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2018 NBA Draft - June 21

Discussion in 'Trades, Free Agency, & the Draft' started by The Process God, Aug 22, 2017.

  1. Randolphkeys

    Randolphkeys Admittedly Pompous Staff Member Administrator

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    I had front row seats in the Bay Area to watching Harrison Barnes become a starting level forward. When he got to Golden State, he went through the motions with a grin on his face on defense. His offensive game would get some numbers in scoring and rebounding, but it seemed like he was out for his own numbers. Draymond proved right away he was just a better player because he had a better approach and better motor. Mark Jackson coached a little fire into Barnes, especially on defense. Knox would be the same type of project and I bet it would take a few years for him to make the jump.
     
  2. Sir'Dom Pointer

    Sir'Dom Pointer Hall-of-Famer

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    I agree...

    But did Barnes really make the jump? He is putting up numbers, but the impact isn't there.

    Knox to me is going to be better in transition, he has and will have a good floater, and if he gets stronger and more aggressive he might be able to take advantage of players in the post.

    What's going for him is that he does move quite a lot off the ball for a guy is size, he has an OK jumper with good form and range, and he has a the tools to work with as far as frame, length, etc.

    But we see it too often that the mental part of the game is just as important...and when you look t him he just isn't that skilled or toolsy in game. He is a guy that transitioned to basketball after playing football for the majority of his life...so it still doesn't come quite natural for him on both ends of the floor.

    Where do you have him?
     
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  3. Randolphkeys

    Randolphkeys Admittedly Pompous Staff Member Administrator

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    I have Knox at #10 overall, in other words if the Cavs draft him part of me will be sweating bullets but I won't trash my living room. Among wings outside of Porter, I have Mikal Bridges first, Knox second, and Miles Bridges third. It wouldn't shock me if three years from now Knox is the best wing out of the three, but those three years of learning will feel pretty long if he isn't aggressive defensively. Can't call Mikal Bridges "soft" then go and compliment Knox heavily. Mikal plays like Thor compared to Knox. How many times were the Cavs burned by drafting on potential that never materialized? I can only support "ridiculous upside" so much after the past two decades of drafts.
     
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  4. Sir'Dom Pointer

    Sir'Dom Pointer Hall-of-Famer

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    Oh, This is not me complimenting him. I'm just pointing out that he has some things going for him. The reason I was being hard on Mikal is because he is projected to be where we are supposed to pick and most people know what he is good at, but ignore the other things...and well he is 22.

    I'm not going to rave about Mikal at this point. We all know what he is good at.

    Knox is a can turn out to be tweener, but the worst kind. The one that isn't good enough to play the 3 because he lacks ball handling and a first step and too weak passive(defending the post, rebounding, switching) to play the 4.

    Gotta tread carefully.
     
  5. Adam

    Adam Reading and reacting

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    https://youtu.be/F98nT4QyIsQ

    Can't embed on my phone. (Can anyone?) This is Bagley s kings workout. Shows how smooth he is. I can see them getting hyped on his upside. I think he's top 4 no doubt
     
  6. Sir'Dom Pointer

    Sir'Dom Pointer Hall-of-Famer

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    Bagley has the highest floor in the draft imo.
     
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  7. Randolphkeys

    Randolphkeys Admittedly Pompous Staff Member Administrator

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    Here you go:



    Only two right handed finishes, both looked uncomfortable. The dribbling with both hands was impressive. Hes going way before the Cavs pick, just needs to tighten up a few things defensively, get stronger, and work on finishing with his right.
     
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  8. 3 Ball...GOT IT

    3 Ball...GOT IT #CediSZN

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    His floor is a big who can't shoot & has no defensive position. That's borderline unplayable in today's NBA.
     
  9. Adam

    Adam Reading and reacting

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    Depends if you are looking at raw stats or impact. He would be my favourite to average 16 and 12 right out the gate. He's be a great tank commander
     
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  10. Randolphkeys

    Randolphkeys Admittedly Pompous Staff Member Administrator

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    Welcome to the NBA draft in the 21st century. You aren't drafting for what the prospect will be next year, you draft a teenager hoping he has the growth mindset to shore up his weaknesses down the line. The Greek Freak went 15th overall in a bad draft class. Steph Curry went 9th overall after Johnny Flynn. The draft is a long-term investment, not a quick fix.

    Bagley has the potential to defend multiple positions with his athleticism. Let's see if he figures it all out.
     
