensive weapon, but as it is I think he's a bit too one dimensional offensively to make up for his defense.

I think you need to take into account that the NBA somewhat changed in the off-season (if tis trend continues). The whistles and the freedom of movement has to change some of your projections, no?

If this continues, post up possession will become more efficient. It will be tougher to defend in single coverage (especially against a switch) and this will result in more open 3pt shots. Now, if the refs will continue to call fouls on moving screens, dominant post up players will have a chance top create even more open looks than via screens.

I'm not convinced that Ayton is that strong. So far he hasn't really overpowered players in the post. His mid range is money and he moves well. Not very advanced yet or very dominant in that regard.

You are talking about Ayton being a negative defensive player. And I gotta tell you the truth...I don't see it. He looks like a big positive there so far.

My issue with Ayton if you want to be critical is that he is one of the worst screeners I have seen. Barely makes contract. He compensates by rolling hard to the rim, being more athletic than other bigs and being skilled for a big man.

 

[TyGuy]

The Rockets already have to be regretting Melo. Man that was stupid to bring that guy in. Such an anti D Morey move. Can't wait for the inevitable drama when his minutes start to dwindle.

 

[blommen]

I think you need to take into account that the NBA somewhat changed in the off-season (if tis trend continues). The whistles and the freedom of movement has to change some of your projections, no?

If this continues, post up possession will become more efficient. It will be tougher to defend in single coverage (especially against a switch) and this will result in more open 3pt shots. Now, if the refs will continue to call fouls on moving screens, dominant post up players will have a chance top create even more open looks than via screens.

I'm not convinced that Ayton is that strong. So far he hasn't really overpowered players in the post. His mid range is money and he moves well. Not very advanced yet or very dominant in that regard.

You are talking about Ayton being a negative defensive player. And I gotta tell you the truth...I don't see it. He looks like a big positive there so far.

My issue with Ayton if you want to be critical is that he is one of the worst screeners I have seen. Barely makes contract. He compensates by rolling hard to the rim, being more athletic than other bigs and being skilled for a big man.

No you're right that is definitely a shift that is worth considerating, but like you said yourself, Ayton is weirdly averse to going for contact, he generally plays a lot more timid than you'd expect from someone with that kind of physique. I also just have a hard time putting that much faith in the refs on a fundamental level.

Defensively I guess we're just gonna have agree to disagree so far. I don't think you can trust Ayton to be a defensive positive going up against elite offenses. He's not Marvin Bagley, but he's still not what I'd want a number one pick to be.

 

[Jordan]

I'm worried about him as a floor spacer because it clogs the paint for the other players. I believe it was one of the Chasedown Podcast guys who made the point on twitter that if you're a center who is bad defensively, your offense has to be extremely potent in order to offset that difference, simply because of how important it is to have a defensively versatile center these days. Ayton has issues defensively and while he is a potent offensive player I'm not sure he will be able to properly offset his defense without the ability to spread the floor and attack defenders on the perimeter.

To be clear, this is coming from someone who is not a big fan of post-up possessions in the modern NBA in general and I'm probably colored by that to a certain extent. Now, a way for him to compensate for some of this would be his ability to pass out of the post and if he's willing to take on that role that could be what turns him into a more vesatile offensive weapon, but as it is I think he's a bit too one dimensional offensively to make up for his defense.

That's a bit oversimplified, but your point is correct.

So every NBA player contributes on both offense and defense. Because true centers are large, and generally play as a pivot defender, their defense is magnified. I.E., if it is good, it has a huge positive impact; but, if it is bad, the defense will totally bleed points.

Consequently, a bad defense center needs to cover a lot of ground on offense to outweigh their negative impact as a defender. The problem is, most things a center can do to create offense are low impact. He basically needs to be very good at three of the following: passing, offense initiation, screening and rolling, or three-point shooting.

Ayton is already a bad screener and great roller, but he needs to work on the other facets, or become a net-neutral defender. The reason I am not high on him is that I just do not see a lot of room for him to improve in all of those other facets. If he does, though, he is such a talented athlete that he will become a huge contributor.

 

[Real Deal]

G League games about to be on ESPN!!!

RIP LaVar Ball's league 2018-2018

 

[Jordan]

I think you need to take into account that the NBA somewhat changed in the off-season (if tis trend continues). The whistles and the freedom of movement has to change some of your projections, no?

If this continues, post up possession will become more efficient. It will be tougher to defend in single coverage (especially against a switch) and this will result in more open 3pt shots. Now, if the refs will continue to call fouls on moving screens, dominant post up players will have a chance top create even more open looks than via screens.

