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Racial Tension in the U.S.

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Where should the thread go from here?

  • Racial Tension in the U.S.

    Votes: 16 51.6%

  • Extremist Views on the U.S.

    Votes: 2 6.5%

  • Mending Years of Racial Stereotypes.

    Votes: 2 6.5%

  • Protest Culture.

    Votes: 1 3.2%

  • Racist Idiots in the News.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Other

    Votes: 10 32.3%
  • Total voters
    31
The Human Q-Tip said:
It's elevating race over other factors that actually are more important, which gives it an important it does not deserve. And it serves no useful purpose other than to start looking at rights and obligations as belonging to groups rather than individuals. Why not simply say "everyone deserves to be treated equally regardless of their race, and to the extent that happens in a situation, we should condemn it and try to fix it?"



Sure there is. You may not agree with it, but the argument is there. For example, I think Barack Obama had it easier than some white kid growing up in the slums of Appalachia. Or a poor Hispanic kid growing up in an L.A. barrio.



Sure there. And a lot of them aren't minorities. So what?



"Oh my goodness, poor white people."

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vD1UTka3I0

I honestly cannot fathom how people who supposedly care about racial equality so flippantly disregard mistreatment or suffering of anyone because of their race. That's exactly what you get, though, when you look at people as members of a race rather than as individuals.
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But once Obama became President was he just accepted as President or did people say, "This guy must be from Africa." Like he was super privileged in the school he went to in his upbringing and it didn't matter.

Meanwhile you got Ted Cruz has legit ?'s about his nationality, but he looks white enough so no one cares. Most people think he was eligible, but this was not in fact ever settled! Wow
 
Cavatt said:
It's police training. That is what i want.
Click to expand...

Great -- I agree. I don't have a freaking clue about what that has to do with "privilege", though. Everyone, regardless of race, deserves to be treated fairly by the police.

Jeff Sessions just decided not to implement guidelines that were going to help police departments in these areas that departments actually wanted.
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Something is missing from that argument. Why can't those police departments implement whatever guidelines they want themselves?

And I'm not saying there should never be federal guidelines, either. But the idea that the feds not implementing guidelines for a department prevents the department from doing so on its own makes no sense.
 
The Human Q-Tip said:
Great -- I agree. I don't have a freaking clue about what that has to do with "privilege", though. Everyone, regardless of race, deserves to be treated fairly by the police.



Something is missing from that argument. Why can't those police departments implement whatever guidelines they want themselves?

And I'm not saying there should never be federal guidelines, either. But the idea that the feds not implementing guidelines for a department prevents the department from doing so on its own makes no sense.
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How do you train a bunch of white belts to be black belts without a blackbelt to lead them. This is the blind leading the blind using old boy police tactics from forever ago. If you don't know how entrenched an organization can get, I guess you have never worked for some old guy who don't like computers.

I'd rather FBI type training go on in police departments instead of the militarization of the police force giving them army tools without the training.

Also, the culture of the department may not allow it. These are guys who rely on each other for safety and like the military they are dug in on some things. They not listen to someone, even a chief if they don't respect him. If they have to do it, they will.

Jeff sessions seems dumb to me beyond me thinking he is a racist. His policies and outlook are failed old bullshit. Same shit different day.
 
Cavatt said:
But once Obama became President was he just accepted as President or did people say, "This guy must be from Africa." Like he was super privileged in the school he went to in his upbringing and it didn't matter.

Meanwhile you got Ted Cruz has legit ?'s about his nationality, but he looks white enough so no one cares. Most people think he was eligible, but this was not in fact ever settled! Wow
Click to expand...

Honest to God, you would not believe the number of Birthers who were freaked out about Cruz. Yet you are convinced that simply did not happen because white people are racist.

