General political discussion

Tornicade said:

What are you trying to say.
Technology eliminate jobs every day.
Bank Tellers, Meter readers, Librarians, Secretaries (1.1 million jobs lost from 2000-2010), various accounting jobs. Cashiers,

Truck drivers, bus drivers, limousine drivers.. that's about 4 million jobs. that will be lost at some point.

and its all strategic. the strategy of using technology to reduce manpower.

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Don't really care to discuss the distinction between manual labor and jobs.

The internet and personal computers provided more jobs than they did eliminate.

Cars created jobs.

Television, radio and airplanes.

Driver less jobs are a draining of the workforce.

Not all tech is bad. Some is all bad.

David. said:

Don't really care to discuss the distinction between manual labor and jobs.

The internet and personal computers provided more jobs than they did eliminate.

Cars created jobs.

Television, radio and airplanes.

Driver less jobs are a draining of the workforce.

Not all tech is bad. Some is all bad.

Click to expand...

who says technology making the occupation of truck driver obsolete is bad?

Technology tend to make jobs obsolete and replace them with new jobs that require less manpower than before.

It is the way of things.

Everyone is always one technological advancement away from having their job become obsolete. Including companies.

so your saying self driving technology is bad?

You want me to assume what your saying and I am not gonna do that.

Tornicade said:

who says technology making the occupation of truck driver obsolete is bad?

Technology tend to make jobs obsolete and replace them with new jobs that require less manpower than before.

It is the way of things.

Everyone is always one technological advancement away from having their job become obsolete. Including companies.

so your saying self driving technology is bad?

You want me to assume what your saying and I am not gonna do that.

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What jobs are driver less cars going to create?

Are you arguing that overall tech creates more jobs? Your last post contradicted that. That's like saying all regulation is good or bad. Na there's shitty components that shouldn't exist and there's the good stuff that should.


Yes I think driver less cars are bad. Are you saying that technology as a whole is going go provide truck drivers and uber drivers with new jobs? No chance in hell.

I've heard people educated on technology and the impact on the economy. They use a weak af argument that the internet created jobs.

Making fucking cars drive themselves isn't the internet. That argument was pulled apart instantly.

Some tech is great, some get dropped on hiroshima. This is like saying all sex is good sex. What if the dude has no dick? Or it's a brother and his autistic sister?

David. said:

What jobs are driver less cars going to create?

Are you arguing that overall tech creates more jobs? Your last post contradicted that. That's like saying all regulation is good or bad. Na there's shitty components that shouldn't exist and there's the good stuff that should.


Yes I think driver less cars are bad. Are you saying that technology as a whole is going go provide truck drivers and uber drivers with new jobs? No chance in hell.

I've heard people educated on technology and the impact on the economy. They use a weak af argument that the internet created jobs.

Making fucking cars drive themselves isn't the internet. That argument was pulled apart instantly.

Some tech is great, some get dropped on hiroshima. This is like saying all sex is good sex. What if the dude has no dick? Or it's a brother and his autistic sister?

Click to expand...

Lol perhaps at some point every road system in America will be automated transport or who knows maybe someone invents a terleporter and no one needs to drive.


However Automated trucking industry would rely on efficiency and logistical oversight. . the first thing that would need to be done sis the freeways would need to be overhauled. and the first implementation would be largely regarding the freeway systemand long hauls.. drivers will still be needed too get products to the highway access points.

Shipping at 25% cost is huge on the economy. not only is shipping goods cheaper but a higher volume of goods may be transported.

This means a shift in the labor market. As Manufacturing and service will be in higher demand and once investors start recouping from the massive freeway overhaul projects more investment capital will be available for Other technology and goods.


This isn't something that would be implemented overnight and a million truck drivers are out of work. This would be a phased transition.

Tornicade said:

Lol perhaps at some point every road system in America will be automated transport or who knows maybe someone invents a terleporter and no one needs to drive.


However Automated trucking industry would rely on efficiency and logistical oversight. . the first thing that would need to be done sis the freeways would need to be overhauled. and the first implementation would be largely regarding the freeway systemand long hauls.. drivers will still be needed too get products to the highway access points.

Shipping at 25% cost is huge on the economy. not only is shipping goods cheaper but a higher volume of goods may be transported.

This means a shift in the labor market. As Manufacturing and service will be in higher demand and once investors start recouping from the massive freeway overhaul projects more investment capital will be available for Other technology and goods.


This isn't something that would be implemented overnight and a million truck drivers are out of work. This would be a phased transition.

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So the number of people overseeing logistics will replace 4000000 jobs?

So drivers now have to get into construction? And that's just that? As someone who's had to change careers several fucking times, I mean this in the least personal way possible, go Fuck yourself.