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  11. 3 Ball...GOT IT

    3 Ball...GOT IT #CediSZN

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    No clue what this has to do with where his floor is.
     
  12. Sir'Dom Pointer

    Sir'Dom Pointer Hall-of-Famer

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    You are focusing on the wrong things.

    His floor is a ridiculously good PnR Roll Man with the ability to punish any switch and small 4's, especially in a spaced floor With his unblockable hook and ridiculous second jump he should be able to feast against switched and smaller guys. He will rebound his misses a ton in the NBA.

    He will get points in bunches in the RS, and in the playoffs with the heavy switching scheme he will prove to be very valuable in time...

    As far as his defense, he might prove to even be a good switch defender which is very valuable. He hasn't showed me much in this regard in College, but it's almost due to bad fundamentals and the zone that they played. He barely had to guard 1 on 1 in space. He has the physical tools to be a decent switch defender in the NBA and this is where the NBA is going no? Whether he becomes one is a different story.

    I believe in his jump shot. I think he is going to be at the very least respectable in time.

    He might not be as strong as Julius Randle is right now(although he looked plenty strong in college to me) and doesn't have the perfect upper body frame(got strong lower body though), but a more athletic Julius Randle with better range is a pretty good floor no?

    Lack of right hand can be a problem, but the elevation on his jump hooks can make it much less of an issue.

    Every one of those fuckers in the top 10 got some holes in their game, but the dude has super translatable skills.
     
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  13. 3 Ball...GOT IT

    3 Ball...GOT IT #CediSZN

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    His weaknesses are his weaknesses. And floor = unable to improve his weaknesses, and the questionable areas don't turn out well.

    His jumper & defense are nowhere near certainties. If they end up on the lower end of possible outcomes, you have a big who cannot shoot or defend any one position. That's just what his floor is. There's certainly worse floors out there when you consider those parts of his offensive game, and there are guys who are much more likely to end up at their floor that Bagley too... but I just don't come close on him having the best floor in the draft.

    Counting stats out of bigs aren't even valued anymore like they have been in the past. Just ask Thomas Robinson lol.

    I still think Bagley's a very good prospect. It just sounds like I have a lower confidence in him improving his weaknesses than you probably do. The jump shot I think he'll improve, but even best case scenario I don't think he'll ever be more than roughly a 35% guy on all wide open spot ups.

    The switching is where I have very little confidence in him becoming great. Maybe average, but not great. I've been trying to think of a big man who has poor length that is a good switch defender. Can anyone think of one?

    He has 0 room for error because he has no length to recover from behind, and his technique (though has the feet to improve) is just so far off right now to me that the end result of actually being a switchable player seems pretty unlikely for me.

    Again, I think he's a solid prospect. Just don't agree that his floor is the best
     
  14. Sir'Dom Pointer

    Sir'Dom Pointer Hall-of-Famer

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    I don't always look at weaknesses separately. For certain I look at players whether they are positive impact players on offense or defense.

    His skill set right now immediately translates to offensive success...whether he improves his weaknesses or not.

    Comparing Bagley to Thomas Robinson who was a 2 PPG scorer as a freshman is disingenuous...no matter how similar you think they are as players.

    Players improve their weaknesses nowadays, and fast. Heck, even players in their 30s improve their 3pt shot nowadays. And just for reference, Bagley was a 40% 3pt shooter from NBA range. Yes, on low volume, but still. He is not a lost cause.

    He doesn;t have to be a great switch defender. His rebounding will keep him a positive on the defensive end. Love is a worse defender than him and he even played the 5 this year.

    John Collins from Atlanta is a poor man's Bagley and was a big positive in his rookie season. Had a very positive DBPM despite playing on a tanking team and not being known at all for his defense at Wake Forest. He also has a 8'10 standing reach.

    think you are nitpicking him a bit too much.
     
  15. Randolphkeys

    Randolphkeys Admittedly Pompous Staff Member Administrator

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    You realize he has an 8'9 standing reach, right? I saw that RealGM had a typo where they listed his standing reach at 6'9, which means his arms weren't as long as his head and neck, LOL. For comparison, Draymond has a 8'10 standing reach. It's solid for a forward, probably not what you want at center.

    Look, you can form and preconceptions you want about any prospect. In some ways I think it's great you and SirDom found each other. Let's just be accurate here.
     
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