LeBron James

[czvo]

Rose - yes
Durant - maybe
Curry - Naw... LeBron was not the regular season MVP either of those years.

I don't disagree on Curry, necessarily. But people 30 years are going to feel the need to explain that second mvp in light of what happened in the finals.

 

[czvo]

Warriors only won because Kyrie broke his knee.

I think you missed my point.

 

[JMoneyYourHoney]

I don't disagree on Curry, necessarily. But people 30 years are going to feel the need to explain that second mvp in light of what happened in the finals.

I asked this in other thread, but:

Bigger dominance of a regular season MVP by a Finals MVP: Olajuwon vs. Robinson or LeBron vs. Curry?

 

[ACisKING]

Just read this. The difference in rankings between all four stats (the latter two of which are not advanced stats) really demonstrates how little we know about quantifying NBA defense.

Also, this has been written numerous times (and @David. has made this critique of defensive metrics), but Kawhi's defensive metrics are low this season for two reasons. First, Danny Green and Dedmon are succeeding unusually well at their positions, thus the seeable impact of Leonard's defense is slightly lessened. Second, teams are putting Kawhi's man in the corner and not involving him in the offense. This is not well reflected by DRPM whatsoever.

Point being, if these rankings don't view Kawhi as a good defender, they really shouldn't be trusted. Kawhi is the best perimeter defender in the NBA right now, and the best I've seen in years. LeBron is the best team defender I've ever seen.

I totally agree with everything you said. I've also read about the whole Kawhi in the corner thing too and how that isn't captured. When the defensive metrics don't capture what Kawhi is doing night in and night on defense, then there is something wrong with the metrics themselves. Players are legitimately afraid to dribble around him.

That being said, the article does at least show that even a half-effort LeBron is still making an impact on team defense.

 

[Jordan]

I totally agree with everything you said. I've also read about the whole Kawhi in the corner thing too and how that isn't captured. When the defensive metrics don't capture what Kawhi is doing night in and night on defense, then there is something wrong with the metrics themselves. Players are legitimately afraid to dribble around him.

That being said, the article does at least show that even a half-effort LeBron is still making an impact on team defense.

Agreed. I guess my point is that, at the SF position, Kawhi should be first, LBJ second, and Roberson third. Any other order simply does not make sense to me.

But your point about the article rating LBJ highly is fair. It really is amazing how good of a player he is even when he isn't playing with 100% effort.

 

[KI4MVP]

I think you missed my point.

No, I was disagreeing with it, D'Antoni's system isn't a playoff system. The game slows down, teams get out of rhythm. Adapting parts of it isn't the same thing as the shoot in 7 seconds system D'Antoni runs. It inflates regular season numbers, which may for the 3rd time give the MVP to a guy who isn't the best player in the league, on a system that won't win in the playoffs.

 

[czvo]

No, I was disagreeing with it, D'Antoni's system isn't a playoff system. The game slows down, teams get out of rhythm. Adapting parts of it isn't the same thing as the shoot in 7 seconds system D'Antoni runs. It inflates regular season numbers, which may for the 3rd time give the MVP to a guy who isn't the best player in the league, on a system that won't win in the playoffs.

Sorry, but we're just going to have to disagree. A team failing to win isn't an indictment of a system. Especially when it comes to the playoffs. It almost comes down to talent and shot-making. Besides, just about every team, including the Cavs, have taken the basic tenants of D'Antoni's offense. High PnR, expert roller, surrounded by shooters, preferring a three point shot. To sit there and say his system doesn't work because he's never won a title, when so many teams do essentially the same thing, seems a little disingenuous. Which is why I come back to players and shot making.

By the way, you may believe the Cavs would have won with Kyrie, but that doesn't make it true. Same argument could be made last year re: Bogut and/or Draymond's suspension.

 

[Real Deal]

I can tell LeBron is getting highly annoyed.

 

[ACisKING]

Agreed. I guess my point is that, at the SF position, Kawhi should be first, LBJ second, and Roberson third. Any other order simply does not make sense to me.

But your point about the article rating LBJ highly is fair. It really is amazing how good of a player he is even when he isn't playing with 100% effort.

I don't know if I'd put LeBron at 2 this regular season. Every time I watch Philly (more often than is normal since my brother is a die hard fan) I can't get over how good Covington is on defense. He's like a hound. James Johnson in Miami is also an amazing defender especially on the ball.

 

[Jordan]

I don't know if I'd put LeBron at 2 this regular season. Every time I watch Philly (more often than is normal since my brother is a die hard fan) I can't get over how good Covington is on defense. He's like a hound. James Johnson in Miami is also an amazing defender especially on the ball.

Definitely a point on James Johnson. He is lock-down. I'll need to watch more Philly. I'll take your word on it, though. Still, LBJ is damn good.

 

[RedBlackAttack]

I almost never post in this thread because LBJ already gets so much attention (and rightfully so) and it also gets to a point where ... I mean, what else can you say about this guy?

But, I wanted to note that in listening to the latest Road Trippin' podcast that he was on, I was so impressed with his attitude, honesty and just how down-to-earth he seemed.

LeBron still has moments where he draws unnecessary attention (in my eyes), but they are fewer and further between and he just seems way more relate-able than he used to be, if that makes any sense. Saying he has matured from the days of "Check My $tats" and wearing Yankees caps to Indians playoff games is to understate it.

It is really easy to like LeBron James right now and it hasn't always been that way. Not that I ever blamed him, mind you. Give me all that money, power and attention when I was a teenager and I would have been a WAY bigger asshole, I'm sure.

But, 32-year-old LeBron seems like a cool customer on and off the floor.

 

[cavsfever]

Sorry, but we're just going to have to disagree. A team failing to win isn't an indictment of a system. Especially when it comes to the playoffs. It almost comes down to talent and shot-making. Besides, just about every team, including the Cavs, have taken the basic tenants of D'Antoni's offense. High PnR, expert roller, surrounded by shooters, preferring a three point shot. To sit there and say his system doesn't work because he's never won a title, when so many teams do essentially the same thing, seems a little disingenuous. Which is why I come back to players and shot making.

I don't think anyone is saying D'Antoni's offensive system wasn't ground breaking and brilliant, just that it tends to inflate regular season stats and is vulnerable to disruption in the playoffs. D'Antoni himself has never put together a team anywhere as good defensively as the Warriors either.

By the way, you may believe the Cavs would have won with Kyrie, but that doesn't make it true. Same argument could be made last year re: Bogut and/or Draymond's suspension.

I don't know what got into you since you're normally a great poster, but this is a horrible take. Losing your second and third best player totally on a team with no bench is NOT THE SAME and BEARS NO COMPARISON to having Draymond Green get a richly deserved one game suspension for constantly kicking people in the balls and having the 8th man go out on the deepest team in the league. A team of Lebron, TT, Mozgov, Delly, JR Smith, Shumpert, and that's it took the Warriors to six games. Add Kyrie and Kevin to that team? If our full team was healthy in 2015 we would be working on a threepeat right now no question.

Cavs fans need to keep this truth alive and pass it down, because no one else will. It should never be questioned on a Cavs board.

 

[cavsfever]

I don't know if I'd put LeBron at 2 this regular season. Every time I watch Philly (more often than is normal since my brother is a die hard fan) I can't get over how good Covington is on defense. He's like a hound. James Johnson in Miami is also an amazing defender especially on the ball.

I really thought we should pursue a trade for Covington in the off season, I really loved his 3 and D potential and his size and figured he might still be undervalued. Even did a thread on the trade forum.

 

[Ohio]

 

[Ohio]

-30

No, you read that right.