Cleveland Browns Quarterback Position

Hard to not like McCown. The guy gets cut, and wants us to do well anyway. Sees Jimmy G as a guy that can maybe turn around a sorry-ass franchise.

He's turn into the Baron Davis of the Browns, except there was no Kyrie Irving attached to him.

Rob said:

It'd be tough for the Browns to use a 2nd rounder on a guy that's 5 years away. Maybe if we had an older, established QB and were already contenders it would make more sense.

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Five years? That is a hyperbole for sure. Yes Mahomes is a bit of a project, although he has more experience than Trubisky, but I am sure he will be ready to at least take snaps by year 2. You can easily argue Mahomes has the best combo of arm talent, size and mobility in the entire group. Is he a risk? Could he bust? Yes. But none of the qbs in this years draft are top notch prospects or for sure top 20 NFL starting qbs. It is not out of the question at all that Mahomes ends up being the best of the bunch.


Very few on this board were high on Dak at the this time last year and tha was BEFORE the DUI. Looking back we probably underestimated his arm talent and mobility and quick decision making.
How many people here were screaming for the Browns to take Carr?

I am not saying Mahomes is Carr. I am saying he is def worth a deep investigation and real consideration in the second round, which is his most likely landing spot.

ajz20 said:

Five years? That is a hyperbole for sure. Yes Mahomes is a bit of a project, although he has more experience than Trubisky, but I am sure he will be ready to at least take snaps by year 2. You can easily argue Mahomes has the best combo of arm talent, size and mobility in the entire group. Is he a risk? Could he bust? Yes. But none of the qbs in this years draft are top notch prospects or for sure top 20 NFL starting qbs. It is not out of the question at all that Mahomes ends up being the best of the bunch.


Very few on this board were high on Dak at the this time last year and tha was BEFORE the DUI. Looking back we probably underestimated his arm talent and mobility and quick decision making.
How many people here were screaming for the Browns to take Carr?

I am not saying Mahomes is Carr. I am saying he is def worth a deep investigation and real consideration in the second round, which is his most likely landing spot.

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I wont lie, I do like Mahomes' game, a lot. The kid has the tools, toughness and a cannon for an arm. The main area that concerns me the most are his awkward and down right awful mechanics. I posted an article a few pages back that really focused in that flaw. He throws with all arm, literally. Now, I am no QB coach and I have no idea if it is correctable.

Davis Webb is the guy i want after drafting defense with first few picks. He is such a natural thrower. He can make all the throws from the pocket. How is he not a better prospect than what Jared Goff was?

I love everything about the thought of Jimmy G...except for the fact that he has one year left on his contract. I don't understand why people aren't talking more about that. Giving up a 1st round pick, or the equivalent of a first round pick, and having the guy leave after 1 year (or 2 if they franchise him)..is a fire-able offense. I believe in the guys running the ship, but nothing the Browns have ever done makes me think a young and talented QB would want to be here long term. So much risk. So much potential for reward though.

PFF on Jimmy G. potential landing destinations.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/pr...ocial&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=nfl

Also found an interesting tidbit inside that I haven't seen before that most likely shows how Browns value picks.
https://harvardsportsanalysis.wordpress.com/2011/11/30/how-to-value-nfl-draft-picks/

Very very insightful piece from PFF on how the Browns value their picks and how their analytic structure projects their view of Jimmy G's value. In silly season, this should be treated as just the opposite. The article has San Fran and Chicago as the two other potential suitors, FWIW.

The Browns’ analytical approach can actually be pretty easily determined (besides what value they place on Garoppolo), because their current Director of Research and Strategy, Kevin Meers, wrote an article several years ago that took Jimmy Johnson’s famous draft trade value chart and made some much needed updates. He uses Pro Football Reference’s Career Approximate Values (CAV) to determine what each pick’s true value is, and while that’s not a perfect way to determine player value, it gives us insight as to how the Browns approach the draft and this potential trade.

