• Changing RCF's index page, please click on "Forums" to access the forums.

Chief Wahoo Discussion

Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Should Chief Wahoo Go?


  • Total voters
    162
Status
Not open for further replies.
You're all a bunch of idiots.

This won't end well with majority Indians fans. It's going to get very dirty before it gets wiped clean.

I for one will wear my Wahoo gear until it's time for new gear, then ill buy new Wahoo gear sold somewhere. I won't let AZ and Mr Orange win.
 
Do you feel pride in this country?

No. That ship sailed off long ago....

I don't necessarily feel guilt for the genocide of Native Americans, because yeah I didn't do that myself. But it is a part of our history that I take into account rather than just going welp not my problem.

Getting rid of chief wahoo solves NOTHING.



In what way does this honor anybody? That's such a bullshit argument.

In what way does sweeping it under the rug? We see things differently, and that's OK.



Would everyone please stop declaring victory like we're in fucking middle school. Jesus, Orange and now this. Grow up.

There are a few people "declaring victory" and I'm not one of them.

Plugging your ears and yelling "IT'S NOT RACIST UNLESS I SAY SO" isn't convincing in the least.

I'm certainly not doing this either. You say it's racist, I say it's not and I find it laughable.
 
You can rate my post whatever you wish. Still doesn't answer my question. Why do the Florida Seminole tribal leaders get to speak on behalf of all Seminoles, including the ones in Oklahoma that have openly been against Florida States name?

https://www.thenation.com/article/florida-state-seminoles-champions-racist-mascots/

The agreement is with the Florida Seminole Tribal Council and not the Seminole Nation. The majority of Seminoles don’t even live in Florida. They live in Oklahoma, one of the fruits of the Seminole Wars, the Indian Removal Act and The Trail of Tears. These Oklahoma Seminoles—who, remember, are the majority—oppose the name. On October 26, 2013, the Seminole Nation of Oklahoma’s governing body passed a resolution that read in part, “The Seminole Nation condemns the use of all American Indian sports team mascots in the public school system, by college and university level and by professional teams.”

I just don't see the point in conversing with someone who is admittedly just playing devil's advocate.

The differences are very obvious to me. If they truly aren't to you, I doubt they ever will be regardless of what I say.
 
No. That ship sailed off long ago....

So like you had pride but now it's gone? Off-topic but I'm curious.

Getting rid of chief wahoo solves NOTHING.

Well it solves the problem of a racist caricature portraying and exploiting an oppressed minority as a brand. It's not exactly solving climate change but since the president doesn't believe in that we gotta find small victories somewhere. :chuckle:

In what way does sweeping it under the rug? We see things differently, and that's OK.

Yep. You say sweeping under the rug, I say moving forward.

There are a few people "declaring victory" and I'm not one of them.

"The jig is up, bub."

I'm certainly not doing this either. You say it's racist, I say it's not and I find it laughable.

"that isn't racist unless I choose to say it is"

The difference here ACTUALLY, is that I say it's racist based on something rather than just saying "well I don't think it's racist." Once again, how is Chief different from Little Black Sambo?
 
I just don't see the point in conversing with someone who is admittedly just playing devil's advocate.

The differences are very obvious to me. If they truly aren't to you, I doubt they ever will be regardless of what I say.
At this point I'm not playing devils advocate. If you're going to mock my posts and deem them "funny" then I want to know your thoughts on the link I posted. Because I think it would lead to an interesting discussion. You're the one that made the statement the two are completely different, I offered my opinion as to why it isn't necessarily and a link to help support.

Not all Seminoles approve of the Florida State name. Not all Irish-Catholics approve of the Notre Dame name. What makes the situations different?
 
Should every American feel guilty for the hundreds of thousands of innocent Japanese killed & presently affected by the WW2 A-bombs?

I feel bad for the innocent, but I do not for one second feel guilty over something that happened nearly 50 years before my birth that I had no control, say, etc. in.

Same goes for the Native Americans. I feel badly for how they were slaughtered from their land but I don't feel guilty because the people that did it shared my skin color.

In any case, the logo shouldn't be changed on the merit of guilt, but rather on the merit of if it is racist or not
 
At this point I'm not playing devils advocate. If you're going to mock my posts and deem them "funny" then I want to know your thoughts on the link I posted. Because I think it would lead to an interesting discussion. You're the one that made the statement the two are completely different, I offered my opinion as to why it isn't necessarily and a link to help support.

Not all Seminoles approve of the Florida State name. Not all Irish-Catholics approve of the Notre Dame name. What makes the situations different?

I already told you why they're different.

The Irish Catholics are the ones using the logo depicting themselves! If people want to fight that, fine. But that's just an internal battle within the Irish Catholic community.

The Seminoles/Indians/whatever, even if you get permission, it's basically like saying "I can use the "n" word because my black friend said I could."
 
I already told you why they're different.

The Irish Catholics are the ones using the logo depicting themselves! If people want to fight that, fine. But that's just an internal battle within the Irish Catholic community.

The Seminoles/Indians/whatever, even if you get permission, it's basically like saying "I can use the "n" word because my black friend said I could."

So I agree with Irish Catholic, but you are way off base on Seminoles.

Seminole is not slang, its the name of the tribe. And it wasnt just some random black guy, but the Chief of the tribe giving permission after the tribe voted on it.

Your argument with Seminole equalling N Word and a Chief equalling a friend giving permission is so off base it makes it difficult to debate you one way or the other,.

And for the record, I could care less if Chief Wahoo goes away, I am an Cleveland sports fan no matter the logo or team name, but I cant read such a ridiculous comparison.
 
And for the record, I could care less if Chief Wahoo goes away, I am an Cleveland sports fan no matter the logo or team name, but I cant read such a ridiculous comparison.

