Breaking Bad Season 5

Damage said:

Not liking something because everyone else likes it is one thing (that's annoying) - not liking the bandwagon, front-running fans who jump on & buy Heisenberg t-shirts, make candy meth, drink Schraderbrew, buy oxygen masks, et al is another animal. Perhaps I need to watch it again, and I will. But when you couple the fandom with an illogical, hole-riddled conclusion made me dislike the finale.

The show, as a whole, was incredible. And I thoroughly enjoyed it. The ending, to me, was the antithesis of what made the show so great.

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Yes, I will say one more thing about it. It isn't even about bandwagoning or being hipster or any of that talk. I'm gonna like what I like regardless, because I am me. But just on a bigger scale, what annoys me is when people just like stuff in general because it is popular and they want to do everything the crowd does. Those people are fake. If you like something because you actually like it, whether it is mainstream or not, that is cool. Just be yourself is what I am saying. And that is all I will say about that.

Now, about the finale. What specifics did you not like about the finale? The main thing that threw me for a loop is when they started playing up beat music at the end. I get it was probably to lighten would could have been a very dark and depressing finale, but I kind of wanted that. That is where it was heading since the beginning. Maybe that is where we agree? Or do you mean something completely different?

Rich said:

I don't like debating artistic quality very much. I find it one of the most pointless endeavors a person can take on. You have a better chance at convincing a person that their religious beliefs are fanciful or that their political beliefs are illogical than you do at convincing someone that their artistic tastes are, well, tasteless. Not to mention, debating the first two are, in the greater scheme of things, more important. That's why I normally steer clear of writing long winded essays about this movie or that show on why it is awesome or why it sucked. Generally, I'll just say it and move on.

So, with that in mind, I won't go into a great discussion on whether or not this series deserves all of the praise it gets. Instead, I'll just say this: it kept me entertained, Walter White is one of my three favorite characters in television drama history, and it has been one of my two or three favorite shows on television over the last 6 years. It had its moments that made me scratch my head (the magnet scheme....I mean, c'mon), but it's television. If you want total realism, you probably shouldn't be watching television in the first place. I'll miss this show.

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Fair enough. I don't mind objectivity. If you want to pick it apart, go ahead man. Or at least say the flaws you saw, because you might not want to pick it apart if you still liked the show :chuckles: And everybody has their personal preferences, but there is a quality to the show that can't be denied no matter who you are. The people that think it sucked because they saw one episode in season 5 don't have a credible opinion, I don't want to hear from them. If someone watched the whole show and has things to point, I can respect that and welcome that.

Walter White said:

Fair enough. I don't mind objectivity. If you want to pick it apart, go ahead man. Or at least say the flaws you saw, because you might not want to pick it apart if you still liked the show :chuckles: And everybody has their personal preferences, but there is a quality to the show that can't be denied no matter who you are. The people that think it sucked because they saw one episode in season 5 don't have a credible opinion, I don't want to hear from them. If someone watched the whole show and has things to point, I can respect that and welcome that.

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My personal opinion is that the finale was far from perfect, and was entirely too neat, but was still a solid and enjoyable ending to a great series. I think it's possible to enjoy an episode of a show but still recognize it as flawed.

I also think this entire season (meaning the last eight episodes) was a little rushed, but I blame AMC for that more than Gilligan and company. They gave him sixteen episodes to wrap it up and he did his best, even if it meant fast-forwarding through a lot of stuff that might have been interesting enough to carry an entire season (or at least an entire story arc).

Jack Brickman said:

My personal opinion is that the finale was far from perfect, and was entirely too neat, but was still a solid and enjoyable ending to a great series. I think it's possible to enjoy an episode of a show but still recognize it as flawed.

I also think this entire season (meaning the last eight episodes) was a little rushed, but I blame AMC for that more than Gilligan and company. They gave him sixteen episodes to wrap it up and he did his best, even if it meant fast-forwarding through a lot of stuff that might have been interesting enough to carry an entire season (or at least an entire story arc).

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I agree it felt slightly rushed.

But it just didnt detract from my enjoyment of this season at all. The final 8 eps were a roller coaster. I will never forget this show or these characters.

