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2016-2017 Indians Off-Season Thread

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AZ_ said:
Yeah, the problem is he can't hit.
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Well the biggest issue is he was hurt when he was up the first time with us and he was hurt at the start of last season. He hit .323 in the last 46 games at AAA. I think the kid could be around .270 area if he is healthy which he seems to find minor injuries all the time. Hence why he wasn't up with the team at the end of last season I am pretty sure.
 
sportscoach said:
Well the biggest issue is he was hurt when he was up the first time with us and he was hurt at the start of last season. He hit .323 in the last 46 games at AAA. I think the kid could be around .270 area if he is healthy which he seems to find minor injuries all the time
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The biggest issue is that he can't hit.
 
AZ_ said:
The biggest issue is that he can't hit.
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He is a better hitter than we have been giving him credit for. He was hitting .260 before he got hurt when he was up with us and like I said over .300 at AAA when he was healthy. He is a good defensive 3B and I think if figures out how to stay healthy he will hit. Never an all star, but at least above average.
 
sportscoach said:
He is a better hitter than we have been giving him credit for. He was hitting .260 before he got hurt when he was up with us and like I said over .300 at AAA when he was healthy. He is a good defensive 3B and I think if figures out how to stay healthy he will hit. Never an all star, but at least above average.
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He's not, really.

Doesn't get on base, doesn't hit consistently, not enough power for the position.

Good defender, but not a lot of reason to believe Diaz hasn't passed him, regardless of his 40 man spot, one that he's probably not long to hold at this point.
 
AZ_ said:
He's not, really.

Doesn't get on base, doesn't hit consistently, not enough power for the position.

Good defender, but not a lot of reason to believe Diaz hasn't passed him, regardless of his 40 man spot, one that he's probably not long to hold at this point.
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He has only had one season where he wasn't on the DL and that was 2014 and he hit 18 HRs. He has more power with his bat than Diaz does, but he doesn't walk much, but he doesn't strike out all that much either. I think if he figured out how to stay healthy I think he is solid as a 3B.
 
sportscoach said:
He has only had one season where he wasn't on the DL and that was 2014 and he hit 18 HRs. He has more power with his bat than Diaz does, but he doesn't walk much, but he doesn't strike out all that much either. I think if he figured out how to stay healthy I think he is solid as a 3B.
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Gio's time as a prospect has come and gone.

The hope was, after his swing path and mechanics were exposed at the MLB level, that he would have improved on it, but he didn't last year. Healthy or not, the poor mechanics that will keep him as a well below average hitter in the MLB stuck around last year in AAA, which isn't good.

Terrific defensive 3B, but Diaz has flown past him as a prospect, and its not very close anymore.

And Gio has been healthy for plenty of seasons...most of them he's barely cracked a .700 OPS...that's not good enough at a premier hitting position, and those are minors numbers.
 
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BimboColesHair said:
Gio's time as a prospect has come and gone.

The hope was, after his swing path and mechanics were exposed at the MLB level, that he would have improved on it, but he didn't last year. Healthy or not, the poor mechanics that will keep him as a well below average hitter in the MLB stuck around last year in AAA, which isn't good.

Terrific defensive 3B, but Diaz has flown past him as a prospect, and its not very close anymore.

And Gio has been healthy for plenty of seasons...most of them he's barely cracked a .700 OPS...that's not good enough at a premier hitting position, and those are minors numbers.
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Gio hasn't been healthy, he's been on the DL every season since we got him but 2014 and even when he was in the pros he got hurt and played through it and his batting average dropped.

Diaz is not as good at 3B, at the end of the day if you look at his numbers. He has less power than Urshela and not strong defensively has scouts thought he would be. His strength is he is a patient, takes walks and is very good with contact. They are the opposite ends, but we will know by the end of spring training how everything and in a year or so from now we will know who is right
 
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sportscoach said:
Gio hasn't been healthy, he's been on the DL every season since we got him but 2014 and even when he was in the pros he got hurt and played through it and his batting average dropped.

Diaz is not a good 3B, at the end of the day if you look at his numbers. He has less power than Urshela and not strong defensively has scouts thought he would be. His strength is he is a patient, takes walks and is very good with contact. They are the opposite ends, but we will know by the end of spring training how everything and in a year or so from now we will know who is right
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What are you talking about?

Gio was healthy from 2009 to 2014, and in that time compiled an OPS under .700. 2015 and 16 he has dealt with injuries, yes. But when you aren't cracking .700 OPS in the lower levels of minors ball, you aren't a good hitter.

And you need to understand something about this board sooner or later. Some of us watch more minors ball than MLB ball, and follow prospects closer than the MLB players...

Diaz is an adequate 3B. His arm gets him into trouble though, which is where a lot of his Es come from. But the biggest difference, defensively, between the 2 is that Diaz can play 3 other positions besides 3B, while that's all Gio can do. And one thing that has been proven under Tito is that he values defensive flexibility more than most MLB managers.

And Diaz is just a better hitter plain and simple. If Gio has better power than him, why has Diaz slugged at .410 in the minors so far, compared to Gio's .402?