The direct transition from everyone to one different thing is not going to happen, nor will it be easy, and takes a shit ton of effort school money time anxiety, hopelessness, luck, opportunism to make it work.

Go save on shipping costs. Who claims the savings? The consumer? Where does the money that pays the construction workers on freeways come from?

Yes I've seen the phaseout, first hand. Again, go Fuck yourself (don't mean anything personal by it). I ultimately have no job. I was making 70g for three years.

So I go into debt and gamble on accounting being the right thing for me. In the meantime some criminal activity is perpetrated (related? Idk.), I get hooked on drugs to study, my record is fucked and I can't get a job in accounting and I have 30k in debt, and now get one profitable driving day a week instead of five, and I'm going to be phased out entirely by a job draining atrocity.

The first transition didn't go well either. I had to transition and put in less work hours and make less money and go to school, and got blind lucky on an opportunity that passed by. There was a couple years of WTF in between sales and driving, where, I didn't make fucking 60k and didn't have an immediate answer.

Fucking car that drives itself, it's the fast food of innovation. The fleshlight of technology

Go lose a career, god forbid two, and casually remark that everyone will find new jobs. That slave labor defines us and requires a perfect storm , and resources, to find something that works.

technology is a two edge sword. it reduces labor cost, but boosts labor productivity, which drives up wages. Truck automaton will happen and will eat jobs which are currently blue collar middle class. It will also create opportunities in maintenance and repair of said machines, but these will not be the same people, and will be disruptive.

David. said:

So the number of people overseeing logistics will replace 4000000 jobs?

So drivers now have to get into construction? And that's just that? As someone who's had to change careers several fucking times, I mean this in the least personal way possible, go Fuck yourself.
........

Go lose a career, god forbid two, and casually remark that everyone will find new jobs. That slave labor defines us and requires a perfect storm , and resources, to find something that works.

Click to expand...

Much more elegantly put.. This is the middle class experience that i know.. The invisible hand is clumsy, and economic shifts are seismic. how do we handle this?

i have considered the idea of requiring companies that shut down to manage no just the disposal of the building, but the transiton of the community.. But how do you enforce it. A company goes bankrupt and then what...

CleveRocks said:

technology is a two edge sword. it reduces labor cost, but boosts labor productivity, which drives up wages. Truck automaton will happen and will eat jobs which are currently blue collar middle class. It will also create opportunities in maintenance and repair of said machines, but these will not be the same people, and will be disruptive.

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Does it?

Agreed on the rest.

David. said:

So the number of people overseeing logistics will replace 4000000 jobs?

So drivers now have to get into construction? And that's just that? As someone who's had to change careers several fucking times, I mean this in the least personal way possible, go Fuck yourself.

The direct transition from everyone to one different thing is not going to happen, nor will it be easy, and takes a shit ton of effort school money time anxiety, hopelessness, luck, opportunism to make it work.

Go save on shipping costs. Who claims the savings? The consumer? Where does the money that pays the construction workers on freeways come from?

Yes I've seen the phaseout, first hand. Again, go Fuck yourself (don't mean anything personal by it). I ultimately have no job. I was making 70g for three years.

So I go into debt and gamble on accounting being the right thing for me. In the meantime some criminal activity is perpetrated (related? Idk.), record is fucked and I can't get a job in accounting and I have 30k in debt, and now get one profitable driving day a week instead of five, and I'm going to be phased out entirely by a job draining atrocity.

The first transition didn't go well either. I had to transition and put in less work hours and make less money and go to school, and got blind lucky on an opportunity that passed by. There was a couple years of WTF in between sales and driving, where, I didn't make fucking 60k and didn't have an immediate answer.

Fucking car that drives itself, it's the fast food of innovation. The fleshlight of technology

Go lose a career, god forbid two, and casually remark that everyone will find new jobs. That slave labor defines us and requires a perfect storm , and resources, to find something that works.

Click to expand...

I think 47% of current jobs are expected to be lost to Technology by 2033. not just jobs that impact you. Of course you don't care about those jobs only the ones related to truck drivers... your not even a truck driver.

Technology forces industries and professions to Evolve.

In 1850 over 60% of the population worked in agricultures.. now it is 2.7 percent.

Factories are steadily impacted every year. it used to take, Japan was producing more cars with fewer than 600k workers that Detroit was making with 2.5 million workers.

not only could a robot displace 4 jobs. it paid itself off in a year.

1980 Steelworkers numbered over 120 k. 1990 20k for the same output.

lets look at the coal industry.
1925 . 588 thousand workers produced 520 Million tons of coal.
1982 less than 208 workers produces 774 million tons of coal.
now it is even half of that

Commercial banking in the last decade has eliminated 700k jobs and look to eliminate more over the next decade.