Jack Brickman said:

My personal opinion is that the finale was far from perfect, and was entirely too neat, but was still a solid and enjoyable ending to a great series. I think it's possible to enjoy an episode of a show but still recognize it as flawed.

I also think this entire season (meaning the last eight episodes) was a little rushed, but I blame AMC for that more than Gilligan and company. They gave him sixteen episodes to wrap it up and he did his best, even if it meant fast-forwarding through a lot of stuff that might have been interesting enough to carry an entire season (or at least an entire story arc).

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I agree that it wasn't absolutely perfect, because being perfect is impossible. I believe it was perfect from a politically correct standpoint, and for the mass appeal. And I was far from disappointed, I loved the Finale. But personally, I wish it was a bit darker ending. That is just me though. And as far as being rushed, maybe a little but it added to the fast paced craziness that a lot of us loved.

But as far as the last episode being rushed itself, I actually applaud the fact that I didn't feel like it was, even though it could have been expected since everything had to be done in one episode. They spent a suprisingly good amount of time with Walt going to Elliot and Gretchen's (and nice job of making us think they would die), and time with Skylar. I actually had a thought during the episode that I can't believe it didn't feel rushed, and it all happened in good timing I thought.

The only thing was how it skipped him going to his house and getting the M60, but it was sort of in the flash forwards. And it skipped how he found Badger and Pete and some stuff like that. From that, it felt a little rushed, but it wasn't necessary to show that and easily implied. I wish the finale was like two hours and they went into full details, but they accomplished everything that they needed and more.

Honestly, I more expected them to show Walt right away going to the hideout and the whole episode would basically be a fight and blood bath between everyone. And the use of the m60 was refreshing and creative, it wasn't a straight forward him just walking in and blasting the place like a lot of us thought. That whole exchange at the end kept us sort of guessing, even though we all knew how it would basically end. But it did it in a way that we didn't specifically predict or expect. So I applaud them for that at least.

Damn. It's seriously just starting to hit me that I'll never see another new episode of this show ever. Shits depressing man.

I read like six reviews today, and a few posts in this thread, that called the ending "too happy". Wut?

Because he found a way to get his money to his kid, and killed the Nazis? How about the following:

- His family is in shambles and ruined emotionally and socially for life. (Escaping a conviction wasn't fixing Skylars life. It was removing one of many undeserved punishments.

- His brother in law dead, his sister in law grievously widowed.

- His reputation (and his empire) which he finally, admittedly, cared more about than anything, was annihilated. He would forever be known as a ruthless moraless drug pusher and murderer. He may have saved his family and future addicts from the monsters he created and left behind, but that wasn't going to be the story on the 11 o'clock news. It would only be "Heisenberg Finally Dead, Found Muredered Alongside NeoNazi Cohorts"

That's just a few of the many burning piles of rubble he left behind.

You all know that I think Walt deserved punishment. Well he got it as far as I was concerned. It would have been cliche and stupid to have Walt "win". To have him walk away scott free and avoid all punishment would have been awful and undeserved. What ALSO would have been undeserved, at least by BB standards, would be for Walt to go out like he tried to at the end of Granite State... Giving up to the police and "taking his licking like a man". That's equally too tidy.

No, instead, the show is about transformation. Walter White and Heisenberg were polar opposites and now both were dead at the end of last episode. Now Walt truly learned what he had to do. Go out penniless, friendless, family-less, Jesse-less, and it was his job to make the final sacrifices to offer the most modest protection he could offer them before going out.

He didn't solve all of the mountain of problems he himself created for others, but at long last, he realized the sacrifice he was required to make, and he made it.

Walter White said:

I agree that it wasn't absolutely perfect, because being perfect is impossible. I believe it was perfect from a politically correct standpoint, and for the mass appeal. And I was far from disappointed, I loved the Finale. But personally, I wish it was a bit darker ending. That is just me though. And as far as being rushed, maybe a little but it added to the fast paced craziness that a lot of us loved.

But as far as the last episode being rushed itself, I actually applaud the fact that I didn't feel like it was, even though it could have been expected since everything had to be done in one episode. They spent a suprisingly good amount of time with Walt going to Elliot and Gretchen's (and nice job of making us think they would die), and time with Skylar. I actually had a thought during the episode that I can't believe it didn't feel rushed, and it all happened in good timing I thought.