There's more to hitting for power than just hitting HRs, which coincidentally Diaz continues to hit more of every season as a pro...

I'll take the better overall hitter over the guy who can hit a few more HRs every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Gio was never as good of a prospect as Diaz is right now. Ever. Even after his 2014 season.

If you want to keep talking about this, take it over to the 2017 minors thread...
 
BimboColesHair said:
What are you talking about?

Gio was healthy from 2009 to 2014, and in that time compiled an OPS under .700. 2015 and 16 he has dealt with injuries, yes. But when you aren't cracking .700 OPS in the lower levels of minors ball, you aren't a good hitter.

And you need to understand something about this board sooner or later. Some of us watch more minors ball than MLB ball, and follow prospects closer than the MLB players...

Diaz is an adequate 3B. His arm gets him into trouble though, which is where a lot of his Es come from. But the biggest difference, defensively, between the 2 is that Diaz can play 3 other positions besides 3B, while that's all Gio can do. And one thing that has been proven under Tito is that he values defensive flexibility more than most MLB managers.

And Diaz is just a better hitter plain and simple. If Gio has better power than him, why has Diaz slugged at .410 in the minors so far, compared to Gio's .402?

There's more to hitting for power than just hitting HRs, which coincidentally Diaz continues to hit more of every season as a pro...

I'll take the better overall hitter over the guy who can hit a few more HRs every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Gio was never as good of a prospect as Diaz is right now. Ever. Even after his 2014 season.

If you want to keep talking about this, take it over to the 2017 minors thread...
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I actually feel Diaz should be on the 25 man roster and I have said that a million times on my posts, but the whole thing was the fact that in 2017, Urshela will be called up before Diaz if there is an injury to either Brantley or Ramirez since he is on the 40 man roster and is a better 3B. So at least in 2017, Urshela is higher on the depth chart when it comes to 3B.

Urshela is more streaky and inconsistent as a hitter, but when he is on, he is actually really good. 2014 he was actually 100% and did really well.

May 4, 2012Carolina Mudcats placed 3B Giovanny Urshela on the 7-day disabled list.
http://m.mlb.com/news/article/10170...-giovanny-urshelas-hurts-knee-in-winter-ball/
April 9, 2015Columbus Clippers placed 3B Giovanny Urshela on the 7-day disabled list. Back injury
May 11, 2015Columbus Clippers placed 3B Giovanny Urshela on the 7-day disabled list retroactive to May 8, 2015. Lower back strain
http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ssf/2015/09/giovanny_urshela_limited_by_so.html (Sore Shoulder that caused his AVG to drop at the end of the season)
May 12, 2016Columbus Clippers placed 3B Giovanny Urshela on the 7-day disabled list.

Do not tell me he hasn't been hurt, since he hasn't played a full season since 2014. I get you see/pay attention to the minors, but injuries have hit him hard the last couple years, and 2016 he injuried his hamstring, which is a nagging injury usually and hit .224 for the next month after he got back from it.

After all-star break numbers in 2016
Games AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO AVG OBP SLG OPS
46 186 24 60 13 1 4 30 6 17 .323 .338 .468 .806

Sorry I am willing to listen if you say actual information, but look at the numbers in 2014 at AAA his ops was over .800 and was that way once he got healthy again in 2016. Injuries have caused his OPS type of numbers to go down.
 
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http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/01/indians-to-re-sign-adam-moore.html

Indians just resigned Adam Moore to a minor league deal with an invite to spring training and incentives if he makes the ball club.

Essentially this is just a depth move, but since he has been in the organization for awhile I like getting him back since he is familiar with the staff. I think he will end up in our FO at this rate once he retires lol
 
sportscoach said:
I actually feel Diaz should be on the 25 man roster and I have said that a million times on my posts, but the whole thing was the fact that in 2017, Urshela will be called up before Diaz if there is an injury to either Brantley or Ramirez since he is on the 40 man roster and is a better 3B. So at least in 2017, Urshela is higher on the depth chart when it comes to 3B.

Urshela is more streaky and inconsistent as a hitter, but when he is on, he is actually really good. 2014 he was actually 100% and did really well.

May 4, 2012Carolina Mudcats placed 3B Giovanny Urshela on the 7-day disabled list.
http://m.mlb.com/news/article/10170...-giovanny-urshelas-hurts-knee-in-winter-ball/
April 9, 2015Columbus Clippers placed 3B Giovanny Urshela on the 7-day disabled list. Back injury
May 11, 2015Columbus Clippers placed 3B Giovanny Urshela on the 7-day disabled list retroactive to May 8, 2015. Lower back strain
http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ssf/2015/09/giovanny_urshela_limited_by_so.html (Sore Shoulder that caused his AVG to drop at the end of the season)
May 12, 2016Columbus Clippers placed 3B Giovanny Urshela on the 7-day disabled list.

Do not tell me he hasn't been hurt, since he hasn't played a full season since 2014. I get you see/pay attention to the minors, but injuries have hit him hard the last couple years, and 2016 he injuried his hamstring, which is a nagging injury usually and hit .224 for the next month after he got back from it.