Just how much less could you care, Lee?

giphy.gif
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lee
So I agree with Irish Catholic, but you are way off base on Seminoles.

Seminole is not slang, its the name of the tribe. And it wasnt just some random black guy, but the Chief of the tribe giving permission after the tribe voted on it.

Your argument with Seminole equalling N Word and a Chief equalling a friend giving permission is so off base it makes it difficult to debate you one way or the other,.

And for the record, I could care less if Chief Wahoo goes away, I am an Cleveland sports fan no matter the logo or team name, but I cant read such a ridiculous comparison.

Clearly I was being hyperbolic, but I felt it was necessary with some obvious points being ignored.

I agree with you, and honestly don't know much about the level of backlash against the Seminole mascot. I live in Ohio, not Florida. Obviously, the Seminole nation does not have to agree with every decision their Chief makes. If the outcry is large enough, yes, I'd agree they should get rid of it. However, with the blessing of the Chief, and a majority of the nation, I don't see any problem with keeping it.

The problem with Chief Wahoo is 1) it's a caricature, and 2) the term Indian is an ignorant slang term.

I apologize for the hyperbolic nature of my previous post, but I'm truly baffled by the people who try to equate Chief Wahoo with the Fighting Irish, or try to claim there's nothing racist about a Red Sambo.
 
I don't think anyone is asking white people that they need to feel guilty about Wahoo, or slavery, or anything, but hiding behind things like "I never owned slaves" "I never killed Native Americans" is missing the point.

Structural racism is real in America, though it can be very hard to see for a white suburbanite, who thinks that everyone has the same opportunity. But, like the woman in my office who is afraid to ride the bus because there are black people on it, she fails to understand that that bus ride for her is what minorities can feel everywhere in America. The structural racism exists, maybe not intentionally, but you can feel it and see it. Whether it's Chief Wahoo, or calling black males "thugs" or casting whites to play parts written for Asian-Americans....it may seem like minor stuff to a white person, a harmless thing, but when it's consistently in the media, in the high school locker room, movies, job interview, or the racist insult from a drunken mob of white bros... you may start to believe you are inferior. (you are not). White people are terrifying in a large group, especially if you are a minority.

And that is the issue with Wahoo. Was it created specifically to be hurtful? Probably not. Are you wearing it because you find Native Americans inferior? Probably not. (I hope not) But by continuing to use a funny looking mascot of a minority race of people, who, let's be honest, have not been treated well by European-American's....you are contributing to the structural racism, contributing to the ridiculous idea that someone is inferior because of the melanin level in their skin. You may not think that way (and I certainly hope not) but subconsciously it has an effect. So why would you continue to support this? Why be the mob of white bros hurling an insult at a passerby? What are you trying to prove? What is more important, your fellow man, or your grandfather's history with a ball cap? Be bold my RCF friends. Stand up.

If you don't understand that today, it's ok. One day it may click for you. It did for me a few years back. I never understood it... it was a cartoon, what 's the big deal? But suddenly I realized it wasn't just about a cartoon. It's just another example of systematic oppression, the majority making a minority feel inferior, intentional or not. And by not changing it, it's more about power and stubbornness, and not being told what to do by the minority. Not relinquishing that power over the brown people. Well it's 2017, it's time to let go.

I feel great pride that the Indians are moving on from the Chief. With time, I think we all will.
 
I feel ZERO guilt. I was born here - it wasn't my choice to live here. ZERO GUILT. I, nor my family, had nothing to do with any slaughtering. I'm not sure where the correlation lies - the white skin? The fact I was born here and have stayed here?

Keeping the logo does more for honoring the Indians (Native Americans, whatever) than white-washing it from the history books like they want to do.

The jig is up, bub. It's not racist. You choose to see it as racist, and yes I choose to see it as what it is - a caricature and a logo of a sports team that isn't racist unless I choose to say it is if I'd like to step up and be a special interest group mouthpiece - but it's not.

Yes, please tell them how much you're honoring them while shaming others for feeling the guilt of generations past.

Very good argument.
 
I feel great pride that the Indians are moving on from the Chief. With time, I think we all will.
If I ever feel a sense of personal pride because a team I liked changed their logo, just take me out back and put me out of my misery.
 
@David.

I answered your question about the Fighting Irish a year ago below. My position on the Celtics and Fighting Irish thing hasn't changed. My post was a response to @Northstar equating the Celtics logo to the Indians logo as you have Notre Dame's.

I always found this to be a weak counter-argument to removing Chief Wahoo.

(1) Nobody complained about the Celtics logo, as you mentioned. So the argument really ends there. There's nobody to hear out if you put it that way. If Irish people aren't complaining about a leprechaun logo...what's to talk about?

(2) If the concern is that it's stereotypical towards the Irish by virtue of being a Leprechaun, you're talking about a group of people with a very different history and relationship with America (the Irish) as opposed to Native Americans.

It's a racist logo. I have zero attachment to it. I won't miss it. I don't usually wear sports apparel anyways, even to games... so I'm not really losing out on my wardrobe here.

It's a case where one of the "mobs" you refer to is right in thinking something is racist or wrong in some fashion.

Whether enough Native Americans in a specific area are bothered by it or not to please enough white people to let the logo go...IDGAF and am not going to get wrapped up into the debate. You have a cartoonish logo with stereotypical features on it that could easily be replaced with something that's not cartoonish and racist.

The end.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Rubber Rim Job Podcast Video

Episode 3-14: "Time for Playoff Vengeance on Mickey"

Rubber Rim Job Podcast Spotify

Episode 3:14: " Time for Playoff Vengeance on Mickey."
Top