The only thing was how it skipped him going to his house and getting the M60, but it was sort of in the flash forwards. And it skipped how he found Badger and Pete and some stuff like that. From that, it felt a little rushed, but it wasn't necessary to show that and easily implied. I wish the finale was like two hours and they went into full details, but they accomplished everything that they needed and more.

Honestly, I more expected them to show Walt right away going to the hideout and the whole episode would basically be a fight and blood bath between everyone. And the use of the m60 was refreshing and creative, it wasn't a straight forward him just walking in and blasting the place like a lot of us thought. That whole exchange at the end kept us sort of guessing, even though we all knew how it would basically end. But it did it in a way that we didn't specifically predict or expect. So I applaud them for that at least.

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I want to comment on the last point, essentially pointless for me to toot my own horn after the fact because nobody knows if I'm lying or not :chuckles: But just bear with me. All the way back to when we first started to see the ending piece together at the start of this season, I thought there was zero percent chance Walt was going to just go apeshit on people with an M60. It was never in his character. He isn't Rambo. Could he even carry the thing in a firefight? When was Walt ever in a firefight to begin with? Anybody could pull a trigger on a gun and execute somebody, the way Walt has done a few times (the gang bangers when he saved Jesse, now Jack) but Walt was going up against experienced killers. He wouldn't have lasted a second.

I kept thinking he was going to use the M60 another way, never thought of it popping out of his trunk and just auto firing into a building like that but I did think it was going to be remote controlled to some extent (I kept thinking of the movie Shooter, actually, the sniper with the remote controlled gun cuz he's in a wheel chair). Seeing him in the desert building the contraption just kind of confirmed my beliefs. Still, it was refreshing and definitely in character for Walt, I agree.

Just wanted to say I thought it was fairly obvious from the get go that he was not going to just Rambo in with an M60.

It wasn't the happiest ending for Walt, but I didn't think it was that unapolegetic like Vince said. If he never got to see Skylar again, if he killed Gretchen and Elliot, if he would have died getting shot from Jesse or even his own contraption, if it was a more gruesome death with more suffering. Then I would say it is unapolegetic. It is hard to describe what I mean, but maybe some of you get it.

I understand that "Walt" decided to comeback for the last half of the season, but it was like he was "breaking bad" and then decided to come back from it. Which it was obviously too late, and it creates character complexity, I get it. They probably made the right choice of how it all ended. But part of me wanted to see Walt go full Heisenberg to the max at the end and die in the same way. I thought it would have been fitting. He sort of did, but I think some of you know what I mean. It is hard to explain.

Chris said:

I want to comment on the last point, essentially pointless for me to toot my own horn after the fact because nobody knows if I'm lying or not :chuckles: But just bear with me. All the way back to when we first started to see the ending piece together at the start of this season, I thought there was zero percent chance Walt was going to just go apeshit on people with an M60. It was never in his character. He isn't Rambo. Could he even carry the thing in a firefight? When was Walt ever in a firefight to begin with? Anybody could pull a trigger on a gun and execute somebody, the way Walt has done a few times (the gang bangers when he saved Jesse, now Jack) but Walt was going up against experienced killers. He wouldn't have lasted a second.

I kept thinking he was going to use the M60 another way, never thought of it popping out of his trunk and just auto firing into a building like that but I did think it was going to be remote controlled to some extent (I kept thinking of the movie Shooter, actually, the sniper with the remote controlled gun cuz he's in a wheel chair). Seeing him in the desert building the contraption just kind of confirmed my beliefs. Still, it was refreshing and definitely in character for Walt, I agree.

Just wanted to say I thought it was fairly obvious from the get go that he was not going to just Rambo in with an M60.

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Well I didn't know exactly how. I didn't think "Rambo" exactly, but I figure he would have to catch them off guard. That is basically all I thought about it. He certaintly did that. And he kind of committed suicide in a way. Not really. And not with the ricin like people thought. I never thought that would be the case from the get go, but I started to second guess myself right before the episode started for some reason. I went with Lydia, but thought it was too obvious. The show kept you guessing. It will set you up, and then go through with it or go a completely different direction to throw you off. Well done.

theSTEREO. said:

I read like six reviews today, and a few posts in this thread, that called the ending "too happy". Wut?