You want to paint me as callous and short sighted while your only thinking of yourself and how something might impact you.
Yet think of the impact of all the truck stops and hotels that generate revenue from truck drivers. Those exit ramps on the freeway where out of nowhere you see fast food joints and gas stations.. guess what. those automated trucks done eat, rent a room, etc


Your idea that people twice your age doesn't understand what it means to lose a trade or profession to technologies highly laughable.

Those jobs will be lost and it will happen but until we see unemployment skyrocket to15-25% as a nation nothin political will be done to address the issue.

nor can one accurate predict the labor and income model 10-15 years from now from a bubble.

CleveRocks said:

Much more elegantly put.. This is the middle class experience that i know.. The invisible hand is clumsy, and economic shifts are seismic. how do we handle this?

i have considered the idea of requiring companies that shut down to manage no just the disposal of the building, but the transiton of the community.. But how do you enforce it. A company goes bankrupt and then what...

Click to expand...

Consider the invisible hand as not clumsy, but as graceful: intellectual as William Buckley and calculated as people I cannot name.

A company goes bankrupt and a fraction of those employees never recover, through their transition and it's perils. Debt to the government skyrockets, their banks profit. Their banks that are in bed with the government that are in bed with these companies that we're talking about: uber, google, apple, etc. If you believe in the philosophy "poverty breeds criminality", and look at statistics, you won't be surprised that some end up in privatized prisons, never able to return to the work force as they were able. Others will go on welfare, which like consumerism, serves as morphine for the working class (whose taxes pay to provide them a better drug and a more comfortable experience).

others just fail to reach where they were before.

As far as the companies, they go bankrupt. Their diversified executives and board members don't.

To go into more detail on those specific companies, you allude to, they don't shut down, they prosper with less costs (employees), at least the ones were speaking.

But Let's go back to companies that do shut down. Chapter 7 bk, what happens? First people to get paid by the liquidation of assets is the banks, or alternatively put, those investors with least risk. Then bondholders. Last, are the stockholders, the Prima facie "owners" of the company.(they're not).

Just food for thought.

CleveRocks said:

technology is a two edge sword. it reduces labor cost, but boosts labor productivity, which drives up wages. Truck automaton will happen and will eat jobs which are currently blue collar middle class. It will also create opportunities in maintenance and repair of said machines, but these will not be the same people, and will be disruptive.

Click to expand...

CleveRocks said:

Much more elegantly put.. This is the middle class experience that i know.. The invisible hand is clumsy, and economic shifts are seismic. how do we handle this?

i have considered the idea of requiring companies that shut down to manage no just the disposal of the building, but the transiton of the community.. But how do you enforce it. A company goes bankrupt and then what...

Click to expand...

Corporate America has made the Work force largely disposable. As the Government continues to erode workers right and support Corporate rights while transitioning from public welfare to corporate policies. The labor force will always be at the mercy of the corporate force and corporations will continue to exploit laborers financially.

Tornicade said:

I think 47% of current jobs are expected to be lost to Technology by 2033. not just jobs that impact you. Of course you don't care about those jobs only the ones related to truck drivers... your not even a truck driver.

Technology forces industries and professions to Evolve.

In 1850 over 60% of the population worked in agricultures.. now it is 2.7 percent.

Factories are steadily impacted every year. it used to take, Japan was producing more cars with fewer than 600k workers that Detroit was making with 2.5 million workers.

not only could a robot displace 4 jobs. it paid itself off in a year.

1980 Steelworkers numbered over 120 k. 1990 20k for the same output.

lets look at the coal industry.
1925 . 588 thousand workers produced 520 Million tons of coal.
1982 less than 208 workers produces 774 million tons of coal.
now it is even half of that

Commercial banking in the last decade has eliminated 700k jobs and look to eliminate more over the next decade.


You want to paint me as callous and short sighted while your only thinking of yourself and how something might impact you.
Yet think of the impact of all the truck stops and hotels that generate revenue from truck drivers. Those exit ramps on the freeway where out of nowhere you see fast food joints and gas stations.. guess what. those automated trucks done eat, rent a room, etc


Your idea that people twice your age doesn't understand what it means to lose a trade or profession to technologies highly laughable.

Those jobs will be lost and it will happen but until we see unemployment skyrocket to15-25% as a nation nothin political will be done to address the issue.

nor can one accurate predict the labor and income model 10-15 years from now from a bubble.

Click to expand...

I'll address only s couple points.