I've argued with those nutbags about jus sanguinas and jus solis so much it made my head hurt. Heck, I'll do a quick google....Here you go: Ted Cruz Natural Born Citizen

https://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=AwrBT9aNS.1YofkAIIJXNyoA;_ylc=X1MDMjc2NjY3OQRfcgMyBGZyA3lmcC10BGdwcmlkA0plaHBzVkRRVHRpU1dXRHM5ejRLTEEEbl9yc2x0AzAEbl9zdWdnAzMEb3JpZ2luA3NlYXJjaC55YWhvby5jb20EcG9zAzAEcHFzdHIDBHBxc3RybAMwBHFzdHJsAzQzBHF1ZXJ5A3RlZCUyMGNydXolMjBub3QlMjBuYXR1cmFsJTIwYm9ybiUyMGNpdGl6ZW4EdF9zdG1wAzE0OTE5NDc0MTA-?p=ted cruz not natural born citizen&fr2=sb-top&fr=yfp-t&fp=1

I did another search for Ted Cruz Natural Born Citizen Free Republic, which is probably the core website for a lot of hard core Trump types. Seems to be a huge number of threads about it.

https://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=AwrBT7STT.1YP.YAeL1XNyoA;_ylc=X1MDMjc2NjY3OQRfcgMyBGZyA3lmcC10BGdwcmlkA1dYYWdPMkZIUUVXdUFfaGRQclJQbkEEbl9yc2x0AzAEbl9zdWdnAzAEb3JpZ2luA3NlYXJjaC55YWhvby5jb20EcG9zAzAEcHFzdHIDBHBxc3RybAMwBHFzdHJsAzYxBHF1ZXJ5A3RlZCUyMGNydXolMjBub3QlMjBuYXR1cmFsJTIwYm9ybiUyMGNpdGl6ZW4lMjBmcmVlJTIwcmVwdWJsaWMEdF9zdG1wAzE0OTE5NDc0NzU-?p=ted cruz not natural born citizen free republic&fr2=sb-top&fr=yfp-t&fp=1

Heck it was the exact same crew of loonies -- Ann Coulter, etc..
 
Cavatt said:
How do you train a bunch of white belts to be black belts without a blackbelt to lead them. This is the blind leading the blind using old boy police tactics from forever ago. If you don't know how entrenched an organization can get, I guess you have never worked for some old guy who don't like computers.

I'd rather FBI type training go on in police departments instead of the militarization of the police force giving them army tools without the training.

Also, the culture of the department may not allow it. These are guys who rely on each other for safety and like the military they are dug in on some things. They not listen to someone, even a chief if they don't respect him. If they have to do it, they will.

Jeff sessions seems dumb to me beyond me thinking he is a racist. His policies and outlook are failed old bullshit. Same shit different day.
Click to expand...

That doesn't make any sense. You were mentioning the implementation of guidelines that you claimed departments actually wanted, and nothing in your response addressed that point.

I can also tell you that if a Department requests FBI training, they can get it. They already get it. Departments send their officers to the FBI Academy all the time. If a PD wants to get DOJ attorneys to come in there and speak to their officers, they'll do it.

So exactly what are you talking about? Consent decrees?
 
bob2the2nd said:
as some one that lives in hickville USA you bet your ass this exists. For fly fucks sake the KKK still holds rallys in towns not 20 minutes from where I live. You dont think I dont get treated differently than my black neighbors by the police? HA!

Jesus christ I live in maryland one of the holds of liberalism and I see white privilege applied pretty much every week, especially by cops.
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With respect, it is not privilege to be treated as you should be treated. Privilege is to receive special benefits. It sounds like your black neighbors are being mistreated and the police should be held accountable for that by the whole community...white, black, other. Don't consider humane treatment as a privilege and attack it. Consider inhumane treatment as unacceptable and attack that.
KKK rallys have nothing to do with the police and are not related to white privilege. They are a bunch of idiots exercised free speech that is very distasteful, much like half the stuff you will find on EAYOR threads in this site.

We should all demand that everyone is treated with respect by authorities...as much as possible with consideration of officer safety.
In 5 plus decades in numerous locations in and out of Ohio I have never been given a special privilege by the police as far as I know. I have been treated badly and dishonestly on 4 occasions that I remember.
 