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I think it was because of how heavily the episode focused on Walt and completely ignored characters unless they were in a scene with him. It overshadowed all the damage he had caused and, to a certain extent, overlooked it in favor of painting Walt as a hero, which was kind of the opposite of what Gilligan had been promising all season.

Yes, his family has been destroyed, but we barely saw that. We got one scene with Skylar, half a scene with Marie, and no dialogue from Flynn. We didn't get to see them find Hank's remains, nor did we really see any of the impact that all of Walt's decisions had on his family members. As I mentioned above, it just felt like everything was wrapped up in too neat a bow for a series that had gotten as dark as it did in the final few seasons and particularly the last couple of episodes. Walt got his money to his kids (presumably) and no one that didn't deserve it met their maker. Compared to the past two weeks, it felt goddamned cheery.

You take the episode/series the way you want to. It is very much open for interpretation on many levels.
You saw how Skyler was living. While you didn't see the everyday struggle, you got the gist that life is very hard for her.
The scene between the two of them have me a sense that she still cared/loved Walt. Although they never touched/embraced, it came off as a very sincere/caring moment-- "You look terrible." And even with the distance between them (the shot), there was still a closeness.

Now, other people may have seen it completely differently, but I think VG wanted the viewer to take it for what it was-- they way he shot it. Things are always going to be interpreted on a scale.

I love that Walt dies in a meth lab. He was actually happy/free at that moment.

A better ending in my opinion would have been Walt un wounded cooking when the cops showed up. Get arrested. Next scene show the feds digging up Hank's body or even a funeral for hank and Gomez. The final scene would show Walt in a holding cell a few days later with flu like symptoms. Alluding to him poisoning himself with the ricin

Walter White said:

Yes, I will say one more thing about it. It isn't even about bandwagoning or being hipster or any of that talk. I'm gonna like what I like regardless, because I am me. But just on a bigger scale, what annoys me is when people just like stuff in general because it is popular and they want to do everything the crowd does. Those people are fake. If you like something because you actually like it, whether it is mainstream or not, that is cool. Just be yourself is what I am saying. And that is all I will say about that.

Now, about the finale. What specifics did you not like about the finale? The main thing that threw me for a loop is when they started playing up beat music at the end. I get it was probably to lighten would could have been a very dark and depressing finale, but I kind of wanted that. That is where it was heading since the beginning. Maybe that is where we agree? Or do you mean something completely different?

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It was too much suspension of disbelief. I know this show prides itself on being a little ridiculous but in a believable sort of way. A few things that bothered me

1. Nazi Jack wanting to kill Walt but getting hell bent about Walt calling Jesse his partner, asking Todd to retrieve Jesse from mid-cook. This was like every bad guy/good guy end scene, where bad guy talks too much, giving good guy just enough time to kill bad guy. Why did Jack give 2 fucks?

2. The machine gun being placed at the exact location all Nazi's were going to get killed.

3. Him slipping Lydia the ricin. I know it was in her sugar, we knew this 7 weeks ago. But how specifically did it happen? I didn't need to see him dumping it in her coffee, but what happened? Did he tip the waiter?

4. One of the most wanted men in the US, driving from NH to NM without incident. Also, the DEA not knowing he was at Skylars house.

5. Him dying the exact moment the Feds showed up was weird (he was standing tall just 10 seconds prior).

Look, I hate to play this card, I really do. I wanted to love it but I didn't. I know what VG said, that he won't be able to satisfy everyone. I wasn't dissatisfied with this season at all. Ozymandias was the best hour of TV I have ever seen. Granite State was the most depressing hour of TV I have ever seen. They could have ended the show at either one of those and it would have been perfect. IMO, we didn't need closure for everything.

As far as what Stereo said, this was about as cheerful of an ending that BB could give. I know it's dark as hell, but when everything wraps up as succinctly as it did and got (supposedly) everyone off the hook...

When it went to commercial break at 9:55 I began to wonder how in the world they'd wrap up the season in the upcoming 15 minutes of actual showtime.

Liked the finale but with 15 min more I think they could've made it better. Just tie up a few more loose ends. Another death from his family I think would've taken the finale's intensity to another level.