Sure I'm younger. I'm also highly educated and have life experience in exactly what we're talking about. I'm not speaking to only my interests.

No, there is a pattern. You CAN tell what will happen 10-15 years from now, just as you can predict what will happen to 47% of jobs in 2033.

I'm Not painting you as callous. I'm telling you nothing you don't honestly know, which is that this will be shit for the middle class.


As far as unemployment, please find me accurate numbers that actually contextualise the pulse of today. And the middle class now compared to that after the new deal. I already know you know.

If you want to talk about job loss as someone who is older as a credit, then talk about it as such. Your first set of posts didn't. To consider a driverless car a net positive is something I don't think you truly believe.

I guarantee nothing political will happen anyways, outside of redefining what "unemployed" represents. Or employed. Who's going to take political action? George soros', the CIA's, and Goldman Sachs "liberal" Hillary Clinton? Trilateral committee's "liberal" Barack Obama who.. literally redefined the definition of unemployed?

David. said:

A company goes bankrupt and a fraction of those employees never recover, through their transition and it's perils. Debt to the government skyrockets, their banks profit. Their banks that are in bed with the government that are in bed with these companies that we're talking about: uber, google, etc. If you believe in the philosophy "poverty breeds criminality", and look at statistics, you won't be surprised that some end up in privatized prisons, never able to return to the work force as they were able. Others will go on welfare, which like consumerism, is morphine for the working class.

others just fail to reach where they were before.

As far as the companies, they go bankrupt. Their diversified executives don't.

To go into more detail on those companies, they don't shut down, they prosper with less costs (employees), at least the ones were speaking.

But Let's go back to companies that do shut down. Chapter 7 bk, what happens? First people to get paid by the liquidation of assets is the banks, or alternatively put, those investors with least risk. Then bondholders. Last, are the stockholders, the Prima facie "owners" of the company.(they're not).

Just food for thought.

Click to expand...

Instead let look at the trucking industry.
Company XYZ logistics Cuts loose a 100 drivers and see profits increase. meanwhile independent contractor is out of work and a career with no financial protection

You say technology is bad because it has eliminated those job. I say the socioeconomic structure of the of the employee or contractor having no stake in the company. is the real bad.

David. said:

I'll address only s couple points.

Sure I'm younger. I'm also highly educated and have life experience in exactly what we're talking about. I'm not speaking to only my interests.

No, there is a pattern. You CAN tell what will happen 10-15 years from now, just as you can predict what will happen to 47% of jobs in 2033.

I'm Not painting you as callous. I'm telling you nothing you don't honestly know, which is that this will be shit for the middle class.


As far as unemployment, please find me accurate numbers that actually contextualise the pulse of today. And the middle class now compared to that after the new deal. I already know you know.

If you want to talk about job loss as someone who is older as a credit, then talk about it as such. Your first set of posts didn't.

Click to expand...

The middle class is dead and has been for awhile.
My personal experience Is mine to share or not share.

What I can say is that Things become obsolete and that is the structure of the labor market in any society.

I'm not sure what pattern your suggesting that will happen with the automation of the trucking industry that hasnt occurred with the automation of any other industry.

What does unemployment now have to do with what levels of unemployment I believe there would need to be to effect social and economic change in how we do business.

We just elected a candidate to the white house who promised people he would bring back obsolete jobs in industries that have been far more more impacted by technology than outsourcing, who is anti union, and has never hown to give a shit about the American worker as an employer.


As long as the government continues to give protections to the banks and large corporations at the expense of the American worker it will take nothing short of massive unemployment for economic reform.

otherwise blaming technology is short sighted and doesn't address the real issues.

Tornicade said:

The middle class is dead and has been for awhile.
My personal experience Is mine to share or not share.

What I can say is that Things become obsolete and that is the structure of the labor market in any society.

I'm not sure what pattern your suggesting that will happen with the automation of the trucking industry that hasnt occurred with the automation of any other industry.

What does unemployment now have to do with what levels of unemployment I believe there would need to be to effect social and economic change in how we do business.

We just elected a candidate to the white house who promised people he would bring back obsolete jobs in industries that have been far more more impacted by technology than outsourcing, who is anti union, and has never hown to give a shit about the American worker as an employer.


As long as the government continues to give protections to the banks and large corporations at the expense of the American worker it will take nothing short of massive unemployment for economic reform.

otherwise blaming technology is short sighted and doesn't address the real issues.

Click to expand...

I don't blame all technology. That's a leap you made that I distinguished was largely beneficial and distinct from driverless cars.

I listed a number of technological innovations that were beneficial to the working class and society. This isn't one of them and you know it. This is an attack on the working class, canon of modern society and a cannonball for capitalism.