Jimmy Garoppolo was the 62nd pick in the 2014 draft, and in this year’s draft, the Browns hold the first, 12th, 33rd, 50th, and 65th picks, while the Patriots have the 32nd, 64th, and 96th picks in the first three rounds (the Patriots potentially have a compensatory third-round pick acquired in the Jamie Collins trade). Initial reports/sources stated the Patriots wanted compensation similar to what the Eagles received in the Sam Bradford trade—a first and fourth-round pick. Considering the Browns have two first-round picks, they have the ammunition to make this happen, and also considering that the Patriots don’t have a fourth-round pick in the 2018 draft, the 12th overall pick and a fourth-round pick next year is in line with what New England wants.

However, I don’t see this scenario happening, as the Browns’ analytical approach covets draft picks, and if that fourth-round pick Cleveland trades is near the top of the round, that package is the equivalent of the fourth overall pick in the draft, based on the chart. Simply put, increasing the value of Garoppolo 58 spots in the draft based on six quarters of play is unlikely. A more likely scenario of the first- and fourth-round picks playing out is if the teams swap first-round picks, which places Garoppolo’s value at the No. 33 pick. Any conversation that starts with a straight first and fourth for Garoppolo won’t have legs when it comes to the Browns.

Another popular trade scenario is trading two second-round picks for Garoppolo. If the Browns trade both of their later second-round picks in 2017 (pick 50) and in 2018 (not set, but assume 50 again), that’s valuing Garoppolo as the 10th overall pick—another unlikely trade scenario. If the Patriots were to throw in their third-round pick (perhaps the compensatory pick they got in the Collins trade), that puts the value of Garoppolo as a late first-round pick, and closer to that No. 33 slot, like in the previous scenario.

Again, we have no idea how the Browns value Garoppolo, and a trade between the two teams will heavily rely on that, but expect the value of the Patriots’ backup to be closer to No. 33 than No. 12, and therefore a package deal that ends up with the Browns holding both their first-round picks and parting with some second-round picks in exchange for Garoppolo and another later-round pick.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pr...ocial&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=nfl

Don't let the value of draft picks get in the way, the Jimmy Garoppolo hype train stops for no one.

ajz20 said:

How many people here were screaming for the Browns to take Carr?

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Whelp, at the time b00bie would chase every positive post about Carr with a post smashing his mechanics and the spread system he played in. I had a few positive posts, then it felt like wasted words after a while. Mind you the reason Carr didn't get much love was Bortles rising up the board with an existing Bridgewater supporters group. Carr was often a side conversation to the bigger "Teddy vs. Johnny" debate. B00bie has toned it down since then and the board overall has a less myopic view of prospects.

One reason I keep going back to aggressively pursuing Garoppolo is the lack of veteran in the QB room. Kessler and a second-tier rookie without a bridge quarterback might look good on a draft value chart, but it puts tons of pressure on the QB coach to get someone ready to lead the offense fast. How many QB projects can one 53 man roster carry?

The key will be negotiations of a contract extension before the trade is finalized. If Garoppolo commits to a contract, the risk becomes monetary rather than assets.

Pick6 said:

I love everything about the thought of Jimmy G...except for the fact that he has one year left on his contract. I don't understand why people aren't talking more about that. Giving up a 1st round pick, or the equivalent of a first round pick, and having the guy leave after 1 year (or 2 if they franchise him)..is a fire-able offense. I believe in the guys running the ship, but nothing the Browns have ever done makes me think a young and talented QB would want to be here long term. So much risk. So much potential for reward though.