After all-star break numbers in 2016
Games AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO AVG OBP SLG OPS
46 186 24 60 13 1 4 30 6 17 .323 .338 .468 .806

Sorry I am willing to listen if you say actual information, but look at the numbers in 2014 at AAA his ops was over .800 and was that way once he got healthy again in 2016. Injuries have caused his OPS type of numbers to go down.
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From 09 to 14 he went on the 7 day DL once, and you're telling me he has only been healthy for 1 season?

Come on man...

15 and 16, yes he was hurt, I've already agreed with you on that. But blaming his inability to hit in the lower levels from 09-14 on injuries is laughable.

Gio has Gold Glove caliber defensive skills at 3B, but he will never be able to stick in a lineup because he is a huge negative offensively at a position that needs to produce offensively.

And like I said. His mechanics and swing path are flawed, and he still hasn't fixed them.

Go re-read our 2014 and 2015 minors threads/Indians season threads and see who was sticking up for Gio then more than most...but I expected him to fix his swing once he was shown it won't work at the MLB level.

Some guys can get by with long, loopy swings and high leg kicks in the minors, but most of them can't get away with it in the majors...Gio didn't get away with it, and he didn't fix it...that's a problem, and will be a problem until he fixes it.

And there are going to be some 40 man spots open soon enough...wouldn't be surprised if Diaz is given one of them...but he will be up in 2017, think that's a given...

Like I said...you want to keep talking about this, take it over to the minors threads...if not, lets stop talking about it.
 
Would you guys be opposed to bring back Justin Masterson on a minor league deal with an invite to spring training? This is a bit of a random question, but I wouldn't mind giving him another shot to be sincere.
 
sportscoach said:
Would you guys be opposed to bring back Justin Masterson on a minor league deal with an invite to spring training? This is a bit of a random question, but I wouldn't mind giving him another shot to be sincere.
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I would not as long as he is LR never should he start but in the right role in a place he knows it would be a reason to give him a look. It all depends on what he wants and what we offer but again I would like the idea if he was to work out the Bullpen. You always need pitching depth and we saw that last year.
 
sportscoach said:
He could make it through waivers this time to be honest. You never know, but it is possible since we are really low on the waiver thing, so maybe we are the last team that wants him and we can keep him at AAA where we were gonna have him play anyways.

What do you guys know about Frias?

The biggest question is, did we need another pitcher? I mean at the moment we only have 15 position players on our 40 man roster which leaves me a bit concerned since we don't know the full health of Brantley and Meija is far from MLB ready so we only have 14 to use.

We need to trade/cut a pitcher or two before camp starts since we need to get another guy or two onto our roster that we can use.

We did sign Austin Jackson who possibly can make the team. Diaz and Zimmer will likely end up on the 40 man roster sometime this season/next offseason since one (Diaz) is an MLB ready bat and two (Zimmer) is a 5 tool potential guy who is close to being ready for the pros. (Though me personally I think he needs another season at AAA)

Would you guys be opposed if we made a move from the surplus of arms for a Blackmon/Kiermaier right now in CF, that would make sense to me cause it could free up space on the roster and upgrade it as well.
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You're way too concerned with the position by position makeup of the 40 man. The 40 man is fluid, we can change it as needed, and yes, over the course of a season we are more likely to need pitching replacements that hitting replacements, especially in the bullpen. Last year we used 27 pitchers and 22 hitters (If you do the math, that's quite a few more than 40). The 40 man will most definitely be adjusted as needed throughout the season, but for there is no need to concern yourself with what percentage is used on hitters as opposed to pitchers.
 
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D-Wreck said:
You're way too concerned with the position by position makeup of the 40 man. The 40 man is fluid, we can change it as needed, and yes, over the course of a season we are more likely to need pitching replacements that hitting replacements, especially in the bullpen. Last year we used 27 pitchers and 22 hitters (If you do the math, that's quite a few more than 40). The 40 man will most definitely be adjusted as needed throughout the season, but for there is no need to concern yourself with what percentage is used on hitters as opposed to pitchers.
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I know as well as anyone it is very fluid and i can pretty much name everyone that was on the 40 man roster off the top of my head but I just saying I don't exactly like our setup since our strength in the minors is from the pitching side and not the hitting side and we literally have no hitters available if injuries happen. We had way more position players at the start of spring than we do this year and less options for choices as well. I know we will still sign some guys,

I always like to plan for injuries and right now let's say Kipnis gets hurt, then Ramirez to 2nd and Urshela called up for third and that's our roster depth. I know it's early, but you guys are like the guys we invited to spring training like Ronny Rodriguez and Eric Stamets are nobody's, yet if injuries happen they are our only depth we have. Diaz is the only person I feel is truly ready for the Pros, Zimmer's ceiling is high just needs another season in the minors.

That is why I am wondering if we are going to make a bigger move than people are expecting since right now the guys who are essentially out of options are Adams, Milner and Gonzalez and I am doubting Gonzalez doesn't make the team. Part of me says we need to make a move to get more postional depth in the organization is all I said in this entire thing lol

So what about Frias? Why did we go get him or is he just an depth piece?
 
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