Discussion in 'Trades, Free Agency, & the Draft' started by Walter White, Oct 27, 2016.
Did anyone else see the Shump for Brandon Knight rumor?
Yea, I saw that too.. I say no thanks, personally. While it fills one hole, it creates another. If we trade Shump, IMHO, it's gotta be for someone that plays 2-4 or 1-3; i.e., a wing, preferably a plus-defending and/or ball-handling wing. Looking at Rudy Gay... he doesn't fill those roles perfectly, but, he gives us what I think we're missing in a potential (inevitable) GSW (or even Spurs/Clippers) matchup.
I'd have to imagine the Kings are going to get better offers for Gay than Shump, even if the latter continues to perform at this level, though. Is there anything the Cavs have to sweeten that offer to the point where it ends up being a deal on-level with what teams like OKC, LAC, BOS, NOP, MIN etc. may offer?
I agree, I don't think Shump alone gets it done; this is one of the reasons I had hoped we would have retained Delly as an additional trade piece.
I mean, even if we clean out our assets, I'm not sure that deal gets done. Is Shump/2020 First Round Pick/Osman/McRae really a better package than a one-for-one Kanter, LaVine, Evans, etc. swap? Or a deal involving a guy like Jae Crowder and other assets? Or one where LAC gambles everything on winning this season? I just don't think so.
Having a guy like Delly to dangle would've made this significantly easier, I agree.
Lol.. nope! Definitely not...
But let's consider the following:
1) I don't think that LaVine would get moved for Gay; I could be wrong, but, LaVine is showing promise and is cheap/young/somewhat talented/highly athletic.
2) A (Tyreke) Evans/Gay trade is essentially a salary dump for both teams. Gay is leaving SacTown, so he'll definitely get traded, but why for Evans? They could just get Evans in free agency next year if they have any hope of retaining him (same goes for the Pelicans and Rudy Gay).
3) Kanter makes sense for the Kings assuming they're either (1) giving up on Cousins, (2) giving up on small ball, (3) just hoping to flip gay for assets. I think this is a very likely trade and much better than anything we could offer.
But do you trade Jae Crowder for Rudy Gay if you're Boston? Does that really make you better?
From a trade standpoint, yes surely Crowder has immensely more value than Shump; but what is Boston's motivation here, particularly with the contract situation?
See, if I'm Boston, I'm thinking Gay might make us better offensively (maybe), but defensively, you'd rather have Crowder. Financially, the production you're getting from Gay might be higher but is it worth taking on $20M in salary as opposed to Crowder who is locked up for years for less than the future MLE?
I'm not sure Boston, even with all the smoke, is so interested in trading Crowder for a guy like Rudy Gay.. but again, I could be wrong (I personally wouldn't do this trade though).
That's interesting... Who do they move for Gay? I suppose any package they put together might be better than Shump+nonsense though.
Yep, it's really the only reason I was so pissed we let him walk.
The reason I brought up LaVine is that reports out of Minny are saying Thibs is going to trade one of his young core for an established vet. I assumed that it wouldn't be Dunn, Wiggins, Dieng, or KAT, so that's where I got LaVine. I agree, though, LaVine is going to be a damn good player one day.
It depends how much NOP management likes Gentry. Gentry and Evans have a lot of dislike for one another, from what I've read. The latter is a terrible fit for the former's offense, and Evans's defensive abilities aren't used in New Orleans's unique scheme. I actually would bet quite a bit of money on NOP trying to trade Evans by the trade deadline.
Agreed... I read something awhile ago about it and threw it up. Out of all the ones that I suggested, though, this one was probably the least likely and dumbest.
I'd imagine some combination of a guy like Wesley Johnson and a bunch of picks. I think Gay would be an outstanding fit in their starting five. I have to imagine something like this is on the table, but who knows, I may be wrong here.
Yep, I remember that report.. But, I mean... would you trade Zach LaVine for Rudy Gay if you were the Wolves?
Oh I agree, Evans is a goner for sure... My only point is that what's in it for the Kings? Evans is walking to the highest bidder in the summer (see his snapchat) and likely wants to play on an established team at this point in his career. That almost assuredly won't be the Kings unless they overpay in free agency.
Stranger things have happened though man..
I would actually love it if the Clippers did that; Rudy Gay is a guy that could really help them (and to beat Golden State ).
Probably not... That's a fair point. It depends how much Thibs thinks Gay could help them achieve and if he believes there is a chance they can retain him this summer. Frankly, I think Thibs is crazy to trade one of his young core for a vet, because pretty much all of those guys (minus Dieng - who won't be traded because of his new contract - and Dunn) have top-25 NBA player potential. LaVine's offensive prowess is eerily similar to last era's athletic two-guards that could score in every way imaginable, Wiggins has looked better to me this season and finally is developing as an offensive player, and KAT is, well, KAT. Hence why I would not rule something like that out.
Ahh I misunderstood your post. I do agree, this one depends on how the Kings do, they've looked better recently, and not because of Rudy Gay. Put simply, Gay does not play within that team's structure whatsoever. I actually think Tyreke is a better fit, too. Evans is great at using his length on defense to bother the ball handler (hence why I think the Cavs need to strongly consider trading for him) and, while a limited offensive player, is only ball dominant when he is asked to be. This seems like a better fit for Sacramento than New Orleans, mainly because of Boogie... If the Kings trade Boogie, though, than this trade makes zero sense for SAC.
May I direct you to the Pau Gasol trade to LA...
FWIW, Tyreke Evans was another guy on my list of Cavs potential pickups... I mean, Cleveland Clinic is right down the street.. But seriously, I think he'd be a great fit here coming off the bench and in certain small ball lineups.
Yeah, at first I wasn't crazy about him due to injuries and his ability to dribble the air out of a ball, but I've become friendly with a few people in Pelicans media and they've showed me some cool stuff. Last year, Tyreke was asked to be ball dominant and an ISO scorer, slowing down the offense. The year before, though, he was just a part of the offense and consequently much less problematic. I've always been really impressed with his defense so I'd be down.
I think, for whatever reason, he has less value around the league than Rudy Gay, and may be someone acquirable via Shumpert and other assets if the Cavs so choose.
Here's the problem for me: Everything I wanted Shumpert to do over the offseason has pretty much happened. Has he become an asset off the bench for 20-25 minutes off the bench? Absolutely. Is the defense better when he is on the court? Unquestionable. Has he stopped taking Larry Hughes bad shots? Pretty much, at least he cut back and his shooting efficiency is very good for a backup wing. Is he healthy? Relatively, he is still Iman Shumpert. I can accept a few days off here or there.
He just isn't a backup point guard. That's okay, because after watching him play the point in New York, I never expected him to fill that role here.
Get a veteran backup point guard on the cheap and retain Shump, and I'll be fine with it.
There will be injury concerns until he proves he can stay healthy, but if he keeps playing like this (obviously he won't keep shooting 45% from deep, but if he can shoot it 35%+), you keep Shump, no questions asked.
No. that sounds like one of those terrible fake trade rumors someone on twitter makes.
No questions asked? I wouldn't go that far.
The better he plays, for a longer period of time, the higher his trade value.
It's still too early. If he stays healthy and plays well until the deadline, I trust Griff to make the right call. From what I can tell, he's not someone who is going to gamble our future based on the "hope" that Shumpert's injury history changes. But, if he keeps Shump, I'm cool with that too.