Whittaker said:
We should all demand that everyone is treated with respect by authorities...as much as possible with consideration of officer safety.
Click to expand...

I do not think the "white privilege" meme is limited to treatment by police officers. I think that's the easy one that is used as an example by those seeking to support the whole "privilege" mindset, but as a practical matter in college campuses and elsewhere, it is used much more broadly than that.
 
bob2the2nd said:
as some one that lives in hickville USA you bet your ass this exists. For fly fucks sake the KKK still holds rallys in towns not 20 minutes from where I live. You dont think I dont get treated differently than my black neighbors by the police? HA!

Jesus christ I live in maryland one of the holds of liberalism and I see white privilege applied pretty much every week, especially by cops.
Click to expand...
that's weird. in Kentucky. officers have no problem taking troublemakers up to the strip mines in the middle of the knight and beating the shit out of them.

We had a road called N***** hollar. no black people lived or ever lived there. Noone like the family that originally settled there and the name stuck

Companies wont hire people based on their family name etc. It isn't as bad as it was in the eighties

And this isn't an attempt to deny racism. or pretend it doesn't exist.. It just whites just like any other race are prejudice against their own just as they are with any other race

Which is why I say attack the definitive issues with definitive solutions.

If someone isn't renting to people because they don't fit a racial profile or a bank isn't lending to people because of a zip code. then those people should face consequences.
 
The Human Q-Tip said:
It's elevating race over other factors that actually are more important, which gives it an important it does not deserve. And it serves no useful purpose other than to start looking at rights and obligations as belonging to groups rather than individuals. Why not simply say "everyone deserves to be treated equally regardless of their race, and to the extent that happens in a situation, we should condemn it and try to fix it?"
Click to expand...

It's not though. No one is saying that white people are all automatically elevated above everyone else. But all things being equal, race is still a factor in this country.

Sure there is. You may not agree with it, but the argument is there. For example, I think Barack Obama had it easier than some white kid growing up in the slums of Appalachia. Or a poor Hispanic kid growing up in an L.A. barrio.
Click to expand...

So because there are also poor white people we'll ignore the country's history of racism and the effect it has on the socio-economic status of races across the country? We're just gonna ignore all that and pretend everything's dandy? You're gonna honestly sit there and say it isn't easier being white in America? Throwing in a "not necessarily" is intellectually dishonest.

Barack Obama did have it easier than a lot of people, but he had it harder than a lot of his peers I bet. And he had more hurdles to jump as a black politician than his white counterparts. For instance, as stated before, the Ted Cruz shit DOES NOT excuse the fact that the Birther Movement is and was racist. Pretending it had nothing to do with race is, simply put, stupid. Ted Cruz was born in Canada. We know that because he says so and the records prove it. So they latch onto the conspiracy theory that he isn't American. This does not excuse the way our first black president was treated with NO evidence.
 
-Akronite- said:
But all things being equal, race is still a factor in this country.
Click to expand...

Then things weren't equal.

In the end though, if something isn't equal, cool, let's talk fixes. But to say we expect what everyone else gets, cause that's equal, but oh there's race issues, so we should get a little more, cause, you didn't realize your privilege. No. That's ending in something inequal. There is no amount of inequality that will solve inequality.
 
There is a fine line between Ignore and dwell.
History teaches us alot of lessons. Awareness is the best chance to avoid the same mistakes of the past.
Ignoring or acknowledging progress and pretending that each new generation doesnt have it easier than the prior generation doesnt serve anyone either.
Why not focus on things that can Unite instead of divide.
Utilize history to become aware that the same tools used to place obstacles on black americans,
are the same tools being used on the poor in general
You can train train and train cultural diverse officers all you want but those assigned to low income and high crime areas are gonna to learn to identify possible criminals by the demographic committing the most crime.
Especially when those areas the minority is the majority.

Look at ferguson. The Black majority population had well over a decade to get involved in the local government and put their issues at the fore front.

Yet no one ran for office. How many of them enrolled to become police officers or applied to fill spots as they opened?