PFF on Jimmy G. potential landing destinations.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/pr...ocial&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=nfl

Also found an interesting tidbit inside that I haven't seen before that most likely shows how Browns value picks.
https://harvardsportsanalysis.wordpress.com/2011/11/30/how-to-value-nfl-draft-picks/

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Both articles, but especially the draft-pick value chart, should be pinned atop the Browns section. That chart is what they are using & it'd behoove us to have that understanding across the section. The Browns are allowing Hue to make the call on the QB, but they're not going to allow him to frivolously decide what to give New England. I will be mad if the Browns give-up 1 or 12 and everything I've heard here and on the OBR leads me to believe that those picks aren't moving for JG. I also don't think the Browns are going to move those picks without the understanding that they'll have JG for at least the length of a rookie deal.

Similar to how being in a porno doesn't make you a porn star, being in the NFL doesn't make you a veteran.

Garoppolo, despite having three years under his belt, is still a project. An extremely costly project that'll set us back a couple early draft picks and roughly $20-30 million guaranteed right off the bat.

CosmoKramer said:

Similar to how being in a porno doesn't make you a porn star, being in the NFL doesn't make you a veteran.

Garoppolo, despite having three years under his belt, is still a project. An extremely costly project that'll set us back a couple early draft picks and roughly $20-30 million guaranteed right off the bat.

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Just can't agree there. There's evidence on film that he has played well against NFL defense's. Sunday is the most important day of the so week, but Garoppolo went to work the other days too.

While some people like pointing to failed trades of talented backup QBs, there are examples of great successes...

http://www.seahawks.com/news/2015/03/02/date-matt-hasselbeck-acquired-trade-packers

While I do agree the best way to improve the Browns is through the draft rather than free agency, fans have been so entrenched in that mantra they forgot about another asset: Astronomical cap space that gets caught in a Catch - 22. The Browns are used for leverage in free agency for bigger deals, but the player rarely takes the high offer from our franchise.

Trading intelligently for a player at the end of his rookie deal - Jamie Collins - has already worked once. It worked because the Browns could negotiate and perhaps slightly overpay without just being used as leverage. Letting the cap space rot on the vine and playing the draft like a slot machine assuredly won't work.

Randolphkeys said:

Just can't agree there. There's evidence on film that he has played well against NFL defense's. Sunday is the most important day of the so week, but Garoppolo went to work the other days too.

While some people like pointing to failed trades of talented backup QBs, there are examples of great successes...

http://www.seahawks.com/news/2015/03/02/date-matt-hasselbeck-acquired-trade-packers

While I do agree the best way to improve the Browns is through the draft rather than free agency, fans have been so entrenched in that mantra they forgot about another asset: Astronomical cap space that gets caught in a Catch - 22. The Browns are used for leverage in free agency for bigger deals, but the player rarely takes the high offer from our franchise.

Trading intelligently for a player at the end of his rookie deal - Jamie Collins - has already worked once. It worked because the Browns could negotiate and perhaps slightly overpay without just being used as leverage. Letting the cap space rot on the vine and playing the draft like a slot machine assuredly won't work.

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And I don't agree Garoppolo's 2 starts and 94 passes make him a veteran, yet Kessler's 8 starts and 195 passes make him a project.

For every Matt Hasselback there's 2 Kevin Kolbs and a Matt Cassel. I'm not interested in sinking high picks on that gamble.

CosmoKramer said:

And I don't agree Garoppolo's 2 starts and 94 passes make him a veteran, yet Kessler's 8 starts and 195 passes make him a project.

For every Matt Hasselback there's 2 Kevin Kolbs and a Matt Cassel. I'm not interested in sinking high picks on that gamble.

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But you're ok with sinking high picks on the draft which is just as much of a gamble?

To the person who asked about Carr- I wanted him at 4. When we traded up to 22, I thought it was for Carr.

Mahomes has me crushing the same way. 33? In a heartbeat.

Huber. said:

But you're ok with sinking high picks on the draft which is just as much of a gamble?

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Yes, because draft picks have the added bonus of being cost controlled for at least the first three years.

Acquiring a QB is always a gamble- acquiring Garoppolo has the added bonus of costing multiple picks and he'll immediately come at a much higher salary.