So Long Jordan Clarkson ( aka Chucky McJumperson)

[Cavatt]

What's so cool is I've seen all sorts of posts here about one or the other of our acquisitions being the best of the bunch. And that's been said about all four of them.

I personally love the Nance pickup the most. Him being both a local kid, as well as a Cavs' "legacy", means that he'll likely be here his entire career. Pay him fairly, and he won't chase last dollar to go elsewhere. He'll always hustle, be a vocal guy on defense, and be a complete class act.

But really, it's a four-bagger -- Altman hit a grand slam with this deal.

The only guy I haven't been blown away by is Hill because I am familiar with what he can do. This info that says Nance and Clarkson are better defensively than anyone thought, I totally believe. They have looked amazing defensively .

Nance seems like a game changer especially against the warriors .

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Nance seems like a game changer especially against the warriors .

It's not only his play as an individual, but how vocal he is out there defensively. That helps everyone else play much better team defense.

He's obviously a great young player with a great pedigree, but I can't help but think that having played four years of college ball really helps. Young guys who do that learn how to be leaders because they become the veteran leaders of their college team. The one and done guys may be the most talented, but they don't learn leadership, and how the real point is to make the whole better than the sum of its parts. Delly did the same thing -- he was the leader of his team as St. Mary's, and he took on that same role here even when he was one of the most junior guys.

 

[Cavatt]

It's not only his play as an individual, but how vocal he is out there defensively. That helps everyone else play much better team defense.

He's obviously a great young player with a great pedigree, but I can't help but think that having played four years of college ball really helps. Young guys who do that learn how to be leaders because they become the veteran leaders of their college team. The one and done guys may be the most talented, but they don't learn leadership, and how the real point is to make the whole better than the sum of its parts. Delly did the same thing -- he was the leader of his team as St. Mary's, and he took on that same role here even when he was one of the most junior guys.

Cedi is still younger than Nance, but the same rationale applies all these guys have been developed more than your average one and done. There are always some older college players that hit, and they almost always slip.

My mind always goes back to Courtney Lee for the magic.

Obviously you take best talent available with the nets pick, but I like the idea of drafting older headier rookies for a team that's contending.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

https://youtu.be/F6LobuaKa_0?t=325

Clarkson talks about his biggest challenge right now and he says:"the new sets and the stuff defensively, the principles are different than the stuff they were running in LA so those are two biggest things".

Prepare to see how the defense trending down again now that they are more familiar with our defensive system

Real talk, what's the reason to sticking with this sort of defensive scheme despite every proof of it not succeeding? Don't find the reason to be this stubborn with it other than Longa inability to teach any other sort of defense.

Are we the only team in the league that uses this kind of defense?

Other than that, you have Nance talking about the difference in practice as a Cavalier compared to the Lakers.

https://youtu.be/F6LobuaKa_0?t=1142

Seems major... and that's the despite the uptick in volume and intensity in the last week or so.

 

[shoes22]

https://youtu.be/F6LobuaKa_0?t=325

Clarkson talks about his biggest challenge right now and he says:"the new sets and the stuff defensively, the principles are different than the stuff they were running in LA so those are two biggest things".

Prepare to see how the defense trending down again now that they are more familiar with our defensive system

Real talk, what's the reason to sticking with this sort of defensive scheme despite every proof of it not succeeding? Don't find the reason to be this stubborn with it other than Longa inability to teach any other sort of defense.

Are we the only team in the league that uses this kind of defense?

Other than that, you have Nance talking about the difference in practice as a Cavalier compared to the Lakers.

https://youtu.be/F6LobuaKa_0?t=1142

Seems major... and that's the despite the uptick in volume and intensity in the last week or so.

Yeah I’m not going to lie, this concerns me deeply. Lue better not fuck this up.

It would be a supreme tragedy if the only reason the Cavs looked good defensively the last two games is because they didn’t know the defense they were “supposed” to play.

 

[blommen]

Yeah I’m not going to lie, this concerns me deeply. Lue better not fuck this up.

It would be a supreme tragedy if the only reason the Cavs looked good defensively the last two games is because they didn’t know the defense they were “supposed” to play.

I mean, the reason we've looked good defensively the last two games could just as easily be attributed to the fact that we were playing two teams that aren't very good offensively, as it could be attributed to our defensive schemes, imo.

I've been wary of buying too much into our defensive resurgence this early for that very reason, There is still enough "outside noise" surrounding our performances that I think it's hard to tell just how improved we really are. I will say that the energy, activity, athleticism and generally uplifted spirits will most assuredly help us out in general, but so far it's hard to tell just how much we are talking about.

 

[TitleTown]

Yeah I’m not going to lie, this concerns me deeply. Lue better not fuck this up.

It would be a supreme tragedy if the only reason the Cavs looked good defensively the last two games is because they didn’t know the defense they were “supposed” to play.

As long as LBJ is willing to keep yelling out coverages and coaching on the court, they will learn it eventually.

The problem wasn't the scheme as much as it was a complete lack of buy in.

I'm not worried as long as LBJ is bought in.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

I don't know... sure, our defensive scheme relies heavily on Lebron rotating properly because we are almost always playing 4 against 5 on defense because we hedge aggressively almost every PnR, so we need guys to rotate properly, and when they don't we give wide open shots or easy shots at the rim.