It isn't as if they tried these things and were prevented.

Black apathy has as much to do with what happened in ferguson as white racism.
 
Tornicade said:
There is a fine line between Ignore and dwell.
History teaches us alot of lessons. Awareness is the best chance to avoid the same mistakes of the past.
Ignoring or acknowledging progress and pretending that each new generation doesnt have it easier than the prior generation doesnt serve anyone either.
Why not focus on things that can Unite instead of divide.
Utilize history to become aware that the same tools used to place obstacles on black americans,
are the same tools being used on the poor in general
You can train train and train cultural diverse officers all you want but those assigned to low income and high crime areas are gonna to learn to identify possible criminals by the demographic committing the most crime.
Especially when those areas the minority is the majority.

Look at ferguson. The Black majority population had well over a decade to get involved in the local government and put their issues at the fore front.

Yet no one ran for office. How many of them enrolled to become police officers or applied to fill spots as they opened?

It isn't as if they tried these things and were prevented.

Black apathy has as much to do with what happened in ferguson as white racism.
Click to expand...

I would not attribute anything that happened in Ferguson to Black apathy. Black people care. But in some communities where poverty is systemic, they adopt criminal practice as opportunity. This is as true in white opioid rural as it is in black Crack urban.. When people have no hope, they are ripe for exploitation..

In Ferguson, the local government turned police into a revenue stream, in part to fund a broken city. But whatever the motive, they made a fundamentally stupid choice, which set up the potential for conflagration.. I am not saying we can't hold Michael Brown accountable for his actions, but I am saying this is a predictable result of a failed community.

Not to lose the thread, one vector that separates people of different races is the politicization of race, which serves the political organization, but does not serve the community. This is my fundamental problem with BLM. They ARE racist, because they see everything through the lens of race.

I am not saying people have to sacrifice their identity
For the greater good. But to keep a diverse community stable, everyone has to respect the other cultures in the room. That is becoming less common, as politicians and a drama oriented media play to our divisions.
 
CleveRocks said:
I would not attribute anything that happened in Ferguson to Black apathy. Black people care. But in some communities where poverty is systemic, they adopt criminal practice as opportunity. This is as true in white opioid rural as it is in black Crack urban.. When people have no hope, they are ripe for exploitation..

In Ferguson, the local government turned police into a revenue stream, in part to fund a broken city. But whatever the motive, they made a fundamentally stupid choice, which set up the potential for conflagration.. I am not saying we can't hold Michael Brown accountable for his actions, but I am saying this is a predictable result of a failed community.

Not to lose the thread, one vector that separates people of different races is the politicization of race, which serves the political organization, but does not serve the community. This is my fundamental problem with BLM. They ARE racist, because they see everything through the lens of race.

I am not saying people have to sacrifice their identity
For the greater good. But to keep a diverse community stable, everyone has to respect the other cultures in the room. That is becoming less common, as politicians and a drama oriented media play to our divisions.
Click to expand...
The majority of the Ferguson government ran unopposed in multiple uncontested elections.
Ive already fully outlined the demographic issues with ferguson including several of the points you just mentioned.

but at the end of the day. there are 14 thousand blacks in Ferguson out of 21 thousand people.

Yet after years (prior to the Michael brown incident) of the community accusing the politicians of being racist none of those 14 thousands made an effort to change anything by establishing representation.
 
Wrathe said:
Then things weren't equal.
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EXACTLY! Things aren't equal between races in this country. If two people grew up on the same street with the same income but one is white and one is black, they are still going to have different perspectives on life in this country because race is a factor.

In the end though, if something isn't equal, cool, let's talk fixes.
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As if people don't? You keep saying this as if nobody has presented solutions when racial problems come up.

But to say we expect what everyone else gets, cause that's equal, but oh there's race issues, so we should get a little more, cause, you didn't realize your privilege. No. That's ending in something inequal. There is no amount of inequality that will solve inequality.
Click to expand...

I don't know what this is referring to. I assume affirmative action or something? Nobody has proposed anything here that aligns with this defense.
 
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