I'm not convinced that Ayton is that strong. So far he hasn't really overpowered players in the post. His mid range is money and he moves well. Not very advanced yet or very dominant in that regard.

You are talking about Ayton being a negative defensive player. And I gotta tell you the truth...I don't see it. He looks like a big positive there so far.

My issue with Ayton if you want to be critical is that he is one of the worst screeners I have seen. Barely makes contract. He compensates by rolling hard to the rim, being more athletic than other bigs and being skilled for a big man.

Ayton's defense has looked good against more traditional bigs. But, when he faces movement, he gets lost.

Nonetheless, I agree with everything else. One area that I would add, though, is post-ups are already getting more efficient, but because of how they impact the passing game. Once a big gets a switch that he can punish in the post, anywhere from 3-5 basic avenues for an open three emerge, and creative coaches can install 20ish plays that take advantage of this hole. All that it requires is a big who can read the court and pass the ball. Ayton needs to develop this part of his game.

 

[Nathan S]

I think you need to take into account that the NBA somewhat changed in the off-season (if tis trend continues). The whistles and the freedom of movement has to change some of your projections, no?

If this continues, post up possession will become more efficient. It will be tougher to defend in single coverage (especially against a switch) and this will result in more open 3pt shots. Now, if the refs will continue to call fouls on moving screens, dominant post up players will have a chance top create even more open looks than via screens.

I'm not convinced that Ayton is that strong. So far he hasn't really overpowered players in the post. His mid range is money and he moves well. Not very advanced yet or very dominant in that regard.

You are talking about Ayton being a negative defensive player. And I gotta tell you the truth...I don't see it. He looks like a big positive there so far.

My issue with Ayton if you want to be critical is that he is one of the worst screeners I have seen. Barely makes contract. He compensates by rolling hard to the rim, being more athletic than other bigs and being skilled for a big man.

I'll start this off by saying i'm prepared to eat crow on Ayton...he looked a lot better than I expected in some ways (6 assists was more than his college career high!) and his weaknesses weren't as pronounced as I expected.

That said, there was a huge difference in how he looked defensively against Jordan vs when the Mavs went small with Powell at center. Powell ate him alive, and I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of small ball centers run him ragged this year. He's not naturally quick, and he doesn't have the motor/attitude to chase around smaller guys most of the time.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

I'll start this off by saying i'm prepared to eat crow on Ayton...he looked a lot better than I expected in some ways (6 assists was more than his college career high!) and his weaknesses weren't as pronounced as I expected.

That said, there was a huge difference in how he looked defensively against Jordan vs when the Mavs went small with Powell at center. Powell ate him alive, and I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of small ball centers run him ragged this year. He's not naturally quick, and he doesn't have the motor/attitude to chase around smaller guys most of the time.

Ayton's defense has looked good against more traditional bigs. But, when he faces movement, he gets lost.

Nonetheless, I agree with everything else. One area that I would add, though, is post-ups are already getting more efficient, but because of how they impact the passing game. Once a big gets a switch that he can punish in the post, anywhere from 3-5 basic avenues for an open three emerge, and creative coaches can install 20ish plays that take advantage of this hole. All that it requires is a big who can read the court and pass the ball. Ayton needs to develop this part of his game.

No you're right that is definitely a shift that is worth considerating, but like you said yourself, Ayton is weirdly averse to going for contact, he generally plays a lot more timid than you'd expect from someone with that kind of physique. I also just have a hard time putting that much faith in the refs on a fundamental level.

Defensively I guess we're just gonna have agree to disagree so far. I don't think you can trust Ayton to be a defensive positive going up against elite offenses. He's not Marvin Bagley, but he's still not what I'd want a number one pick to be.

To make it a bit more clear: What I meant is that he will be a positive defender in terms of overall defensive impact. I'm not necessarily saying that he won't struggle against great 3pt shooting teams and bigs that are very mobile and spend a lot of time behind the 3pt line. Basically he will have positive OBPM, DBPM and even DRPM. I'm not even getting into his efficiency as a defender as far as defending certain play types like spot-ups, pick and pop, etc...

 

[Jake]

For me the team I can't stand the most is the celtics. I wish them nothing but the worst.

 

[Randolphkeys]

I turned on the Bulls - Sixers game on a whim. It's been fun so far, absolutely no defense whatsoever. Fultz first overall is still looking lolz.

 

[Jake]

I turned on the Bulls - Sixers game on a whim. It's been fun so far, absolutely no defense whatsoever. Fultz first overall is still looking lolz.

Likewise, I'm watching it too. Lot of action, pretty good game so far. Can we get some guys to drain shots like that?