But I always felt like we do things that are not necessary. I don't think Love needs to hedge every PnR, I don't think we need to switch so much either... so, we put our players at a disadvantageous positions for no good reason other to make this particular defensive scheme work.

Other than the defensive principles that seemed like a complete new thing to JC, Nance's comments about the practice really stuck out to me. I mean, he was really shocked about it. Both Nance and JC looked like two of our most energetic, athletic players on the court since they joined and I wonder if a big reason for for it is that they practiced live before coming here... It would suck if they suddenly started looking a bit more lethargic like the rest of our team.

Wish I wouldn't focus on those sort of things and just focus on the team and have complete trust in our system and coach, but it's just there and every new player/outgoing player has mentioned it so far. So at times i'm asking myself if the Cavs are indeed playing close to their ceiling as a team which sucks tbh.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

I mean, the reason we've looked good defensively the last two games could just as easily be attributed to the fact that we were playing two teams that aren't very good offensively, as it could be attributed to our defensive schemes, imo.

I've been wary of buying too much into our defensive resurgence this early for that very reason, There is still enough "outside noise" surrounding our performances that I think it's hard to tell just how improved we really are. I will say that the energy, activity, athleticism and generally uplifted spirits will most assuredly help us out in general, but so far it's hard to tell just how much we are talking about.

OKC has been pretty damn good offensively for a while now(They did score 148 on us right?), their defense has slipped though. I agree about the Celtics, but don't forget they scored at will against us the last time we met.

Besides, I feel like our defense was shit against every team in the league regardless of their offensive talent...those 2 games were completely different than everything we have seen so far. We covered the PnR beautifully, we didn't allow easy shots at the rim or give much shots at the rim at all... we didn't switch unless it was necessary and we didn't hedge on PnRs. We just didn't allow undeserving offensive players good looks unless they earned it, and it was damn fun to watch pretty good defense.

 

[blommen]

OKC has been pretty damn good offensively for a while now(They did score 148 on us right?), their defense has slipped though. I agree about the Celtics, but don't forget they scored at will against us the last time we met.

Besides, I feel like our defense was shit against every team in the league regardless of their offensive talent...those 2 games were completely different than everything we have seen so far. We covered the PnR beautifully, we didn't allow easy shots at the rim or gives much shots at the rim at all... we didn't switch unless it was necessary and we didn't hedge on PnRs. We just didn't give undeserving offensive players good looks unless they earned it, and it was damn fun to watch pretty good defense.

I don't disagree with any of this, outside of the fact that it was Westbrooks first game back after an injury and they are more of a middling offensive team to me, with the talent/ability to go ham sandwhich against teams if they hit their stride (Golden State, Cavs, etc.)

I'm not disagreeing that we looked better our first two games with the new crew, but I do wonder how much of it was an effect of our defensive schemes and how much was an effect of us simply getting players that weren't actively trying to set the team on fire every time they had to navigate a pick n roll.

 

[cavsfever]

Not that great lol. We outperformed our win expectancy with that pick especially because a late first rounders timeline doesn't match that of a 25 year olds. They'll be exiting their primes right as LeBron hangs it up tbh. So that's perfect. Young veterans should rightly be coveted by win now FO's and we fuckin got em. Suck it Lakers.

Young veterans 21-23 years old and still on their rookie contract are exactly what we should be targeting. Over in the Nets pick thread I've been saying we should be looking for good players like that to trade the pick for (Myles Turner was the example I used). Not only does it fit Lebron's timeline perfectly, but it is much lower risk than a lottery pick.

 

[arglebargle]

Young veterans 21-23 years old and still on their rookie contract are exactly what we should be targeting. Over in the Nets pick thread I've been saying we should be looking for good players like that to trade the pick for (Myles Turner was the example I used). Not only does it fit Lebron's timeline perfectly, but it is much lower risk than a lottery pick.

So, we're aiming to hit a single or double rather than a grand slam?

 

[cavsfever]

So, we're aiming to hit a single or double rather than a grand slam?

Someone like Turner would be at least a double for us. He fits our needs better than all but probably two or three players in this draft. Turner was the 11 pick in the 2015 draft but now looks like the third best player in that draft.

What you give up when you get a "young vet" instead of a draft pick is the fantasy that your new draft pick is going to be some kind of caped superhero superstar. The draft lends itself to fantasizing. With a "young vet" type you know what you're getting, but you can make sure that what you're getting is actually good.

Of course there aren't that many players like that who are really good, fit our needs, and might be available for trade. I've been using Turner as an all-purpose example but hard to think of many more.

 

[Stark]

Yeah I’m not going to lie, this concerns me deeply. Lue better not fuck this up.

It would be a supreme tragedy if the only reason the Cavs looked good defensively the last two games is because they didn’t know the defense they were “supposed” to play.

This would be an immediately firable offense in my opinion.

"Your system is so fucking garbage, that these guys with zero practice time played way better on defense and with more heart than they did when you started getting your grimy Ty Lue hands on them."

 

[NorthCoastBias]

Oh, cool, another thread that devolves into shitting on Ty Lue.